Help with friend/stalker situation

[ICanHearYou]

My friend is a gregarious, beautiful woman, talented artist, dancer, singer and teacher. She is currently abroad teaching performance arts to children.

She is in her mid to late 20's, we'll call her Sue

She has always had this slightly creepy older friend called Paul (NRN) who, from about 18months ago has started hanging around the same places as her, generally 'being around'.

On Tuesday I had Paul come round, just for a chat and because he was really depressed, he asked me quite calmly if I had heard anything from Sue and I told him she was doing really well and had met someone. He Flipped out. Started going on about how she had lied to him, he wasn't told anything and 'friends tell each other everything' that she wont even communicate to him about the website he has created for her (he is a web designer) and that it is upsetting him a lot.

This went on for some time and he told me that she had fancied him the first time they met and he missed a 'window of opportunity' to make her his and if he had been more forceful/direct then she would have loved him and they would have stayed together.

he is around 50.

I told him straight that I thought that was strange because she was off exploring the world and doing loads of stuff and he wanted someone to take to art-galleries with and so on. I didn't really understand how that would work out.

He then told me that his ex-wife was much younger than him and he had allowd her to have an 'open relationship' and this had worked really well for them, he took her to boyfriends houses and paid for everything and so on. I said he sounded more like a father figure and he got really upset.

Anyway so I spoke to Sue and said that I thought Paul was being a bit full-on about her and that actually I felt like him obsessing over her was stopping him leading his life and must be pretty weird for her.

She has stated that she never fancied him, never showed him any signs of that, that he invited her to a theatre date with friends and it ended up being the two of them and that was it. He is turning up at music nights she puts on and saying 'thank you for inviting me' to her and so on, basically he has made it so that everywhere she is, he will go.

Since she's left the country he has been attempting to contact her every single day, he will produce newspaper articles that he has found from the small Eastern European town where she is working that she is in and translate them and announce he is putting them on the website. She never asked him to build a website, doesn't really want one.

He will write on the website pretending to be her, she will then say 'well I would never say that' and give him different text to use. She admits she has been naive but she is a reasonable person and he is constantly telling her how normal it is that he takes an interest in her life.

She told him she had a tummy ache 2 months ago and he 'stayed up all night worrying' and looking up abortion clinics in Eastern-Europe. She just had a tummy ache.

He has told me that having her to 'care for' is the only thing stopping him going to sleep crying every night.

She then told me that he asked her repeatedly for her address and she of course turned him down. He then went online, got the address of the theatre school where she teaches and began sending her parcels.

These didn't make it to the theatre school and were sent all around the town before finding her. She was embarrassed by this so gave him her address (?)

He has since been sending her lots of little things, chocolates, poetry, an erotic short story and more recently he has sent her a mobile phone.

She took some money from him for a train ticket to Berlin (silly silly Sue) and she is keen to pay this back though has no money. I've told her I will pay it back to him on her behalf.

She wants to cut him out of her life (understandably) but he keeps following her everywhere. I told her to send me the mobile phone to return it to him and to record and destroy anything in future that he sends? Is this wise advice?

She said she might 'message him to tell him that she will never contact him again' I said to just not message him again ever and not tell him that.

Any advice?

Because otherwise it will hit him out of the blue - you two may have decided he is weird and a stalker but he doesn't know that and you now need to lay a paper trail but also give him a chance

Give him a chance?!

Amazed at some of the replies here with people falling over themselves trying to paint this creep as some sort of victim. [not just you Nerf, your post was one of many]

He is without doubt, a fucking creep. He knows that most women are too polite [read-conditioned to be 'nice' to men] to call him on his shit, so on he goes.

On no level, is his behavior 'normal' or acceptable. Typical that the women in this situation are being blamed for this and questioned about what they have done, no bloody wonder men get away with this shit when every fucked up thing they do ends up being the fault of the woman.

Eurgh.

You are a airing friend to Sue

Caring

Okay Ive given her my advice. I think she will struggle to write the letter but she needs to understand that without it she has no legal protection if/when he turns up on her doorstep 'demanding' to spend time with her.

hopefully it will all work out from here.

Why will she struggle to write the letter? Because he is a friend and she doesn't like hurting his feelings?

She needs to spell it out in a letter so there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. If she is uncomfortable with his attentions, I don't quite understand why this is difficult to do, I'd be itching to.

No because she doesn't like hurting anyones feelings. It doesn't come naturally to some people. Anyway I have spoken to her and she is going to write the letter in the next couple of days.

So she would rather someone sets up a webpage about her, someone intimidates her by turning up, sending her endless gifts, money, tries to contact her every single day, and cries for 2 days when she gets a tummy ache... but she doesn't want to upset him by telling him to stop? She should be sending the letter registered signed for delivery NOW. And I honestly think she should run the letter past you before she sends it. If it doesn't spell out without doubt she wants him to stop, she hasn't got a leg to stand on.

I'm a bit shocked by some of these responses and the victim blame going on here. He is stalking her and everyone is saying oh well she must have encouraged it. That's outrageous. Being polite to someone does not give them rights to behave like this, no more than it would give them a right to rape.

I really think she should be cataloguing all contact, gifts etc and reporting to the police now. The fact that she is frightened to come home should enough for them to take it seriously.

I don't think for one minute she has encouraged it, she just sounds like a nice person who thinks the best of people. However, there are some right nutjobs out there of which this bloke is one and she has to realise that and stop worrying about upsetting him but spell out the consequences of him carrying on. Some people unfortunately don't respond to 'nice'.

Yes I agree and so does she.

I think it is hard though when you have been so brow-beaten by someone, insane people are really persuasive.

She certainly struggles with asserting herself. Which is not that surprising with a man twice her age, who is apparently completely convinced his behaviour is normal. However, she needs not to see this as being aggressive, just completely firm about what she wants. And it must shut the conversation down, no possibility for him to come back with 'but you took my money', 'but you gave me text for the website, how can you say you want it shut down?' - those are verbal traps that won't do her any good. This is purely about what she wants and about having her rights respected. (Not asking for her rights, asserting them).

Creeps like this man choose women who are nice, and on the passive side. They trade on the fact that women are socialised to be grateful for male attention and feel obliged to respond politely and deferentially, even when what the woman wants to say is 'Get the fuck away from me you repellent, clammy-handed, mouthbreathing wankstain.'
They trade on the fact that they move in the same social circle and women are socialised to 'not make a fuss' - again, to submit and be nice to the creepy, predatory man rather than inconvenience or worry everyone else.
Though TBH once 'Sue' starts telling other people in the theatre group (is that what it is?) that she has had to take formal steps to prevent Creepo from stalking her, she will probably hear from at least a couple of other people that he's pestered and annoyed them, as well.