Do men despise women.

[Loomineer]

On another thread read comments about women not realising how much men despise them. It got me thinking how in my relationships I've looked back and thought god. They really despised me.

My best friend is in a relationship where to me her dp treats her like he despises her.

I am not a man hater by any means. I just wondered what other people thought.

Cailindana, you might be right, and this is where I agree that the patriarchy hurts men just as much. In the same way women can be berated if they're not gentle or caring, men can be berated if they're not aggressive. It's a pretty even split there.

It'd be much better if we lived in a world without any preassigned traits

"Do we as a group despise African children?"

I think the answer in a global sense is yes, sadly. 'Despising' in this context meaning that Westerners are repulsed by their plight and, even though pity or compassion is expressed, we're not exercised enough to help out. There is often a contemptuous reaction to appeals ... 'any money we give only lines the pockets of corrupt governments' etc

When I was a kid in school, and I've noticed since, it was a common "perception" that the scholarly achievers were girls - was I in a minority there? Not so sure... "girls are better at school...", "girls mature faster than boys..." were common phrases I heard growing up.
My DD's school (tyke is just finishing yr2) most certainly does not enforce any view that girls are just "broken versions" of boys, and I can count on one hand, with a couple of digits chopped off, the number of times she's come home to say "a boy said I couldn't do such and such'cos I'm a girl" (one time was playing football, the other was a boy's incredulity at seeing my daughter in her karate suit). So if anyone's DD is coming home and regularly saying such things, look to the school (and I suspect it ain't the teachers), then look at the parents - our peers, half of whom are women.
I was never "socialised" to think I was superior for the simple fact I am male. I'd really rather think I'm not the exception.

Cogito, but saying that globally, there's a risk it becomes meaningless - right now, we're tolerating lots of awful things done to women - so we can say as a group, we despise gays in Uganda, women in India, trade unionists in I don't know where. So, effectively, on those terms, as a group, we despise lots of groups.

Genuine question Minus. I'm assuming you're an adult. If girls you grew up with were considered to be scholarly achievers then why is it the case that out of all your peers more of the boys you grew up with are in positions of power than the girls?

Genuine answer Cailindana, is I can't answer.
Does chauvinism exist? Yes. Am I a misogynist? No.
Equality is (supposed to be) enshrined in UK law - is it perfect, is it achieved yet? Hell, no. But education is a fundamental right, regardless of sex. Google GCSE and A Levels, and historically girls outperform boys in the former, with boys catching up in the latter (some years passing, others not).
Politics? Men outnumber women, quite obviously, in the commons. Does gender influence whom I'd vote for? No.
A (major) political party in our constituency is under instruction from central office to field an all-woman shortlist to put forward to fight for the parliamentary seat. Is that right? Give me the right person for the job please, regardless of gender.
Oh, and have any of my contributions been the slightest bit confrontational? I don't think so. Read my last post fully, please, and realise a man with a 7yo child has to be an adult. That may answer your rather condescending "assumption"

Yes your last contribution is confrontational minus. I did misread your post and the assumption comment was purely for clarification. You seem quite angry about it.

I am interested in hearing your viewpoint. But if you'd rather not discuss the topic, that's fine. Let me know.

The original post questioned "Do Men despise Women?". I have expressed an opinion that that is a rather sweeping generalisation. Such a generalisation is, in my opinion, quite dangerous, and also a little hurtful to those who wish not to be categorised as such. An opinion, hardly confrontational. I've also said that, in my circle of male friends /family /Co-workers, whilst prejudices and stereotyping may exist, the worst of them are a couple of colleagues, whom outside of work I choose not to socialise with. So, from my personal sphere, men do not despise women.
That is most certainty not to suggest that prejudices deeper than those, or misogyny do not exist - quite the contrary, but not in me, and I'm sure you'll appreciate, I don't want to be bracketed with such people.
The school thing, again, is my recollection, my experience of growing up.
Any confrontational tone in my posts was purely the last sentence from my last post - and that came from the comment "I assume your an adult", which I found confrontational and insulting - if I if I fired one back and you found it confrontational, I apologise. But angry? Far from it - every post I've contributed to this thread has acknowledged a gender gap, while trying to demonstrate that it isn't all, nor even (hopefully) a significant portion of male society that "despise" women. Hence the very last sentence of my post at 11:56.

this is completely off-topic (sorry), but should we all have to clarify if we're adults. Cailindana, are you an adult?

Ok, good that's cleared up then.

I'd be interested to know what your viewpoint is on women who wear revealing clothing or get drunk while out late at night. Do you believe they should cover up in order to stay safe?

Yes I am Map.

Why is it that, when men (and women) talk about all women shortlists and say that they want the right person for the job, does it sound like they don't believe that that person is one of the women on the shortlist?

Women's rights are being eroded. Roe vs Wade is being undermined a far too many states in the US.

It took a concerted effort from feminists around the world for the 300+ girls who disappeared in Nigeria to be more than a footnote in international news.

Issues surrounding water and sanitation disproportionately affect women, as evidenced in India, Indian politicians have got away with making statements about women deserving rape in some cases.

The minister for women in Australia makes vile remarks about women with impunity.

Newspapers judge women, not on their achievements, but on which dress they are wearing and whether or not they have shaved their bloody legs.

I, and others who tweet about women's rights have been threatened with truly awful things by men, strangers, people I will never meet thank heavens

Young men feel that posting memes on Facebook about how angry they are that women they fancy won't have sex with them, even if they are nice to them.

None of this is one off stuff. This is every single day. Men as a class, as a social group, despise women as a social group, and there are women who enable them to do that and actively encourage it.

Young men feel that posting memes on Facebook about how angry they are that women they fancy won't have sex with them, even if they are nice to them is reasonable and fair!

Bloody editing fail!

Elliot Rodger was a hero in some circles. Case in point.

"I, and others who tweet about women's rights have been threatened with truly awful things by men, strangers, people I will never meet "

This is the real test of the level of spite, I think, in the same way that racist stuff comes tumbling out through social media. We're all legally equal in the UK, outwardly there's harmony and tolerance, sexism/racism is socially unacceptable, and so on. Most of the time we're all quite civil in face to face encounters. But it doesn't take much prompting... a campaign to have women on bank-notes or a black football player having a bad match ... for the real attitude to shine forth.

And for those saying women hate men just as much, I have yet to see a Twitter/Facebook campaign where a mob of women bring a man down just for being a man.

Cailindana, many a night during my university years was spent out on the beer in a child's city in northern England. The men's dress code appeared to be t-shirt or short sleeved shirt with jeans /trousers. Girls' code, despite the cold, appeared to include an awful lot of nothing much... Whilst I cast appreciative glances, made the odd approach, and even found myself (rarely, dammit - yes, "nice guys" get less) the subject of their attentions, at no point did I, or any of my mates, feel that they should fear for their safety. Nothing more abhorrent than the sort of crime I think you're alluding to in your post.
A (rather sad) indictment of our press is the recent Magaluf story - much made of the morals of a drunk girl, nothing of the behaviour and lack of morals of the 24 "slutty" lads getting their knobs out...

Ffs, autocorrect... "chilly", not child's...
Oops

Minus let's take it as a given that you are a Nice Guy. I see no reason to think otherwise here.

But when you see men hassle women, make assumptions about them because of the way they dress, call Magaluf girl a "slut" whilst tacitly approving the actions of the 24 males do you speak out ? Do you tackle them on it face to face?. Put your head above the parapet and get verbal abuse because of it ? Get called a humourless frigid bitch who hates sex and hates men ?

No ? Thought not. You and your mates don't do that. My "Nigel" and everyone else's "Nigel" on this thread don't do that.

So who does ? And who will stop them ?

Other men ? One would like to think so, but it just doesn't happen on a large enough scale to make a difference. The only people who make a massive fuss about all this are feminists and they get their reputations trashed, threatened with verbal and physical violence and told to STFU since we have laws against sexism these days don't we?. Do you understand at all how that can get very tiring ?

AF, actually, in our open plan office, some of the younger lads bring in certain red-top "papers", and yes, I did make my feelings very much known on both the standard (or lack) of reporting, and the behaviour of the "men" (not wanting to use the term "lads", which suggests a kind of approval of such behaviour).

Glad to hear it. Now what you need to do is to notice every single little example of the objectification of women and point it out to the perpetrators. I mean the stuff that usually whooshes over your head and you don't notice because of your socialised privilege as wel as the big stuff. Everything

I guarantee you will get no work done

I must say, that is my experience of men who would also call themselves 'nice men'. Even 'nice men' wouldn't raise their heads above to parapet to defend the injustices against women.

One time, I was rather late for work and had also stopped for petrol, knowing that it would only add a further 5 min or so to my trip at that time of the morning. To give this context, the service station was set well off the road, so there were no witnesses to what happened next. As I pulled out of the service station I stopped for traffic, stopping over a newly made the bicycle track. I noticed that a male cyclist was hammering it down the bike track 30m away from me and came to a halt not far from my car. This man was pissed beyond belief. he berated me for 10 minutes, spitting and screaming at me while I sat in the car in shock. Would he have railed at a man like that? Would he have called a man a 'stupid bitch' and 'dumb cunt'? All at 9.30am on a Monday morning.

When I got to work, and related this story to a female coworker, who was shocked and angry at my experience, not one of the several male coworkers (who also would have overheard the story) dared say anything. In fact, not one of them could even look me in the eye, or offer any words of sympathy/empathy. The patriarchy supporting the patriarchy

These and many similar experiences have formed my understanding that yes, women are other, and that we somehow don't matter to many men.

^But when you see men hassle women, make assumptions about them because of the way they dress, call Magaluf girl a "slut" whilst tacitly approving the actions of the 24 males do you speak out ? Do you tackle them on it face to face?. Put your head above the parapet and get verbal abuse because of it ? Get called a humourless frigid bitch who hates sex and hates men ?

No ? Thought not. You and your mates don't do that. My "Nigel" and everyone else's "Nigel" on this thread don't do that.

So who does ? And who will stop them ?^

I've done this and nearly got my block knocked off because of it (within the last fortnight, in fact). There are lots of decent men who hate this sort of behaviour. When you say No ? Thought not. You and your mates don't do that. My "Nigel" and everyone else's "Nigel" on this thread don't do that. you do me and all the other decent men a disservice.

(a) I am not saying you should get into punch ups, Eminor, but that says it all really doesn't it ?

(b) you are talking about the "big" stuff like blatant misogyny. Most people are not talking about that.

Zazzles, as a cyclist, I suspect you're just a member of the "motorarchy" and just can't see your privilege. Cyclists often do get angry when you drive a ton of metal right in front of their path.