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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help with friend/stalker situation

137 replies

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 10:30

My friend is a gregarious, beautiful woman, talented artist, dancer, singer and teacher. She is currently abroad teaching performance arts to children.

She is in her mid to late 20's, we'll call her Sue

She has always had this slightly creepy older friend called Paul (NRN) who, from about 18months ago has started hanging around the same places as her, generally 'being around'.

On Tuesday I had Paul come round, just for a chat and because he was really depressed, he asked me quite calmly if I had heard anything from Sue and I told him she was doing really well and had met someone. He Flipped out. Started going on about how she had lied to him, he wasn't told anything and 'friends tell each other everything' that she wont even communicate to him about the website he has created for her (he is a web designer) and that it is upsetting him a lot.

This went on for some time and he told me that she had fancied him the first time they met and he missed a 'window of opportunity' to make her his and if he had been more forceful/direct then she would have loved him and they would have stayed together.

he is around 50.

I told him straight that I thought that was strange because she was off exploring the world and doing loads of stuff and he wanted someone to take to art-galleries with and so on. I didn't really understand how that would work out.

He then told me that his ex-wife was much younger than him and he had allowd her to have an 'open relationship' and this had worked really well for them, he took her to boyfriends houses and paid for everything and so on. I said he sounded more like a father figure and he got really upset.

Anyway so I spoke to Sue and said that I thought Paul was being a bit full-on about her and that actually I felt like him obsessing over her was stopping him leading his life and must be pretty weird for her.

She has stated that she never fancied him, never showed him any signs of that, that he invited her to a theatre date with friends and it ended up being the two of them and that was it. He is turning up at music nights she puts on and saying 'thank you for inviting me' to her and so on, basically he has made it so that everywhere she is, he will go.

Since she's left the country he has been attempting to contact her every single day, he will produce newspaper articles that he has found from the small Eastern European town where she is working that she is in and translate them and announce he is putting them on the website. She never asked him to build a website, doesn't really want one.

He will write on the website pretending to be her, she will then say 'well I would never say that' and give him different text to use. She admits she has been naive but she is a reasonable person and he is constantly telling her how normal it is that he takes an interest in her life.

She told him she had a tummy ache 2 months ago and he 'stayed up all night worrying' and looking up abortion clinics in Eastern-Europe. She just had a tummy ache.

He has told me that having her to 'care for' is the only thing stopping him going to sleep crying every night.

She then told me that he asked her repeatedly for her address and she of course turned him down. He then went online, got the address of the theatre school where she teaches and began sending her parcels.

These didn't make it to the theatre school and were sent all around the town before finding her. She was embarrassed by this so gave him her address (?)

He has since been sending her lots of little things, chocolates, poetry, an erotic short story and more recently he has sent her a mobile phone.

She took some money from him for a train ticket to Berlin (silly silly Sue) and she is keen to pay this back though has no money. I've told her I will pay it back to him on her behalf.

She wants to cut him out of her life (understandably) but he keeps following her everywhere. I told her to send me the mobile phone to return it to him and to record and destroy anything in future that he sends? Is this wise advice?

She said she might 'message him to tell him that she will never contact him again' I said to just not message him again ever and not tell him that.

Any advice?

OP posts:
ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 13:59

I'm not a drama queen, you are putting your own emotions onto the text I am writing on a screen and coming to the wrong conclusion entirely.

I am just not the sort of person who leaves their friends dealing alone with awful awful men and problems.

What a fucking cunt I am.

OP posts:
Ivehearditallnow · 01/08/2014 14:03

OP I am not asking you to abandon your friend.

I'm saying - seriously - that if she genuinely thinks she's in danger, as many people who care about her should know about it. Not just you, as it's clearly (understandably) causing you distress.

Being cross with people who advise you to step back isn't going to help you or your friend.

Website closing should be priority one.

Owed money / returned gifts etc can be worried about (pardon the expression) later.

Does your friend have a plan about closing down the website??

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 14:05

Ive I absolutely could not give a shiny shit what you think I should/shouldn't do after your last comment to me. Anything further you say will be ignored.

OP posts:
Ivehearditallnow · 01/08/2014 14:10

FFS grow up! You should calm down before you offer your poor friend any advice.

Vivacia · 01/08/2014 14:18

I don't think people are suggesting you abandon your friend. Although I can see how it could be read that way, I think that there's a subtle difference. I think that there's a danger you could become embroiled in the drama of it all (and that you have already) and that won't be of help. What your friend needs is cool-headed, decisive advice.

Secondly, all of the advice in the world won't be enough if she refuses to hear it. Then what would you do?

You've been given cool-headed, decisive advice. What's your next step?

Ivehearditallnow · 01/08/2014 14:20

Vivacia YES!

JamNan · 01/08/2014 14:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 14:56

Im going to suggest that she sends the phone back to me, i will tell Paul that another mutual friend received it and gave it to me to return to him.

I will pay him back the money...

The only bit I am unsure of is wether the stuff about the website should come from her directly or a third party... she might havesome ideas about that herself though.

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 01/08/2014 15:04

I didn't ask, OP - are you male or female? If you are male then tread very carefully. Setting yourself up as her 'rescuer' is not a good idea.

Meerka · 01/08/2014 15:04

wow, some pretty mean posts on here accusing the OP and her friend of being drama queens. Some people havent even read the posts properly before accusing the OP. Like SGB said, lots of victim blaming too. Lucky for those people they know how to handle everything perfectly the first time.

icanhear I think you need to take what constructive advice you can from this thread and write it down and work out a good way to go about exising this creep from her life. From the sound of it it may well involve the UK police. If you really think he's going to turn up in her town, it may well be worth her finding out if the police there can help or not.

Beyond that the PP's suggestion that she send him a clear unambiguous letter that he no longer contact her seems best. Return the money and phone with that letter. Maybe inform him the gifts have been given away. You sound a lovely friend to her, might you even help her with the postage costs?

I'm afraid that at this point his future with the theater company is NOT her responsibility. She needs to know that very clearly and accept that, which is pretty hard going when you've been brought up to be nice to people and considerate. But in this case, it's necessary.

Vivacia · 01/08/2014 15:05

How come when you hover over JamNan's name (which I did, in order to report that post btw) do you get two names?

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 15:15

I am female.

Meerka that sounds very sensible. I am loathed to suggest she sends an email because it is so easy to reply to an email. I think I will definitely suggest she does that, make it very clear that any further communication will be shown straight to the police.

Hopefully then he will creep off somewhere else.

OP posts:
GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 01/08/2014 15:19

No idea why you or your friend are getting such a kicking on this thread.

SGB and others have given some good advice. What you have here is your classic nice woman - overly persistent man situation. He needs to be cut off completely, any scraps of attention will be dissected, pored over, magnified to the nth degree. Your friend needs to forget about being nice where this (and other) unwanted attention is concerned. It takes a while, but women on the whole need to develop a core of steel.

Meerka · 01/08/2014 15:25

I think a written letter would be better, ican. And send it recorded so she KNOWS he got it (postage between the EU and the UK isn't always reliable).

what gilbert said .... we need to develop a core of steel! unfortunately it can take some unpleasant experiences to get there.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 15:26

I can only assume, Gilbert, that is HAS to be the women's fault.

Oh and also that we should all deal with shit like this from men in isolation, the sisterhood solidarity is clearly lost on some people.

When a friend of mine tells me they are being abused I will always ALWAYS consider that my problem as well.

OP posts:
ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 15:27

Good Call Meerka thank you for your (and others) advice on this thread, I really appreciate it

OP posts:
hesterton · 01/08/2014 15:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tribpot · 01/08/2014 15:46

I really don't think Paul should know that you've been involved in retrieving the phone and money. Why can she not post it back to him directly? The money thing is slightly different in that it cost her the best part of 30 quid to send 70 back from a foreign bank account, does she have a UK account still?

I think you are both still being very optimistic that this guy will creep off once he is told outright he has crossed a line. His behaviour is deeply, deeply odd and given he seems to feel that 'taking care' of Sue is his lifeline, he will not be able to give it up without a fight. If there is anyone who could encourage him to be getting some help for himself, that would be good - he is depressed but this behaviour is way more than that.

Meerka · 01/08/2014 15:49

agreed, he needs to seek some help.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 16:38

My plan was to say that other friend, let's call her Cheryl... Will be receiving the phone and money and only giving then to me because she knows I speak to Paul.

I will pay him the money from my bank account so no worries there.

OP posts:
GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 01/08/2014 16:47

I'd avoid overly complicating things. Money in an envelope, short letter telling him to close the website down (that is the creepiest part of this entire saga btw!), block and delete.

GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 01/08/2014 16:48

And phone in the envelope, obv. Note saying it's inappropriate and she doesn't want any more gifts or messages. He will get the message, even though he won't like it.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 16:55

Okay I will put all this to her when I speak to her again

OP posts:
Talkingmouse · 01/08/2014 17:01

You should both stop any contact as from now. Keep the money. Destroy the phone. Destroy other gifts. Close the website yourself. Send one carefully worded, and brief, formal letter insisting that any contact from him should stop forthwith.

ICanHearYou · 01/08/2014 17:04

How do we close the website ourselves?

OP posts: