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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help with friend/stalker situation

137 replies

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 10:30

My friend is a gregarious, beautiful woman, talented artist, dancer, singer and teacher. She is currently abroad teaching performance arts to children.

She is in her mid to late 20's, we'll call her Sue

She has always had this slightly creepy older friend called Paul (NRN) who, from about 18months ago has started hanging around the same places as her, generally 'being around'.

On Tuesday I had Paul come round, just for a chat and because he was really depressed, he asked me quite calmly if I had heard anything from Sue and I told him she was doing really well and had met someone. He Flipped out. Started going on about how she had lied to him, he wasn't told anything and 'friends tell each other everything' that she wont even communicate to him about the website he has created for her (he is a web designer) and that it is upsetting him a lot.

This went on for some time and he told me that she had fancied him the first time they met and he missed a 'window of opportunity' to make her his and if he had been more forceful/direct then she would have loved him and they would have stayed together.

he is around 50.

I told him straight that I thought that was strange because she was off exploring the world and doing loads of stuff and he wanted someone to take to art-galleries with and so on. I didn't really understand how that would work out.

He then told me that his ex-wife was much younger than him and he had allowd her to have an 'open relationship' and this had worked really well for them, he took her to boyfriends houses and paid for everything and so on. I said he sounded more like a father figure and he got really upset.

Anyway so I spoke to Sue and said that I thought Paul was being a bit full-on about her and that actually I felt like him obsessing over her was stopping him leading his life and must be pretty weird for her.

She has stated that she never fancied him, never showed him any signs of that, that he invited her to a theatre date with friends and it ended up being the two of them and that was it. He is turning up at music nights she puts on and saying 'thank you for inviting me' to her and so on, basically he has made it so that everywhere she is, he will go.

Since she's left the country he has been attempting to contact her every single day, he will produce newspaper articles that he has found from the small Eastern European town where she is working that she is in and translate them and announce he is putting them on the website. She never asked him to build a website, doesn't really want one.

He will write on the website pretending to be her, she will then say 'well I would never say that' and give him different text to use. She admits she has been naive but she is a reasonable person and he is constantly telling her how normal it is that he takes an interest in her life.

She told him she had a tummy ache 2 months ago and he 'stayed up all night worrying' and looking up abortion clinics in Eastern-Europe. She just had a tummy ache.

He has told me that having her to 'care for' is the only thing stopping him going to sleep crying every night.

She then told me that he asked her repeatedly for her address and she of course turned him down. He then went online, got the address of the theatre school where she teaches and began sending her parcels.

These didn't make it to the theatre school and were sent all around the town before finding her. She was embarrassed by this so gave him her address (?)

He has since been sending her lots of little things, chocolates, poetry, an erotic short story and more recently he has sent her a mobile phone.

She took some money from him for a train ticket to Berlin (silly silly Sue) and she is keen to pay this back though has no money. I've told her I will pay it back to him on her behalf.

She wants to cut him out of her life (understandably) but he keeps following her everywhere. I told her to send me the mobile phone to return it to him and to record and destroy anything in future that he sends? Is this wise advice?

She said she might 'message him to tell him that she will never contact him again' I said to just not message him again ever and not tell him that.

Any advice?

OP posts:
lottieandmia · 01/08/2014 10:57

OP, this really isn't your problem. Your friend doesn't have to be in contact with anyone she doesn't want to.

Do you know why you feel this is your problem that you need to sort out?

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 10:57

She has asked him to take down the website but he just acts like it is totally normal to have a website and a web designer doing the work on it, he just makes her feel stupid for suggesting it is weird etc.

Maybe she should write a note saying 'take down the website or I will contact the police' when she sends the phone back?

OP posts:
GoatsDoRoam · 01/08/2014 10:58

She can also choose to become more hard-nosed about it: he gave her the money of his own free will. This does NOT buy him permission to stalk her - which is what he is doing. Yes, ideally she should reimburse him, but she can't, and the priority is to cut the creep out of her life. A debt is just a further tie to him, which is what he wants. She needs to realise that she owes him nothing.

Sue needs to cut contact, lose the guilt, and learn that "no" is a complete sentence that does not require any follow-up or explanations.

CleanLinesSharpEdges · 01/08/2014 10:58

She didn't return the mobile phone or all these packages, did she? So therefore in his eyes, she's accepted them.

Ivehearditallnow · 01/08/2014 10:58

Blimey - what a dramatic tale.

He sounds like he’s completely and utterly besotted with her, and while his actions are creepy I think she’s almost certainly encouraged some of this – perhaps only initially (who doesn’t like to be admired?).

She needs to take a bit of responsibility for some of this, taking his money and allowing him to set up websites (find it a bit hard to believe he just decided to set up a website without her permission/asking him too – surely if she is a performer/teacher blah, blah she was keen to promote this and wanted a graphic designer friend to help with this?) Not saying she deserves this creepy behaviour at all – but I suspect there’s a bit more to this than meets the eye.

I’d stay well out of the drama and buy a good book / watch a good drama on your iPad (House of Cards is good, lol) – because this all sounds a bit like they are as melodramatic as each other to be honest. Don’t get sucked in to her finances either! She’s a grown up and shouldn’t have moved away if she wasn’t financially able.

Keep him at arm’s length as well – if he doesn’t want to get rejected by his wife and musicians he has fallen madly in love with, maybe he should find someone closer to his own age? Wink

Don't envy you, OP. Hope you're alright! Have either of them asked you how YOU are recently? If not, they aren't very good friends.

GoatsDoRoam · 01/08/2014 11:00

CleanLines - how he sees it is his own affair. Sending unwanted gifts back to a stalker is further engagement; it encourages them: it is contact of sorts, and drama.

Better to quietly bin them.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:01

I don't really consider him a friend. He was an acquaintance before and does have some good qualities.

she is a good friend and yes of course she asks me if I am okay.

She is on the other side of the continent and shes been dealing with this alone for a long time. I do want to help her as much as I can. I suppose that is just who I am

She didn't send the packages back because she doesn't want to be in contact with him and shes got no sodding money!

OP posts:
ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:01

goats do you think it is a good idea for her to send the phone back? Its probably on contract maybe she should give it away

OP posts:
pictish · 01/08/2014 11:03

Yes exactly.
To be clear - it is not her fault he is doing this - he chooses to do it all by himself. He's a creep.

But your friend is probably really nice...and expects a reasonable request and approach, will result in a reasonable response back, which is where she's going wrong.

If someone anyone started a website up about me without asking me, web designer or not, then avoided shutting it down at my say so, they would be on the receiving end of a visitation from the police.

The website gives him is his 'fix' and a reason to keep intruding on her life with photos and updates and what not.

The website has got to go.

Vivacia · 01/08/2014 11:03

I know it's easy to get sucked in, but both you and Sue seem to be getting something from the drama.

She should return all gifts immediately. Can you still do "return to sender"? I think a third party (not you!) should communicate between Sue and Paul, including returning the money.

pictish · 01/08/2014 11:06

My friend's no 1 fan befriended me as well btw - he wanted me on his side and thinking well of him, so I would talk him up to my friend.

Of course, knowing how she felt about him, I never did.

As soon as she gave him the 'never going to happen' speech, I never saw or heard from him again.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:06

Okay well she is feeling a bit anxious today (understandably) because of all this and because shes finally sort of opened up about it and had it confirmed that actually his behaviour is not normal and right.

I think I will speak to her after the weekend about how we can go about getting the website shut down.

she is really nice, that is half the problem but she has realised that she cannot speak to him and expect a reasonable response, she used those exact words which is good.

she has not communicated with him and plans not to ever again.

She also said the same thing about the website, basically at first it seemed like a good idea to have one but has actually become a way for him to impose on her life and she doesn't think it is right.

OP posts:
Castlemilk · 01/08/2014 11:08

She hasn't handled it well, yes - but she's pretty young and a LOT of people end up in these situations simply because they don't know how to tell someone to fuck off.

Because that's what she's going to have to do - he's not someone a little bit too interested who she can give 'no thanks' signals to - he's trouble.

Make this CLEAR to her. She can't be friends with him, she can't give him hints. The kind of approach which will get rid of this guy is threatening to go to the police if he contacts her again. She needs to go to that level. People find that difficult.

pictish · 01/08/2014 11:08

Good. She's getting it now.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:08

I wish the 'never going to happen' speech had worked on Paul, he just blathers on about how he understands that she will only be friends with him but that life would be unbearable without that little tiny piece of sharing between them

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 01/08/2014 11:11

Some lovely victim-blaming here. Thing is, women are socialized intensely to put up with shit like this. We are surrounded by the message that we must be 'nice' to men, however creepy they are; that we must be grateful for gifts, even when we didn't want them and they are of no use to us.
OP your friend hasn't done anything wrong. If she contacts the police, they will advise her and will have a word with Creepybollocks as well. As to the website, she has good legal grounds for getting it taken down as this man is misrepresenting her without her permission (by posting stuff pretending to be her) - a lawyer's letter should do the trick.

pictish · 01/08/2014 11:20

Then she says "your pathalogical need to be involved with my life is what's unbearable...you have no right to access to my, or anybody else's life. Well balanced people don't need or seek that from their friends...you keep forcing contact on me and that's just fucking weird. You have ignored my clear requests to back off, so I now regard your contact as harassment. Shut down the website immediately or I will contact the police."

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:25

Can she contact the police from Eastern Europe?

OP posts:
ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:25

By that I mean, would they care?

OP posts:
ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:29

She had 'got it' a few days ago, but she doesn't know what to do about the phone and the money he gave her. She feels she should return those and I can see why.

OP posts:
pictish · 01/08/2014 11:31

She can seek advice I guess. They might not be legally obliged to do anything as such...I don't know.
But the threat alone sends the strong message of 'no more'. How much clearer does it get than "You are becoming a police matter!"

He will undoubtedly accuse her of 'using' him, but really who gives a fuck? The guy's a total pest. Fuck off Paul!

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:31

I think I should also point something out.

Paul and Sue had a mutual friend, he hanged himself in October. Obviously that was really really difficult for all concerned and I think a lot of the insidious behaviour ramped up around then, he was heartbroken to have lost his friend and I think she felt really sorry for him.

Plus grieving herself.

OP posts:
pictish · 01/08/2014 11:33

Send the phone back, pay back the money, then refute all further contact.
How much does she owe?

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 11:36

£71

thats fine we can sort that between us all.

I will tell her to send the phone back this week.

Just need to work out what to do about the website

OP posts:
pictish · 01/08/2014 11:37

£71 - not too bad. I guess I'd let her owe me that if I were you.
Give him his poxy £71 and send him packing.
What an arse.