Do men despise women.

[Loomineer]

On another thread read comments about women not realising how much men despise them. It got me thinking how in my relationships I've looked back and thought god. They really despised me.

My best friend is in a relationship where to me her dp treats her like he despises her.

I am not a man hater by any means. I just wondered what other people thought.

No, I can't. This isn't my point though. My point is that generalising about 'male privilege' whilst neglecting other factors is looking at the world with one eye shut. Many men aren't privileged in any meaningful sense.

Ok dancing, that's your opinion. I don't agree.

the point I was trying to make is that we challenge a generalisation about engineering being a male profession as sexist - (it doesn't matter if it's true, it's for the sake of argument), it's a generalisation to say "men despise women" - which was the point of the thread

I understood entirely what point you were making: my point was that your chosen comparisons were not actually commensurate with 'men despise women'.

Fair enough. To end my contribution to the thread, based on my experiences in Western Europe, it is my opinion that it is not correct to say "men despise women"

When doing the 'people living in slums in Lagos' routine, it's best to compare like with like. Of course a woman from a MC family in the west is going to be privileged over a man from that slum, but that man will be massively privileged over a woman from the same slum, in myriad ways. In the same way, a MC man in the west will have unearned privilege over the MC woman.

Comparing a well off woman in the west with a male dalit in the Punjab is just lazy thinking.

Men are privileged in every meaningful sense when you compare like with like.

The problem (just my opinion of course) with Bluegrass's post there is that just says some people are poor, some people are disadvantaged in life, some people have shit lives. That is of course indisputable. But why do we HAVE to ignore the sex-biased element there? There IS a gender imbalance too. Women with shit lives don't shit on men in the persistent, commonplace way men shit shit lives shit on women.

the dancingbear, there is a very good explanation here, written by a man, about how it works without using the term "privilege"

Slug, it works to a point but it overlooks the fact that other considerations such as economic factors, disability, health, upbringing, quality of education etc etc. can also have a huge impact. 'straight white male = advantaged' does not work in every situation. We need a more sophisticated approach than that.

I keep on saying this scientifically CaptChaos (it's not lazy thinking to bring in Lagos, or disability, just making an extreme contrast to make a point)

As a scientist, I would be interested to see what percentage of varation in quality of life, income, whatever, can be explained in the UK by gender compared to other factors.

But why do we HAVE to ignore the sex-biased element there? There IS a gender imbalance too.

We don't and we shouldn't. We should see it in context.

men WITH shit lives shit on women...

I have a fair bit of reading to do I see

I have seen women with shit lives shit on men too. It's not a one-way street.

I don't think men who despise women are confined to one social class, such as working class men who had careers in industry as was alluded to earlier. If that were true you wouldn't hear about the terrible experiences of some women who work in banking or entertainment.

I think the actions of men who hate women are often hidden or so ingrained in society, we don't register it. It isn't just about men coming up to women and saying vile misogynistic things and physically hurting them, it's more subtle than that.

OTM As a scientist, I would be interested to see what percentage of varation in quality of life, income, whatever, can be explained in the UK by gender compared to other factors.

Then as a scientist, do the research.

And it is lazy thinking when, as a scientist, you don't compare like with like.

Some men hate women.
Some women hate men.

I think the numbers are pretty equal.
However men are more noticeably cruel to women though.

It's depressing that this thread is still bogged down in 'some' or 'all'.

The point of the GG's original quote was not a Monty Python squabble over just how many men are involved, but that women are unaware that they are hated.

Is it true that men despise women? Some do and some don't.

Next!

CaptChaos, I'm not a social scientist, but I did a quick google

sticerd.lse.ac.uk/dps/case/cr/CASEreport60_summary.pdf

There's a graph showing how children do in education on page 13, and the effect of different factors

The most important factor is income, followed by father's profession, then mother's education, then housing tenure, then area deprivation, then family type, then ethnicity, then at the bottom gender.

I've never met and had a conversation with a man who I feel despises me or other women.
Perhaps I am very good at avoiding the despisers, or am blissfully unaware?
Sometimes I have felt underestimated by men, but that doesn't tend to last long.

"Slug, it works to a point but it overlooks the fact that other considerations such as economic factors, disability, health, upbringing, quality of education etc etc. can also have a huge impact. 'straight white male = advantaged' does not work in every situation. We need a more sophisticated approach than that"

did you read the follow-up posts that were linked to at the bottom of the post? he goes some way to address that here and here

Eminor:

have you ever been groped aggressively by a woman?
have you ever been warned not to wear something or go out late on your own in case you are raped?

Sorry to hear that Eminor. Just to clarify under the law a woman cannot rape you. She can sexually assault you though.

You are aware of the effects of sexual assault as you have experienced them yourself. Far far greater numbers of women then men get raped and assaulted every year and live in fear of the threat of it all the time. Can you understand how that threat and fear puts women at a disadvantage?

When I got to work, and related this story to a female coworker, who was shocked and angry at my experience, not one of the several male coworkers (who also would have overheard the story) dared say anything. In fact, not one of them could even look me in the eye, or offer any words of sympathy/empathy. The patriarchy supporting the patriarchy

You cut off a cyclists, he shouts at you.
TBH if I said that story no one would say anything and the women in the office certainly wouldn't come to offer sympathy.

During the previous generations women were seen as the weaker sex that needed to be protected and men were expected to fend for themselves.

Now we are in a generation where men treat women like how they treat other men ie. if you have nothing to offer I'm not concerned.

Some of the 'experiences' on this thread as proof that men despise women are basically how men treat other men.
Being ignored if you are not dominant, people being somewhat aggressive and not receiving any sympathy is what men experience all the time.

When sex is not involved, most men don't care about women just like they don't care about men.

It's more dangerous and against feminism ideals to treat women like some kind of delicate flower.

Just to clarify under the law a woman cannot rape you. She can sexually assault you though.

Oh, that's alright then.