Have a really bad relationship with MIL- could do with some feedback.

[bigbluecat]

I don't really know what I want from this post other than just to be able to talk (or rather type) it through, and to get a bit of advice on how to deal with this - let me know if I'm being unfair and to what extent, and if I'm not, tell me how to just smile and nod because I find it really hard...

I started a relationship with DH when we were both teenagers - we've been together for 7 years now. Neither of us were in great mental health back then and our relationship was awfully dysfunctional for a long time - he was quite emotionally abusive to me for years.

DH and I are ok now, but I bring up the past abuse because I feel that on some level I may blame MIL for causing it (she was not a very 'involved' mother and was/still is emotionally abusive towards FIL) and not helping me (I tried to tell her how DH was towards me at one point and it was like she was literally unable to comprehend what I was saying). I realise this may be unfair.

Things didn't start getting bad between me and MIL until I had DC1. She flat out told me that she was, in her words, "the matriarch of the family", and became very controlling and competitive with me.

An example: once, when DS was a baby, we were staying over the PILs' house and the train journey and mucked up his sleeping. I was trying to rock him to sleep and he was whingeing quite loudly. MIL came in and tried to pull DS out of my arms saying "I'll get the baby to sleep." I held onto him and said, politely, "Oh, no thank you, I'll do it." She kept pulling and said, "No, I'll take him, I'll be able to do it quicker." When I repeated that I'd do it (DS barely knew her a that point and was more comfortable with me) she flew into a rage and started swearing and shouting at me.

Another example: On DS's third birthday, PILs came over and we were sitting in the garden as DC unwrapped presents. DS handed DH a present to assemble. MIL said, "You'd better read the instructions first." I laughed and said, "Oh, DH never reads instructions!" (A fairly innocuous/jokey comment, I thought?) MIL snaps back, "Well you don't have to tell me that, he's my son and I know him better than you!" I frowned (not on purpose or in an intentionally confrontational way - I was hurt and taken aback) but didn't reply. She said, "You needn't frown like that! Of course I know him better! I've known him since he was a baby!" DH at this point tried to stick up for me, but he's not great with confrontation and she just changed the subject and talked over him until he backed down.

Those are the examples that first come to mind but there have been many, many others.

I realised how much it was bothering me today when DS (who is now nearly 4) told me today that he 'loves nanna more and wants to live with her forever'. I realise that whilst he does love his nanna, he is probably in this case confusing love with the fact that he enjoys staying over there and having sugary snacks aplenty and unlimited CBeebies. But it felt like a punch in the gut. The thought of him possibly saying this TO her fills me with absolute dread because I know I wouldn't hear the end of it (he once told her he liked her cottage pie more than mine and she absolutely crowed over it). If he had said that he loved, for example, my (lovely) grandma more than me, I wouldn't have cared - would perhaps even have been pleased that he felt so close to her. But I have felt a sort of angry bitterness all day and I think I am starting to dislike MIL perhaps disproportionately.

Those of you with terrible relationships with your MILs (or anyone comparable) - how do you deal with it? She is a fab nanna to DS and I appreciate that and am pleased for him that he has this relationship. But I still can't stand her.

Massive OP, sorry.

Doesn't matter how you'd handled it, it would have ended badly.

If she carries on in this manner you really will have to cut contact altogether.

Its very good to hear that your DH has agreed that there will be no more sleepovers. Will he stick to supporting you and that view?

Not surprised you have a sick feeling in your stomach. This is family, they have behaved terribly and any reasonable person has to draw a line at some point - but it's horrible facing the screaming to follow :(

just remember this is not you being unreasonable - it's very much her.

Her husband is probably heavily intimidated, bigblue. People who scream and shout tend to find themselves alone very quickly or else rule the roost with a rod of iron and no one dare cross them. Your husband is doing well to stand up to her actually. You say he used to be emotionally abusive - what was the pattern of abuse? is it feasible to say it came from the example he had, either similar to her or else its mirror, passive-aggressiveness due to the inability to express himself directly? Kudos to both of you that he was able to break the pattern!

Anyway, that apart, with some people either you have to knuckle under, to go NC or to keep very, very strong with setting boundaries. No options are easy really, but with some people there's just no reasonable fourth alternative :s

Hmm, I wonder why her older kids have cut contact with her, eh? Frankly it sounds like you are being a lot more tolerant than most people around her. Your FIL is probably scared to disagree.

If she's going to scream at you for a perfectly reasonable thing, she will need to see that there are limits to what she can get away with and still maintain a relationship where she gets to see your DS.

The arrangement where your DS is staying, has been coached to say he loves her more etc sounds so much like an abusive ex having access to DC. You have a massive benefit compared to that situation as your MIL doesn't have any rights to access. You are definitely doing the right thing saying no more sleepovers. I'd make sure one of you supervises all visits too.

Well ignoring it up until now hasn't got you anywhere!

Well done for standing up to her. You will have to keep it up.

Until she respects you and your position as the wife of her son and the mother of her grandson, then she doesn't get to have much of a relationship with your DS.

I didn't want to read and run.

I just wanted to let you have another voice telling you that what your MiL is doing is utterly wrong.

I am a MiL. I really don't like my DiL very much, she left my DS for another man after a being married for a very short time. She has made life really quite difficult for my DS and I really don't approve of her new man who smokes in the house and smokes drugs. I adore my DGD, just adore her. I would never, and I mean never say a bad word about my DiL to my DGD. I always defer to how my DiL brings her up, even if I disagree. If she asks for advice, I will help her, until she does, I keep my mouth shut, keep a happy smile on my face and maintain the status quo. My DiL is her mother, and her primary caregiver.

This is how it should be, what your MiL is doing is abusing you all and using your DS to do it.

bigbluecat am I remembering rightly in thinking that earlier in the thread you asked for ideas of excuses to give your PILs for reducing contacts to short visits by them only.

Your DS is 4, yes? Does that mean he will start school/reception/proper nursery after the summer? (not sure what school system you are in).

If so, simply say that, as this is the last summer before he enters into the formal education system, you want to spend as much time as possible with your son over the next few months and to be free to decide to just up and do things with him on a whim. He therefore won't be free for all day visits, sleepovers and extended visits ... although they are welcome to come and visit all three of you at home, but can they just check first because obviously you will be out a lot.

Smile and repeat as often as necessary.

Good luck with the pick up this morning.

I would not hang around any longer than necessary at the pick up and take your son home asap.

Your FIL is also playing a role in this overall familial dysfunction. He is what is known as a bystander who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He is also weak and you cannot at all rely on him to protect either of you from his wife's excesses of behaviour (he will continue to back her no matter what).

Just saw your updates, bigblue. Not surprised you've been feeling sick - must be awful to be on the receiving end of so much rage & spite.

The one positive here is that you don't need to worry any more about finding excuses for stopping future sleepovers - your MIL has just handed you the best possible reason on a plate.

You don't need to bring up any events from the past - her behaviour yesterday is enough. You're not going to leave your child with someone who has no control over her temper & who can't cope with a change in arrangements without becoming abusive. It seems pretty cut & dried to me - you don't leave your son there without you or DH in future, & if she can't be civil to the pair of you, she won't be seeing much of any of you.

I admire your restraint, actually. If I'd been sitting there being insulted over the 'phone, I'd have found it very hard to stop myself from pointing out that it wasn't me who'd managed to alienate nearly every member of my own family.

Sorry to hear this OP I have a similar problem, I now have no contact with my mil as she is such a nightmare. Dp has come to terms with it, the kids see her and have said similar things re having so much fun with nanny as they eat rubbish & watch tv all day long and can make huge mess. They see her I don't, it works for us in a way

When I first read that he was there for a sleepover my thought was "Go and get him now."

I hope you're on your way there this morning.

Going NC with family is massively difficult and heartbreaking but sometimes it's better for all concerned. In this case it defnitely is.

Good luck

Icerocket ... I hope she isnt say bad things about you to the children. And that they don't go there that often.

I also think your ds has been manipulated and fed that line to say to you. He's innocently repeated it and you say now he's unpleasantly aware that saying what nanna likes and what probably got him a lot of positive attention upsets his mummy, and that's a very unkind thing for your MiL to have subjected him to. Adults who play games like this with children for their own ends shouldn't be left alone with children. Of course she will want him alone without you or dh there.

People who throw tantrums and scream do it because it gets their needs met, ie it usually works well for them. A way to handle it may be to just not engage: if the screaming starts you put the phone down or walk away and make it clear that nothing more will happen until she can calm herself down and talk like a grown up. Detaching yourself and knowing as soon as the screaming starts you're going to say a scripted phrase or just leave may help you feel calmer when handling it.

It may also help to think about the idea that for some people, 'I win' has to mean 'you lose'. Unless they feel the other person has lost, they can't let the situation go or feel ok about it. ie struggling to cope with a child loving a range of people; to them there has to be a winner and a loser, and the loser has to be clearly established. These are all her problems and not yours, but it may help you take a step back and not get hooked up in the drama if you work out the games she's playing to meet her own needs.

It's about time your MIL learnt that shouting and screaming does not achieve much when communicating and/or negotiating in an adult way.

You have set boundaries and taken control of your own son. Stick to your guns and avoid your son being fed poison and rubbish. He is being taught how to be hurtful, passive/aggressive and subtly to 'take sides' and will be taught how to demonise you. MIL is setting herself up as the goodie and you as the baddie. This is completely wrong. Sounds like she succeeded with her son, until he turned it around. Unfortunately I don't think she is ever going to change.

You did well now you can see the true picture and the effects of manipulation upon small children.

These personalities are not used to being stood up to and are enraged when someone does. Their problem. Be the adult, be consistent, and don't rise to her bait. Having a mentally healthy family [mum, dad and son] is the major priority here.

[I'd be tempted to tell her a few more home truths myself....]

How were things today when you picked up?

How did it go bigbluecat ?

I wouldn't be surprised if she is putting those words into his mouth about 'staying at her house forever.' If it makes you feel better, you have already won. You've got his son, she hasn't. You have the life that she loved i.e. bringing up a baby. MILs miss all that and it comes out as jealousy. I should know. My MIL is a twat.

I think you are being naive that just because she's dense she won't be poisonous and cause real harm to your family. It is commendable that you feel compassion for her but that needs to be held within tight boundaries. you may struggle with feeling the need to respect her as an older woman/generation but frankly she is not a well woman and you must put some very strong boundaries in place. Don't make your family a living sacrifice to her poison. Ds must never stay there again or have unsupervised access. You have the perfect excuse to severely cut contact for now: her phone abuse. Really, you must stand up to this kind of bully and play her at her own game.

My FIL was a terrific bully and the entire family quaked at even the thought of him. It took him being rude to and about my baby for me to take him on fair and square. My husband nearly fainted with fear. Things went quiet for a while afterwards but from that point on he was very respectful towards me. I think he valued someone standing up to him, probably because no-one ever had.

Admittedly, he was a deadly type but not a shrieky sort. Shriek back at her, speak in a language she understands. I don't mean emotional shrieking but use it as a device.

Meerka, No my dcs don't go often, dp is usually there and she has once blamed me for a fall out when dcs asked her about it. I set her straight about it and she now knows everything gets back and that she won't see them again if it continues. It causes conflict for us as dp does defend her but I just discuss the facts and don't get drawn in to anything. The family slag me off and call me a bitch to each other but I know the truth and that's enough for me. It's taken a while and a lot of standing my ground but I am now in control and on guard for her next wicked tactic

icerocket sounds like you have a horrible situation under control - kudos, takes so much out of you! Damn hard to find a place to stand when you're dealing with someone like this :s Best of luck to you and a glass of

You wanted a reason to cut the sleepovers out. She's just given it to you with her behaviour. Hope things went ok today.

I agree with ADish. Smile charmingly, respond happily and do what the hell you want to exclude her.

I had a frankly loony MIL who was incredibly jealous of any attention which was not directed at her and prone to ridiculously childish tantrums.

I decided to exclude her from our lives as much as possible and did this successfully without ever having a confrontation by being sweet but vague the whole time e.g. "that sounds lovely I'll get back to you on that" (then never did), "mm it would be so nice to see you but there is a lot in the diary at the moment I'll just check" (then never did) also lots of strategic childhood ailments which made it impossible for us to see her and when she was abusive to me on the phone Joyce Grenfell type cheerfulness "Oh I'm sorry X it's lovely to speak to you, but there's someone at the door, I'll call you back in a minute". then of course I never did. Call screening is also a fab investment. Strangely she found it really difficult to get through to us on the phone.

She got quite bearable in her later years as she knew I had the upper hand but could never quite pinpoint why.

Sadly my narc exH was definitely the product of her upbringing, but that's another story.