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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Damned if I do.....

158 replies

Everybodyleaves · 04/08/2014 00:29

Ok, lawyer has just advised me to cease STBXH alternate w/end access due to many issues pending resolution (hopefully over next few weeks/couple of months). Last resort I'm afraid.

Knowing it would therefore be a while before DCs overnights resumed, earlier today I asked STBXH for details of the camping trip he had mentioned prior to all this blowing up as none had been forthcoming. He had been aware DCs were unlikely to be going yet had been talking about it with them on phone calls this week. It turned out to be starting tomorrow.

I then offered to let DCs go as a) it is a holiday for them with him b) it might be the last overnights for a long while as he can be VERY stubborn and c) thought it would be a nice gesture as aunts/cousins also going too (just found that out today too).

I asked for one condition to be met: that he agreed to return DCs to me when camping trip ended on Thursday (he was originally due to have then for 11 nights). He refused. He has previously not returned DCs to me when due to, hence my asking.

Many angry texts, calls and two confused and upset children later, he is blaming me for them not going.

Why do I even bother trying???

OP posts:
WaffleWiffle · 05/08/2014 01:43

Your children are not prizes to be given or taken away for good behaviour.

They have a right to a safe relationship with their dad. You are deliberately making that difficult

todayisnottheday · 05/08/2014 01:45

It's mentioned in your last thread. Where you also said you wanted him to agree to your rules during his contact time. Some of which were reasonable (sleeping arrangements) some not so. The dc won't understand why he couldn't agree because they are too young to understand the power play here which you are very much a part of. Removing overnight access for parenting differences is not ok. Ss are the people who deal with things like inappropriate accommodation - which they confirmed to you. I just don't get why you're using your children's access to their father to control him. I also don't get why you can't understand that a court is going to look very dimly on the whole thing - of both of you.

tisrainingagain · 05/08/2014 07:14

Why can't your ex get a mattress to put on the floor for the dc who doesn't sleep on the sofa bed? This is the part I don't understand. Does the OW have dc of her own?

The way I have understood this thread is that the OP has vetoed (for the moment pending a change in sleeping arrangements amongst other things) time spent in an environment with no beds. Not time spent with the dc's Dad. If I was that Dad and I knew that a mattress was coming between my dc and I, I would go out and buy one. Why doesn't he do that Confused?

Is he generally difficult? He and OW should sleep on the floor, not a 7 and 11 year old Angry.

It might be an issue for SS but what if they take an age to sort it out?

tisrainingagain · 05/08/2014 07:21

they live with me not him sounds like an irrelevant statement everybody as you had agreed to the 11 nights prior to various issues blowing up? Did you have other reservations about the 11 nights with your ex aside from the sleeping arrangements?

How do your dc view the whole thing?

tisrainingagain · 05/08/2014 07:27

Not so much agreed to his 11 nights as they must be part of his holiday contact?

Anyway the whole having to be away from your dc (for both parents) due to divorce must be incredibly painful. H and I have an almost non existent relationship now Sad, but the thought of not being with my dc (8, 10 and 12) for up to 50 % of the time is very very frightening Sad and means that I haven't instigated a separation (that and the thought of the acrimonious battle with h that may ensue).

Original poster
Everybodyleaves · 05/08/2014 08:23

Yes, he is generally difficult, stubborn, doesn't communicate at all/until last minute and is either completely insensitive or goes out of his way to make life bloody awkward. He has twisted situations and deliberately misled or lied to people (including me) to try and distance me from my (our) friends and his family who I was previously close with so I have little support. It is a control thing. He outright lies to the DCs about me: the one about me planning to marry my DP and move to the other end of the country to take them away from him and his family being my personal "favourite" -DCs were distraught, funnily enough Angry. That isn't remotely an option and I would never do that to DCs.

He verbally and emotionally abused me for years and injured me once when he was drunk (I told him then and there if there was a repeat, I was leaving him). He gas lighted me, belittled and controlled me until I lost myself and all my self confidence. I have rediscovered most of that now.

I am trying my very best to be fair with him over DCs and as I said I am following my lawyers advice because I am out of ideas / options and what he has put me (and by extension, our DCs) through this year cannot continue any longer. I haven't put everything on MN and don't plan to. Yes, I have other reservations. Sometimes you have to make VERY hard choices in the short term to resolve issues long term. I don't do this lightly.

Any "rules" I want agreed are things HE would have insisted upon previously. I once got a letter from his lawyer because I put DCs lunch in the same lunch bag and the school sent me a wee note explaining the classes came down at different times (I didn't know that), I'm not kidding.

tisraining I haven't reported him to SW/SS as things are bad enough already, he would go apeshit. He refuses to do anything I ask, regardless of what it is and whether it would improve the situation.

My OP was I'm very much damned if I do, damned if I don't. I was genuinely trying to put some contact back in for DCs as I know how difficult things will be over the next few weeks for everyone.

Thanks for all your comments / opinions.

OP posts:
Lweji · 05/08/2014 09:13

me planning to marry my DP and move to the other end of the country to take them away from him and his family

That sounds like a good plan, actually.

I take a very dim view of contact for the sake of contact.

And if contact (via skype) is ok between exH and DS is mostly because I have cut it short when I thought it was damaging DS.
I have certainly prevented supervised contact because I thought the whole drama that exH would create and the badmouthing and lies would be far more damaging.
Court hasn't disagreed.

I went to court asap after separating as I don't think private wars between parents help a lot. ATM I can reply to him saying that court has given me powers to decide on contact and he can't really complain.
Some people (and him) may consider me unfair and a bitch, but DS has a stable life, is doing very well at school and socially despite his shyness.
And I have a much more peaceful life, which is also a benefit to DS.

He may kick a lot initially, but I'd rather involve social services and court than try to fight this battle alone for my children.

Lweji · 05/08/2014 09:15

Sorry, prevented unsupervised contact.

PhallChops · 05/08/2014 09:20

todayisnottheday - Are you OP's ex? OP, you have acted spot-on, despite legal advice to the contrary, you attempted to get the kids the holiday but exH's intransigence ruined it for them. Their schooling is extremely important, if sleeping conditions are impacting on this then change it - Good call. As an ExH myself, it burns to hear some of the stories these so called "men" get up to.....

todayisnottheday · 05/08/2014 10:11

Phall, nope I just took the time to read the rest of the information available rather than leaping in with ill informed pats on the back.

Dc used in power struggling between exs is a major pet hate. If the ops ex was posting he'd get told exactly the same thing.

Original poster
Everybodyleaves · 05/08/2014 10:21

Lol. Thanks PhallChops Grin. I wondered that myself for a moment!!

The fact he was talking to DCs on the phone as if the camping trip was still happening made me angry rethink the camping part as DCs were so excited. (Yes, I know he was manipulating me via the DCs to do exactly that.) I tried to do the right thing by them by offering a compromise and had it (and verbal abuse via text) thrown back in my face.

I cannae win!!!

OP posts:
WaffleWiffle · 05/08/2014 10:29

everybodyleaves your children are the ones who cannot win in this power struggle.

Original poster
Everybodyleaves · 05/08/2014 10:48

wifflewaffle. My alternative is to carry on as is for another three years.

Sometimes you have to make a stand, even though you don't particularly like the consequences.

OP posts:
PhallChops · 05/08/2014 10:56

TINTD - Take your own advice and read the entire OP - I did! I too am dead against kids being used as pawns in the adult affair as it happened to me 15 years ago - My daughter lost....Sad

todayisnottheday · 05/08/2014 10:58

Not your only alternative. You are obviously not interested in listening to anything other than poor you posts so I'll leave you to it. Very sad situation for your dc.

todayisnottheday · 05/08/2014 10:59

Phal, what do you think I missed?

PhallChops · 05/08/2014 11:05

OP was advised to cease access
Kids were so excited about camping OP felt it would be harsh
OP decided camping OK, get some (quite sensible) info of ExP
ExP played the complete prat giving OP no option

If you think there are alternatives I'd be interested as to me it is binary - Continue access and things remain unchanged or cease access per Lawyer's advice.

DadofHarry · 05/08/2014 11:08

I have been in this situation, where my ex has stopped me seeing my son. It's an awful situation. Do not let your solicitor advise you in this way especially if it breaks any contact orders!

I presume he has PR and when your DC's are in his care they are his responsibility.

Sleeping on the floor is not great, certainly far from ideal but I can only presume that you both are not on good amicable terms. Have you suggested a z-bed, blow up beds for the kids? They aren't expensive.

Taking them on holiday would have been lovely. They could bond with their father and their relatives. You have deprived them of this. In the long term the hostility and controlling nature will only affect the happiness of your kids.

I have been to court over such issues and it will be seen in a bad light.

Have proper chat with their father, find some common ground i.e. your kids and just offer some solutions... you never know you may agreement.

DadofHarry · 05/08/2014 11:10

A solicitor advising you to deny contact with their father... is a poor excuse of a solicitor... get a new one!

todayisnottheday · 05/08/2014 11:14

Solicitors get paid. They get paid more when relationships are difficult. They get paid lots more if things deteriorate to the point where court is the only option. They don't have parenting training, relationship training, mediation training. They are rarely well versed in when and where S.S. are appropriate or C.A. In short they are a dreadful place to go for advice on access to dc. Great for legal, terrible (and often actively corrosive) for co parenting. These are children not property to be divided up.

tisrainingagain · 05/08/2014 11:15

Someone who is emotionally abusive is not going to listen to advice about z beds or want to find any kind of common ground. OP did not deny her dc their camping holiday, her ex did.

tisrainingagain · 05/08/2014 11:17

The other issues op does not want to talk about here must be big issues. I don't think it is about wanting to use the children as pawns.

MagnificentMaleficent · 05/08/2014 11:33

A father who cannot be arsed to ensure his children have somewhere to sleep, apart from the actual floor, does not deserve the sympathy he appears to be getting.

I cannot understand why so many posters are having a pop at the OP.

The ex is doing what he can to continue to try and control his exp and the dc. He doesn't care if he upsets them and seems to enjoy making the OP the bad guy particularly if he can upset the dc at the same time.

Yet she is the one who needs to parent better and put the dc first Hmm.

OP you sound like you are doing a grand job of trying to balance the expectations and the feelings of your DC with a twat of a father. So yes I will join in the back slapping.

I'm convinced some people on here just like to try and have a go at others to make themselves feel important Angry

PhallChops · 05/08/2014 11:38

Hear hear

Quitelikely · 05/08/2014 11:45

The father bought a sofa bed. But op wasn't happy because one of the children refused to sleep on it. So that meant one was still sleeping in the floor.

This is a disgrace. Yes he did this to you, did that to you but he wants to do right by his children. STOP interfering. You sound bitter. Let go of the past and let the children go to see their father. Drop the lawyers. If he was a risk to the children social services would be involved. You said they aren't. The court deemed him a good parent, hence the contact he was awarded.

You will be so much happier and so will your dc.