Do men despise women.

[Loomineer]

On another thread read comments about women not realising how much men despise them. It got me thinking how in my relationships I've looked back and thought god. They really despised me.

My best friend is in a relationship where to me her dp treats her like he despises her.

I am not a man hater by any means. I just wondered what other people thought.

I never said that dancing. Do you believe it's alright?

Now we are in a generation where men treat women like how they treat other men

thats just not true.

e.g. when a woman makes a mistake, its because she is a woman. when a man makes a mistake it just their own mistake.

you need to read Delusions of Gender.

eminor I'm sorry to hear that.

However, the question was"along the lines of "have you ever been advised to change / moderate your clothing to avoid being raped?" which you have not answered.

Also I think it's worth considering that our reaction as a society to reports of rape vary with the respective genders of the aggressor and victim.

If the law says a woman can't rape a man, why is that? Why do we not use the same word for the same act (non-consented penetration)? Because of our archetype of "man", "woman" and indeed "rape".

A man raped by a man has his sexuality questioned. Why? Because he has taken the "woman" role in the archetype.

I really think this confirms the misogyny, rather than challenging it.

I'm dismayed at the people on this thread trying to minimise the fact that eminor was sexually assaulted.

Do you believe it's alright?

For fuck's sake, what sort of response is that? What do you think?

When men experience violence and murder, who is likely to be carrying it out Eminor, men or women?

I am telling you, though you can choose not to believe me, that women as a social class absolutely do suffer collective trauma from sexual assault, because they are constantly warned of what a threat it is from a very young age. They are told not to go certain places, not to walk on their own, not to wear certain clothes, not to drink too much, not to "lead men on," etc etc due to the threat of sexual violence. That affects them all the time. Plus 1 in 6 women in Britain are assaulted in their lifetime. The number is far far higher in other parts of the world. Millions of women are assaulted and raped every year. It is not a small problem that we can just ignore.

Who is trying to minimise Eminor's assaults dancing?

You were the one who said "that's alright then," I was wondering why you said it. But as you clearly don't think it's alright I'll just take it that you were mistaken in saying it.

I can also say, hand on heart (though most men think I'm exaggerating until they investigate for themselves) that I do not know one single woman who has not been sexually assaulted at some point in their lives. The 1 in 6 figure relates to reported assaults (not necessarily reported to the police, but to other authorities) but doesn't take into account the bum grabs, the hand between the legs, the boob grabs, the intimidating posturing, the crude language etc etc etc that women are subjected to throughout their lives.

I'm dismayed at the people on this thread trying to minimise the fact that eminor was sexually assaulted.

what caitlinedana said.

out of my 4 closest friends: 2 have been raped and one violently sexually assaulted with injuries lasting months.

sexual assault/rape is fairly normal for women. not ok but not unusual.

1 in 5 women between the ages of 16 and 59

i would tend to agree with you cailindana. every single woman that i have broached the subject with (which isn't all, i admit - we have to have a degree of trust and intimacy first!) has been sexually assaulted in some way. the statistics above also don't cover the earlier teen years which is when it was worst for me. it was seen as shameful, as though we had brought it on ourselves, tbh at that age we didn't tell our parents or anyone in authority most of the time (one serious case i did tell my mother several weeks later and she called the police, but of course it was too late for anything to be done by then), almost a natural but uncomfortable part of growing up. we (girls) didn't really discuss it between ourselves because of the feelings of shame, and certainly not with boys. it's not something i would discuss beyond "safe company", and i'm afraid i include most men in the non-safe category with the exception of my dp. dp was so shocked when i told him, and i emphasised that my experiences were common, not out of the ordinary at all - this is what most women experience almost as a matter of course. but being a "nice man" it simply hadn't crossed his radar

I don't believe that 'men despise women' any more than I believe that 'white people are racist'. And I don't think either statement is particularly useful if what you are trying to do is address structural inequalities and assumptions in society.

you may not feel privileged eminor, but what you will get (but it may not be perceptible) is lumped in with other men in a schrodinger's rapist/violent man way

this means that you will likely be treated in a certain way by a large proportion women who don't know you, or know you well enough to trust you, as they alter their behaviour to mitigate against any potential violence from you. i'm sure you would do the same if you were to go to those areas that you had been advised against going to - you would alter your behaviour. well, the majority of women are doing that all the time when they come into contact with men, or in a male-dominated space (which tends to be most public areas). not because they think that you specifically are violent, but they don't know that you aren't, and everything they have been taught through socialisation and experience tells them that they are at fault if they are victims of violence (sexual or not)

this behaviour from women towards you may be almost imperceptible (especially as we are so accustomed to women behaving a particular way, men behaving another way), but it may include mollification, appeasement, agreement (where actually they don't agree, or they disagree strongly but won't express it in those terms), submissive body language, conciliation, allowing you to get your own way when that isn't what they want

so while being at higher risk of violence yourself as a man from other men doesn't feel like a privilege, the violence of other men does lend you privilege

i also don't wnat to minimise the horrible things you've experienced eminor, that is shit and shouldn't happen

I'm not sure that you're actually 'much' more likely to be subject to male violence. You're more likely to be physically assaulted in a public place. You're much less likely to be sexually assaulted. You're also less likely to suffer violence from an intimate parter whether sexual, physical, or both. 20% of violent incidents reported to police is dv and that is generally part of a sustained campaign, whereas men generally report one off fights.

Where total tallies would leave us I'm not sure, but I would say both men and women are prone to be subject to male violence in different contexts.

how common sexual abuse of girls/women is, as described by them

eminor I am sorry you have been subjected to sexual assaults by both women and men

Indeed eminor was very unlucky to have to that experience, horrible.

The statistics on likelihood are academic if it's happened to you.

I think some men are sadistic and cruel
I think some women are sadistic and cruel
Fortunately its not the norm for either gender.as humans we are capable if depravity and great humanity

Sorry to read about the brutality sone if yiu have experienced

eminor I am very sorry that you have experienced that. Sexual assault sucks, and I'm glad it hasn't affected your life too badly.

Petula that's so interesting. I think that as a woman you can find yourself in an awkward situation with a man where you are thinking "the likelihood of this man harming me is very small" yet even that tiny probability stays inside your mind and makes you act subconsciously in an appeasing manner.

And probably men don't realise this. Women's reputation for indirectness is sometimes just a result of trying to let men down gently. They probably wonder what we have to be afraid of and the answer is probably nothing but the possibility is always in the back of your mind.

I agree, Eminor, which is why so many feminists say over and over that patriarchy harms men as well as women

Yes patruarchy restricts and inhibits both genders.men into wage slave,gotta turn a buck
Women financially dependent upon men,giving up career for domesticity