Have a really bad relationship with MIL- could do with some feedback.

[bigbluecat]

I don't really know what I want from this post other than just to be able to talk (or rather type) it through, and to get a bit of advice on how to deal with this - let me know if I'm being unfair and to what extent, and if I'm not, tell me how to just smile and nod because I find it really hard...

I started a relationship with DH when we were both teenagers - we've been together for 7 years now. Neither of us were in great mental health back then and our relationship was awfully dysfunctional for a long time - he was quite emotionally abusive to me for years.

DH and I are ok now, but I bring up the past abuse because I feel that on some level I may blame MIL for causing it (she was not a very 'involved' mother and was/still is emotionally abusive towards FIL) and not helping me (I tried to tell her how DH was towards me at one point and it was like she was literally unable to comprehend what I was saying). I realise this may be unfair.

Things didn't start getting bad between me and MIL until I had DC1. She flat out told me that she was, in her words, "the matriarch of the family", and became very controlling and competitive with me.

An example: once, when DS was a baby, we were staying over the PILs' house and the train journey and mucked up his sleeping. I was trying to rock him to sleep and he was whingeing quite loudly. MIL came in and tried to pull DS out of my arms saying "I'll get the baby to sleep." I held onto him and said, politely, "Oh, no thank you, I'll do it." She kept pulling and said, "No, I'll take him, I'll be able to do it quicker." When I repeated that I'd do it (DS barely knew her a that point and was more comfortable with me) she flew into a rage and started swearing and shouting at me.

Another example: On DS's third birthday, PILs came over and we were sitting in the garden as DC unwrapped presents. DS handed DH a present to assemble. MIL said, "You'd better read the instructions first." I laughed and said, "Oh, DH never reads instructions!" (A fairly innocuous/jokey comment, I thought?) MIL snaps back, "Well you don't have to tell me that, he's my son and I know him better than you!" I frowned (not on purpose or in an intentionally confrontational way - I was hurt and taken aback) but didn't reply. She said, "You needn't frown like that! Of course I know him better! I've known him since he was a baby!" DH at this point tried to stick up for me, but he's not great with confrontation and she just changed the subject and talked over him until he backed down.

Those are the examples that first come to mind but there have been many, many others.

I realised how much it was bothering me today when DS (who is now nearly 4) told me today that he 'loves nanna more and wants to live with her forever'. I realise that whilst he does love his nanna, he is probably in this case confusing love with the fact that he enjoys staying over there and having sugary snacks aplenty and unlimited CBeebies. But it felt like a punch in the gut. The thought of him possibly saying this TO her fills me with absolute dread because I know I wouldn't hear the end of it (he once told her he liked her cottage pie more than mine and she absolutely crowed over it). If he had said that he loved, for example, my (lovely) grandma more than me, I wouldn't have cared - would perhaps even have been pleased that he felt so close to her. But I have felt a sort of angry bitterness all day and I think I am starting to dislike MIL perhaps disproportionately.

Those of you with terrible relationships with your MILs (or anyone comparable) - how do you deal with it? She is a fab nanna to DS and I appreciate that and am pleased for him that he has this relationship. But I still can't stand her.

Massive OP, sorry.

I think you new plan for dh's phone call to MIL is good. I wonder if he can add anything about the sort of behaviour that is expected at your home, that she will be expected to treat everyone with courtesy which includes FIL. That aggression and rudeness is not acceptable, no matter to whom it is directed, while ds is present? I do see that this may not be possible, and is also likely to cause ructions.

I see why you feel that you would have to pull her up on that sort of behaviour when your son is there, but if you do - especially if you do - it will make whatever incident worse.

Your son is old enough now for you to mention before MIL comes over what sorts of behaviours are kind and polite and what sorts of behaviours aren't. You can add that some grownups don't follow those rules, but that doesn't make it OK to do it yourselves. Suggest that he watch the person who is being shouted at and see how upsetting it is for them.

I think what I'm saying is that you can't stop her doing it, and that your son will be exposed to it, and that really all you can do is try to instil into him the idea that this is not OK before he sees her. A kind of prophylactic!

You can add that some grownups don't follow those rules, but that doesn't make it OK to do it yourselves. Suggest that he watch the person who is being shouted at and see how upsetting it is for them.

hmmm

I'd be keeping that woman at a very safe distance. Why would you even want a better relationship with her??

I think I'd concentrate on your husband and getting to the bottom of the previous emotional abuse (you can kind of understand how that has developed through childhood) and keep her at arm's length.

Perhaps every time MIL says something rude, I could say "It would have been nice if you could have expressed that more politely, MIL" or "It would be nice if you would talk less aggressively, MIL" or something similar?

And what do you think she will say to you if you try that one? Whilst you will be right, it will sound incredibly patronising and she won't take it kindly.

Just talk to your son about it afterwards and point out how unkind it was.

In theory the plan with DH telling her that it's unacceptable for her to speak to you like that is fine.

But she's been corrected before face to face and just shouted him down, she'll do the same with a hanging up to boot!

Yes he has to tell her that her treatment of you is unacceptable, but tbh he has to make an issue of it, not waiting for a call to happen, that's too passive and shows her that it's not enough of a priority to make a fuss over.

YOU at the time have to say to her that speaking to you like this is unacceptable and that you won't have it. Tell her if she can't be civil and apologise for being foul then you'll end the call, and it will be the last contact she has with you, or anything to do with you. Give her precisely 2 seconds to apologise, then, 'No?, ok then, your choice.' and hang up.

She will try to shout you down, don't stop, just repeat your statement again, calmly and carry on with the script.

Then you inform your H that neither you, nor your son will have any more contact with her until she apologises. State too that there isn't any negotiation on this.

Nothing less than conviction like this will establish your position here. Nothing short of this intransigence will make so much as a dent.

Yeah she'll rant and rave. You then adopt a bored tone and calmly state 'i'd hoped for more than this from you, but knew i'd be disappointed, oh well'

Think I agree with Hissy here - you definitely need to be much firmer with MIL, OP, as does your DH.

All the stuff about telling her it would be nice if she spoke more politely - well, it sounds reasonable enough, but she's not trying to be nice, is she? She's doing & saying exactly what she wants, knowing she can get away with it!

Again, I kind of agree with Jux that it's a good idea to tell your son, as he gets older, that some people don't always behave politely & don't follow the rules of good behaviour. After all, that's a fact of life.

But I think it's even more important to tell - & show - DS that we can & must stand up to bullies; & that we don't have to keep "playing" with these people who don't play by the rules.

It's not just the possibility of DS copying his GM's behaviour that's a danger, after all. In some ways it's even worse for him to see his GM being horribly rude to his mum & to see that there really aren't any consequences, & that his mum even goes back for more.

It doesn't matter if you say to him afterwards that nanna shouldn't have behaved like that. The fact is, she has, & there's a real danger that your son will pick up the message that tolerating abuse & rudeness is just par for the course in family life.

What Hissy wrote. You have been far too amenable and she has played you and your DH like a violin as a result.

Re LoonvanBoon's comment:-
"All the stuff about telling her it would be nice if she spoke more politely - well, it sounds reasonable enough, but she's not trying to be nice, is she? She's doing & saying exactly what she wants, knowing she can get away with it!"

Exactly and moreover you are still assuming that on some innate level she is a reasonable human being. She is not, its her way or no way as far as she is concerned. The "normal" rules of dealing with familial relations go out the window when you are confronted by a dysfunctional relative like his mother.

Actually that's a hugely significant point Atilla makes.

You can't engage with abusive people using normal people's rules.

Your MIL is not normal, you know this, the whole thread is in uproar at her tantrums and treatment of you.

So don't expect her to be anything other than what she is.

My DM sounds similar to your MIL. Not quite as bad, but very similar.

It's only more recently that I've stopped giving in to her - like your DH, I avoid conflict at all costs. I get the FOG - I can see it, but I'm not the best at dealing with it.

Both of my boys (14 and 6) have said to me a) I wish DSis was my mum and b) I love nan the best (my youngest decided to write his school Mothers Day card to my DM because she 'looks after him and makes sure he's OK'. I bawled my eyes out.

My DSis doesn't encourage them to say this, but my DM elevates my (childless) DSis to godlike levels to the children (if she buys them a toy, that toy will still be around 10 years later, she does this with things she buys for them too.)

I sat down both boys (at different times, both aged 6) and spoke about 'ranking' people in your family, how it's not nice and it's hurtful etc. They both seem to have taken it in.

My DM is type of person who is constantly saying 'She's stupid, her' about me to my DSs, when I'm actually far from it. I prioritise differently to her, we have different outlooks and different lives - but unfortunately, in her eyes, this makes me stupid. She can't really have a conversation and agree to disagree, she has to get het up and screech at you until her point is made. My boys idolise her.

What makes it difficult for me to go NC, is that she is in one of the most horrendous EA relationships I've known. And has been for the last 10 years - before that it was EA but not as bad as it is now (20 years-ish in total). I feel that she needs my support (FOG again?).

I stood up to her a few months back (DSs were not with me, I was taking her home) - she was gaslighting about my DP. She burst out crying, said she must have learning difficulties because I take her the wrong way and I must be right. Said it's all her DPs fault - he's got her 'a bag of nerves'.

I make sure if she kicks off in front of DSs that I say to her 'Stop shouting and being aggressive, there's no need for that'. But ultimately, all of this is just trying to 'manage' it. I told her she needed counselling (believe it or not, she's a fully 4-years trained counsellor herself). She went 4 times before saying that the counsellor said until she's out of her EA relationship, there's no point.

Gah!

It's an uphill battle - I have no answers but just thought I'd sympathise with a similar tale of woe.

I don't understand - what do you mean "when MIL comes to us?"
Do you mean you are actually going to allow this woman into your home, your sanctuary after the way she spoke to you an abused you?

I have a horrid MIL as well although none of the yanking of dc from me though.

On her deathbed my mother told me to Always put plenty of room between us and my inlaws. Thankfully mine are in another county. But I so agree about not being bullied. I stand up to my MIL where everyone else is afraid of her. As respectfully as possible I stand up for myself and dc.

Mine is an alcoholic too which unpleasantly adds to the mix. When she starts to rant and rave I just change the subject, and keep changing it. When they come to visit and she starts, I just say, (any time after 8:00 pm!) "I have to go to bed now! bye!" Or during the day, I nip to the store, to work, Anywhere to get away for awhile.

So if you can't do that...distance yourself for sure. I've dealt with it for over 14 years and I've learned the less I engage the Way better I am.

Talking to her civilly about her actions doesn't work. All she will do is shout you down more loudly.

I agree with previous posters. Don't allow her into your home. Don't allow her to have any unsupervised contact. If she is rude to you on the phone , hang up. Have any phone calls between ILs and DS on speaker, so you can hang up if she is rude.

Before you visit, tell her that if she is rude to or about you then you will all leave immediately. And do it.

The poster who said that use of your first name is intended to drive a wedge between you and your son is spot on - she is trying to cement the position of nanna as most important by wiping out the closer mummy relationship, and relegating you to the role of general member of the public. You could deal with this by saying that you consider this rude, or by adopting a jokey tone to say 'what's nanna like? She's forgotten that I am your mummy and you are my little boy ! Shall we call her Mrs Bloggs to help her remember ?'

There is a good reason why her other children are non-contact. You also have the right to go non-contact.