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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help with friend/stalker situation

137 replies

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 10:30

My friend is a gregarious, beautiful woman, talented artist, dancer, singer and teacher. She is currently abroad teaching performance arts to children.

She is in her mid to late 20's, we'll call her Sue

She has always had this slightly creepy older friend called Paul (NRN) who, from about 18months ago has started hanging around the same places as her, generally 'being around'.

On Tuesday I had Paul come round, just for a chat and because he was really depressed, he asked me quite calmly if I had heard anything from Sue and I told him she was doing really well and had met someone. He Flipped out. Started going on about how she had lied to him, he wasn't told anything and 'friends tell each other everything' that she wont even communicate to him about the website he has created for her (he is a web designer) and that it is upsetting him a lot.

This went on for some time and he told me that she had fancied him the first time they met and he missed a 'window of opportunity' to make her his and if he had been more forceful/direct then she would have loved him and they would have stayed together.

he is around 50.

I told him straight that I thought that was strange because she was off exploring the world and doing loads of stuff and he wanted someone to take to art-galleries with and so on. I didn't really understand how that would work out.

He then told me that his ex-wife was much younger than him and he had allowd her to have an 'open relationship' and this had worked really well for them, he took her to boyfriends houses and paid for everything and so on. I said he sounded more like a father figure and he got really upset.

Anyway so I spoke to Sue and said that I thought Paul was being a bit full-on about her and that actually I felt like him obsessing over her was stopping him leading his life and must be pretty weird for her.

She has stated that she never fancied him, never showed him any signs of that, that he invited her to a theatre date with friends and it ended up being the two of them and that was it. He is turning up at music nights she puts on and saying 'thank you for inviting me' to her and so on, basically he has made it so that everywhere she is, he will go.

Since she's left the country he has been attempting to contact her every single day, he will produce newspaper articles that he has found from the small Eastern European town where she is working that she is in and translate them and announce he is putting them on the website. She never asked him to build a website, doesn't really want one.

He will write on the website pretending to be her, she will then say 'well I would never say that' and give him different text to use. She admits she has been naive but she is a reasonable person and he is constantly telling her how normal it is that he takes an interest in her life.

She told him she had a tummy ache 2 months ago and he 'stayed up all night worrying' and looking up abortion clinics in Eastern-Europe. She just had a tummy ache.

He has told me that having her to 'care for' is the only thing stopping him going to sleep crying every night.

She then told me that he asked her repeatedly for her address and she of course turned him down. He then went online, got the address of the theatre school where she teaches and began sending her parcels.

These didn't make it to the theatre school and were sent all around the town before finding her. She was embarrassed by this so gave him her address (?)

He has since been sending her lots of little things, chocolates, poetry, an erotic short story and more recently he has sent her a mobile phone.

She took some money from him for a train ticket to Berlin (silly silly Sue) and she is keen to pay this back though has no money. I've told her I will pay it back to him on her behalf.

She wants to cut him out of her life (understandably) but he keeps following her everywhere. I told her to send me the mobile phone to return it to him and to record and destroy anything in future that he sends? Is this wise advice?

She said she might 'message him to tell him that she will never contact him again' I said to just not message him again ever and not tell him that.

Any advice?

OP posts:
GarlicAugustus · 01/08/2014 17:11

The website thing is impersonation. I'm not sure if this is an actual crime, if it's not with intent to defraud, but it should be taken down. For a direct approach, use this to find out where the website's hosted and contact the hosting company's admins explaining that it's fake and asking them to take it down.

Also ring 101, tell them the whole story, and take their advice.

Dunno why you got a hoard time on here. Neither of you have done anything wrong!

tribpot · 01/08/2014 17:19

OP I think you've used Paul's real name in your post at 16:38, you might want to ask Mumsnet to delete it.

Seriously do not involve yourself in getting the phone and money back to him, he will accuse you of 'splitting them up' and poisoning her against him. Just post the bloody things, pref direct from her country so that no-one else appears to be involved at all. She's got to post them to the UK anyway.

I'm assuming he owns this website which supposedly is run by her (and yes, this is seriously bizarre). It is likely it is hosted by a third party, which you should be able to find out from using WhoIs on the website address, i.e. here is the entry for Mumsnet. I would then contact the host and say the website is misrepresenting itself as belonging to your friend. This is in addition to asking him to close the site.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 17:45

Reported that post, thank you

OP posts:
RedRoom · 01/08/2014 17:46

I think that your friend needs to follow the advice about closing down the website, not you. She is the one that is being falsely represented, not you, so I'm not sure on what grounds you could officially claim to have grounds for the site to be removed. They might need a complaint from her ultimately, so best to save time by starting with her.

Sorry for assuming earlier that you already knew he was being weird.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 17:48

Oh yes I totally agree that anything done has to come from her.

However I think that anyway I can help her I should.

Some great advice here thanks all.

OP posts:
wannabestressfree · 01/08/2014 18:07

I think you are being a good friend and I would do the same. Two heads are better than one when dealing with stuff like this and you can confirm to her that what is happening isn't right.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 18:18

Thank you wannabe

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 01/08/2014 18:25

OP, I would get in touch with the National Stalking Helpline. They will take this seriously and will be able to advise you and your friend on the best course of action to take.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 19:29

I didn't know they existed, I will defintely call tomorrow!

OP posts:
CarryOnDancing · 01/08/2014 19:30

There's a lot of conflicting advice here which is understandable as thankfully not many of us have direct experience of stalking. I'd send Sue the link NotDavid has posted and talk to the professionals as this man will be unpredictable.

I agree strongly with the advice that you should not hand back the phone and money. There is absolutely no benefit to doing it but there is a risk as a pp has said-that he might blame you. Sue is then a flight away and you are right there-you don't know how unstable he is or might get.

What is making you think that is better than Sue just sending it direct?

CarryOnDancing · 01/08/2014 19:36

Oh and I also agree that the victim blaming isn't on at all. There's no way that on each occasion of being nice to him she could have known that it would accumulate in his mind to make them best friends/partners.

Even if she was leading him on merry dance, the second she says no he should back off. To not back off is sinister.

Being nice to someone at a social event isn't encouraging or provoking this behaviour. Think of all the people we chat to informally, friends of friends, we don't then find them hiding around corners.

Nerf · 01/08/2014 20:42

I think you need to start from the beginning with this (you plural) as it just doesn't seem fair to suddenly make accusations of stalking when he has not been given a clear message at all. Some people don't pick up easily - has she actually given a chance to accept that there is no future etc? She needs to email him saying 'dear x, I am very uncomfortable with the gifts and attention you give me. I thought I had made it clear that there will not be any romantic or close friendship between us and I am asking you to respect that. Please close the website, and I would ask you to leave me to enjoy my time away with no further contact. I am returning the phone and loan, naturally, and have donated other perishable gifts to local causes.'

Because otherwise it will hit him out of the blue - you two may have decided he is weird and a stalker but he doesn't know that and you now need to lay a paper trail but also give him a chance.

Meerka · 01/08/2014 20:52

They can't close the website down themselves... they have to get in touch with the website hoster or this creepy guy. Or the police, but they need to try the website hoster first who may or may not comply. The written Keep Away letter can say that she wants the website down now if the website hoster doesn't do anything. After that it's the police.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 21:11

She has told him that his obsession makes her uncomfortable

She has told him many times that they have no future etc.

Christ even I've told him that!

The man has serious, serious issues

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 01/08/2014 21:20

I don't think anyone has victim-blamed at all.

Yes, some PP, myself included, have said that Sue has not yet made it clear to Paul that she wants no further contact. This is in no way at all blaming Sue for Paul's creepy behaviour. (We all have the right to behave in a friendly and polite way to everyone we meet and to expect polite and friendly behaviour in return.) Sue has done nothing wrong in behaving in this way to Paul.

But before it is appropriate to accuse Paul of being a stalker and calling the police, (instead of just being a socially mal-adjusted misfit), Sue should spell out to Paul that contact is not wanted.

That way, Paul might stop contact (best outcome) or he might persist. But if he persists there is no room for doubt for him, the police the theatre group or anyone else that he the contact is unwanted by Sue.

Haffdonga · 01/08/2014 21:24

Oh god, another X post.

From what you said earlier. Ican't Sue's continued contact with Paul could have been interpreted by a socially obtuse loser as a willingness to be friends (e.g. giving him text for the website).

Haffdonga · 01/08/2014 21:28

And telling someone who wants to be a boyfriend that there is 'no future' doesn't exactly mean "I don't want to see or hear anything from you ever ever again again. Don't speak to me. Don't write to me." He might just think he's been friend-zoned.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 21:43

She refused to give him her address so he sent parcels to her work.

That is stalking

OP posts:
Nerf · 01/08/2014 21:48

So what advice do you want then? You've decided he's a stalker, you don't have any doubt, get in touch with authorities and tell them.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 21:52

I've had plenty of advice

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 01/08/2014 22:06

I don't know if it's stalking. Depends how she didn't give him her address. If she said 'No, I will not give you my address because I don't want you to ever write to me or send me anything. Leave me alone.' Then yes, clearly sending parcels is unwanted attention. But if she made an excuse in a vague, polite and kind way to avoid hurting his feelings then he could conceivably have convinced himself she didn't mean it.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 22:12

If someone doesn't give you their address you don't get a newspaper delivered from Eastern Europe so that you can see what they are doing and what they are up to.

I am amazed in anyone's world this is normal.

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 01/08/2014 22:14

No absolutely isn't normal. But for potential legal reasons it would seem sensible that Sue leaves no room for doubt.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 22:15

Where have we suggested any differently?

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 01/08/2014 22:17

Eh? I don't think you have. Confused