I totally dislike my daughter (long and ranty)

[ohthatsokthen]

DD now 21. Backstory she has been problematic since 13. Started with truancy, smoking etc. Then absconded from school and was found unconscious on the school field with an empty bottle of vodka. We then discovered she was bulimic and self harming. Many trips to the Drs later we were referred to PCAHMS for counselling. There are no known issues in our family, me and her dad still together, he has been a fantastic dad and we have both tried our best to support and encourage her. In her words "you are epic parents and I had a lovely childhood, I don't know why I do these things". Signed off from PCAHMS as deemed "helped". Over the next few years she went to college and got a part time job. She was then sent home from work as she was drunk, this continued and escalated until she was drinking all day and being abusive. I met with her work who offered to help - her words "all teenagers drink", took her to the drs "my mum is imagining it all, I am fine". To cut a long story short, the drinking escalated and she became threatening and violent and I snapped (probably not the best thing to do) and threw her out. We had a number of police visits due to threats and her trying to kick the door in. Police told me I was a victim of dv. She found a room, we paid the rent and deposit for 6 months. She got thrown out from that room because she kicked off and started smashing the place up. At this point I cut contact as she was making me ill with the stress. She moved in with her boyfriend, and his junkie father and moved onto drugs (speed, crack), got raped by her drug dealer. I can't even talk about that. She moved into a nice room, to get away and we paid the deposit. All this time still drinking but miraculously because of her manager she clung on to her job. She was then given notice on her room as the ll was getting married so she went off on a rare one and her threw her out that night. In desperation, the next day I found her a bedsit albeit in a halfway house type place, paid the deposit and the rent. She is still there. 5 months ago she quit drinking, we were so proud of her. I told her that she needed to get help as she obviously has issues (she says she wants to feel incredible all the time and can't bear the mundane day to day life). It transpires that although she isn't drinking the drug use has escalated, to the point she owes dealers. She came round last night and was vile, screaming and shouting at me. Told me all of this was her fault, she hated her life, we should take her back home and she would stop. I forced her to take the bedsit, if I hadn't she wouldn't be doing drugs. She hates her job, nobody has offered her a promotion and she's been there 3 years. I was very calm and told her, nobody had done this to her but herself and I wasn't going to discuss it anymore as she never listened (we asked her to attend Narcotics anonymous and the drs - she won't because they tell her things she doesn't want to hear). She was hateful, vicious and mean. I have got to the point where I totally dislike her and my husband says he despises her and can't be in her company. Sometimes I wish she was dead so that we didn't have to live like this and she wasn't suffering anymore. dh retires next year and we are going to sell up and move away (plan was to buy a house with annexe for dd if she got clean but that is never going to happen). All we wanted for her was to be happy, and either do uni/travel/or a job she liked. Whilst we are not perfect parents (who is) we have always encouraged and supported her and tried to do what we think is best. I am now at the point where I think - I've done everything I can, you are an adult and its up to you. I think this stems from growing up with both parents as alcoholics. I know she is a tortured soul but I can't help someone who refuses to take responsibility and help herself. Sorry for the essay, rant over - just wanted to get it off my chest!!! Thanks if you managed to read to the end

I have bipolar and would recommend you don't try to self - diagnose. It is an extremely complex condition and can take years to get a diagnosis. She clearly has a problem that began as a teenager - it is not normal to self harm or want to commit suicide but there are many other conditions, both psychiatric and psychological, that could be causing this aside from bipolar.

If you self-label things you put it in a box and then what really needs to be done is pushed aside. Also living with bipolar is not easy even when treated - there is no magic pill that makes it go away. The medication helps but there is also a huge amount of self management and support needed from loved ones to keep going. It would be easier to approach it with an open mind, hear what the health professionals have to say and let them deal with it. Don't contaminate the thinking by leaning towards just bipolar.

Regardless of what it is, she needed proper help as a teenager and did not receive it hence the awful situation you all find yourselves in now.

Sadly mental health services for young people are so patchy and support for both parent and child lacking that many fall between the cracks. I am very sorry this has happened to you all. I am not saying this is anyone's fault - how can you take action when you don't know what the problem was?

Difficult though it is, all the talk of is it this or that doesn't address the rot cause - short of a section to force her into psychiatric care, and that is extremely serious to warrant that level of intervention, there is nothing that they can do unless your daughter seeks help herself. The comments from others about being at rock bottom are true. She has no incentive to help herself if she knows she has a bolthole with you. And she has to be clean to get assessed as they don't know if it is the drugs/alcohol talking or any psychosis/illness. It wouldn't be accurate otherwise.

springydaffs is spot on in saying there is no 'type'. These things strike people from all backgrounds. And no matter the age, anyone can benefit from good counselling to deal with childhood issues or current stressful events. It puts things into a very different perspective when you start to unravel the past. If you don't address it then things will never change.

You also say you were good parents - that's a subjective statement. I absolutely don't say this to be unkind as you are dealing with such heartache, but do consider that it could be something as parents that also had an impact. As you say, no one is perfect but inadvertently things could have happened from your side that would never have occurred to you. Thinking you have provided a good upbringing for your daughter is just through your eyes. For her to say it - she's carrying around a ton of guilt and I wonder if she is hesitant to say anything negative about her upbringing as a result? Just pondering as a lot of your story resonates (except you are much nicer than my family!) and sometimes it helps to go back and then go forwards. I for so long was the one who had done everything wrong it took a lot of counselling and courage to say that actually my parents too played a large part.

Also wondering if something happened at school? Or extreme PMT? I ask that as I have been reading recently about women who have suffered greatly and not been taken seriously about how out of balance their hormones are. The fact this started at 13 with her is maybe something to check?

I wish you luck and hope you and your daughter find peace and she can access the help she needs.

OP, you have my heartfelt sympathy, I had ten horrific years with my son. He went to Thailand once and I hoped that he would get arrested at the airport and never come back. Unless a person has walked in your shoes they have no idea how bad it gets.

We have had almost no contact now for fifteen years, and it is good. He has turned up a few times asking for money. He is like a stranger.

I wish you luck OP and I so hope that you gain some peace.

oh living . Your post is very helpful, I am not sure what is the matter but it is definitely some form of MH issue. Yes parenting is subjective, all I can say is we have encouraged and supported her. She puts a lot of pressure on herself, when she was a child she wanted everything she did to be perfect, I used to say it doesn't matter as long as you enjoyed it/are pleased with the result etc. She blames herself for "failing" because she didn't go to uni (she failed the interview because she was drunk). We have told her all we want is for her to be happy, that in my opinion is the mark of a successful life and something to be proud of.

Oh Bruins so true - you really can't contemplate it unless you have experienced it. My lovely neighbour suggested dd would grow out of it. Then she came home one day to her drunk on the lawn and saw her trying to kick my door in. After that she said I am really worried you might get a phone call to say she is dead, she didn't believe how bad it was until she saw it. I am glad you have some peace now but I am sure that it came at a price x

A close family member of mine was very much like this, she was diagnosed with bipolar. It sounds so similar a situation. I know how hard it can be. Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do, unless she wants to make that change. :(

In the case of my family member it wasn't until she was nearly 23, that she decided to make changes and now at 25 has made real progress. It might be that in time she will come round but I don't want to give you that hope if it means you will tolerate more from her, when you shouldn't.

damn, what a horrible situatoin ohthat :( so sorry it's this bad for you and your husband.

Sometimes there just isn't a reason why people go off the rails. :(

Having said that, is it remotely possible that there could be a hormonal imbalance, like living says the age at which she went off the rails could be significant, start of puberty.

In the end, like everyone says you can't force her to try to sort herself out until she herself is ready. Sadly, have to add to that "if she ever is". At a certain point you and your husband need to look after yourselves. It must be very hard to contemplate not giving her your address but if that's what you feel is necessary, then you have to go for that. Just leave the door open a bit by email or a phone. I imagine she might become heavily verbally abusive over the phone - could you give her a new number to ring or else change your existing number and keep the old one just for her? Being rung up 20 times on the run wouldn't be fun.

wish you good luck and some peace in your lives.

Yes, ohthat peace in our lives has come at a price, but it was a price that we were prepared to pay.
My daughter lost her only sibling and we lost our only son. Even now when the doorbell goes at an unusual time we look at each other apprehensively.

When you decide that you have done all you can, then you have to acknowledge that you must protect yourselves. Do not feel guilty, your lives have to have some value too.

At the risk of psychoanalysing you (when I have no right!) and to flog this a bit more (sorry) - you have put aside/blanked off your parents' alcoholism, it isn't a stretch that, when she exhibits the exact same behaviour, you blank her off as well. That's just a for instance, and there will be many of those.

I'm sure someone is going to tell me off for pushing this. I have friends with almost exactly this scenario (though their daughter has been to prison a number er of times - her mother works for the prison service!) and it so obvious that their daughter's issues lend a huge part to the family dynamic, though my friends speak about their daughter in a very similar way to you, feel they have done e drything possible EXCEPT face their own issues. It stands to reason that we will feel

O bum - we will feel antipathy to the part of ourselves we resolutely reject, and she is a technicolour example of what you reject. It's not as simple as 'she is an addict (etc) - though in one sense it is, just not the whole picture.

I'm sorry to go on, though. You didn't say whether you had ever had family therapy. I have a daughter with MH issues who is doing her best to break what is left of my heart. I know it's not my fault but I also know that I come from a very troubled background, so did her father, and all that will have factored into the end result.

I do wish you well though, of course and me too

Alcohol / Drug addiction is a chronic relapsing condition. If giving up those things was easy then there would be no drug addicts. I doubt anyone would deliberately choose that life knowing there were alternatives.

In some ways you can compare it to over eating - personally I'm a bit over weight, I don't want to be and I know how to change it, I also know the health benefits of doing so but I've tried and failed so many times. Not because I'm a bad or weak person but because I get something positive from snuggling up on the sofa and eating crisps I get delicious crisps for example

Try to take some of the blame off your DD and hopefully you'll be able to be less angry because it's you that gets hurt by that anger as much as anyone.

That said, you don't have to put up with being abused by anyone in your life and it's perfectly acceptable for you to stop helping / reduce or even cut contact. You can't save your DD so you have to look after yourself.

Please get in touch with Al-anon and Nar-anon for some support for you and do consider some counselling - it must have been an incredibly hard time for you and your husband .

Yes sorry but I agree with Springydaffs. I don't think any of us can help our DC's unless we face up to our own issues. We may think they are unconnected but as she says, they feed into the final result. Not dealing with our own issues pretty much dooms us to be unable to help with our DC's issues. But however you choose to deal with it, I do wish you all the best.

You need counseling. Addiction is a family disease. At least go to al anon. You almost definitely introduced certain dynamics into the family by never getting counseling yourself. It's not your fault but it's your responsibility to address your own part of the family illness.

Yes, it's the recurring cycle if we continue as our parents did and this is then passed on/projected to our children in one way or another. And sometimes in trying so hard to be the opposite to abusive parents we end up doing damage anyway. I was so determined not to be like my mother but without the psychotherapy had no clue how to be different. It's not easy but I think i can parent better now than she did. But I needed help. With your background I'd really recommend therapy and counselling, not just so you have support right now but to look to the past to see if there are things there that can help right the problems of today.

I relate to your dd on the need for everything to be perfect. It actually did stem to problems with my parents which surprised me. The pressure children can put on themselves is extraordinary and so damaging. Combine that with a mental health illness and the two are quite lethal combinations, in childhood and adulthood. This is just my experience of course, but something has happened somewhere to your dd and she finds it far too painful to recount (I suspect). It's this spiral of pressure and guilt that ends up crippling you. So she self-medicates through drugs and alcohol. Sure there are people who get hooked as adults throw hanging out with the wrong crowd in search of 'fun', but from what you describe I doubt it. We know she was raped (so sorry :() and was self harming from a very young age. I can't believe there isn't something else to look for.

I was sexually abused from a young age and denied it until I was 19, but didn't finally get treatment for it until I was 33 alongside my bipolar diagnosis. It is possible for her to a) deny anything and b) to have a psychological condition to treat as a result of some trauma alongside a psychiatric condition. And the trauma can actually trigger the bipolar for example, which it did in my case. You can hide it, you can hold down jobs but until you address it you can't run away from the demons inside and things like alcohol are used to detract from the reality. I look back on my 20s now and wonder how I wasn't pegged an alcoholic. Hardly touch the stuff now but back then omg.

Sadly none of my ramblings will help as she's an adult now and needs to do this for herself. I am just wondering what has led her to being like this today. You do have to look after yourself too and draw a line in the sand somewhere. Let her know you are there for her when she is ready but enough is enough.

I think you may want to have a look at Personality Disorder, in particular Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder ( used to be called Borderline PD).
To me (professional) that sounds by far the most likely diagnosis. Self loathing, drug and alcohol misuse, aggression, inability to emphasise, lack of self control, inability to take responsibility for own actions/ always blaming others, the expectation that life owes you/you deserve a perfect life and not wanting to deal with the banalities. May be Antisocial PD also present (destroying flat, fights, extreme entitlement, inability to emphasise).
Remote diagnosis is always difficult, though- assessment by a good professional is key. But yes, that needs to be done sober (but not 3 months sober! Nobody with Dual Diagnosis would ever get a diagnosis!)
NB forget her being sectioned- there are extremely strict rules for that, and this situation does not qualify! ONLY risk of harm to self or others AND refusal of treatment AND likely presence of acute phase Severe Mental illness ( I.e. schizophrenia or Bipolar).Note all of these have to be present at the same time

Not going to speculate about any conditions.

Does your dd have anything she actually enjoys? Outside of alcohol and drugs. It strikes me that being as she went "off the rails" at such a young she she has had pretty little time to understand herself and to actually grow tastes and other pleasures. She can develop these without being clean. And they can form a foundation for your relationship, and a motivation for her to get clean in the future.

Lots of former addicts find time consuming hobbies which are healthy outlets for almost "obsessive" needs. Art, music, sport, writing. I am biased because obviously it's what I like but for me exercise has become something as fulfilling as alcohol and drugs (which I probably started taking around 14, but never to the extent as your daughter). It's a difficult one because drug users are not usually in brilliant health to start exercising and women especially may come from backgrounds where it is completely new to them, but as I said these (the other suggestions included) are all things your dd can start experimenting with before the commitment to being clean.

If you are incredibly lucky she will decide she loves baking. I'm not sure that's as common but an old school friend took it up when she first got a methadone prescription (she was only 22 then!). Anyway she is completely clean now, self employed baking cakes and is hopeful of her kids getting to live with their mum again someday. It's been 2 years.

I don't want to completely overlook the differences between these cases and your daughter (enjoying causing suffering, violence, rape, etc) but I've tried not to dwell on them either I don't know much about psychiatry, etc.
Everyone needs some joy and hope in their life and I'm not sure how anyone gets clean without understanding what how to get there's, and what they are.

Hope that's all made sense! Feels very familiar as I am only 23 and have now known a few friends go down "the wrong road"- something which I honestly hadn't expected for some of them and which has destroyed "them". You never think it will happen to people you know or care about.

To the OP - I think if you go down the counselling route then do it for yourself and not as a means to getting your daughter off drugs and alcohol because that has to come from her. Her problems are way bigger than you talking to someone about the past and to be frank if someone said to me if you have counselling it will help you cope with a drunk and drugged up daughter coming to your door and getting up to all sorts of terrible things, I'd tell them absolutely not. Her recovery has to come from her and to be blaming it not happening on parents who dont go for counselling is passing the buck and taking responsibility away form the person who's the addict. It just seems nowadays that what and who a person is, is always someone else's fault.

You talk of moving away and not letting her know where you are going, but I think this is just extreme thinking given how hard things are. I'm not sure you'd be able to do it on the day, but if you can - then go because it may very well be that your daughter has to get into some serious trouble, and deteriorate more than she has till now, for her to get the help she needs.

My beloved mother had Bi-polar disorder, plus traits of schizophrenia, she died in our local psychiatric hospital after she had been sectioned. If your daughter does have Bi-Polar disorder then I have no clue as to what you can do because short of locking her in a room away from drugs and alcohol apart from medication she would perhaps need for her condition - I really don't see what else you can be doing if the help and even the diagnosis she needs is not available. My mum had to be sectioned in the end, it was horrible, but it got to the stage my dad/we lived in fort knox in order to keep her safe and one day even that wasn't enough and she got out and what happened next is not for the telling here.

I wish you and your daughter well.

Fee thank you, you have summed dd up in a nutshell. I will raise this with her dr next week (we are going to encourage her to attend the appointment but if she won't we will go anyway and see what he says).

Granny yes you are right, my past is immaterial we are where we are now, and I know people mean well but suggesting I get counselled I really don't need it. I am a firm believer in keep moving forward and not dwelling on what could have been. I feel the same about dd we can't help where we are now but she has 2 options, face up and take the help or carry on doing what she is doing. If she takes the help we will walk with her, if not, then we will walk away. I will be able to do this, I am very good at cutting myself off from harmful situations thought I can't say the same for dh

I am so sorry you and your poor mum suffered [hugs]

I am sorry, I see you have been going through hell and I have a daughter myself, I wonder who she will turn out to be every day.
Alcoholism runs in mine and my husband's family and my dad is bipolar.
My mum likes to think she gave us wonderful childhood, my siblings and I would tell you a very different story. Luckily, my sister and I are seeking professional help for our childhood troubles, but we moved far away from our dysfunctional family as teens and although we had lots of troubles as adults, now we are opened to be helped with counselling and find peace.
My brother is an alcoholic as he stayed closed to the dysfunction.
What I wanted to say is that you should open your mind regarding your own issues. Maybe you would be able to understand and help your daughter better if you did.
It's heartbreaking to see this started when she was 13 and she/you didn't get proper support and things got this bad.
It seems that your daughter is carrying a lot of blame and guilty, and I'm not surprised she isn't willing to seek help, you do the same.

You've done more than enough. Sometimes people can't be helped, and there's no need to make yourself I'll over it xxx

She is not her disease true, but she also isn't our daughter anymore - she has been populated by some sort of demon

No such thing as demons.

She is your daughter and always will be.

I agree that you need to address your issues, which there is no denying exist, before you can help your daughter.

I know what its like to feel like your family member simply isn't there anymore, mh issues can make a person behave, act and even look different to the point where there's little connect between their current persona and their old one. So can addiction. They are still there, however without medication/therapy/treatment they may not appear again, or not for a long time. It's very sad.

I think people are being a little harsh on you here, it is a personal choice to go into counselling, it is not a magic wand, and I don't think if you go get therapy, your daughter is going to transform into a caring sharing human being overnight. If you want to go- for you, to cope with the horrendousness of it all, then go, if you don't- it won't be this that is the key to your daughter's recovery, it is her willingness to engage with dual diagnosis services (mh/addiction). I notice that no-one suggests that dads go into therapy to solve their children's drug and alcohol problems and do think mums sometimes take the disproportionate amount of the blame for things that they couldn't have done much about- once your dd is in a network of friends who also abuse/have mh problems, they are going to be a stronger pull than you unfortunately.

I also think people are underestimating how much you have already done for her, some are talking as if you have barely helped her whereas you detail time and again that after violent and abusive behaviour, you reached out your hand, paid for her to go into sheltered accommodation, hostels, where she has done such bad things she is then thrown out. You even talk about an annex for her although I think that is a big mistake for you as it will bring this anxiety and stress to your doorstep every day and your dd will not have the same motivation to engage with services (which now do require proper engagement, and not just providing a bed for the night).

Good luck with it all and remember sometimes you have to protect yourself. Tough love and all that.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I would give her one last shot.

If she's saying she wants to be home, I would let her come home. I would enforce NA, no drugs, no alcohol, work and home.

She's your daughter regardless, I would have to give one last chance at looking after her myself.

I would enforce NA, no drugs, no alcohol, work and home obviously if the OP could have enforced this from aged 13 she would have done. Her dd is violent, has an alcohol problem, and has been thrown out of even places that are used to addicts. She doesn't seem to care about hurting others. This lack of empathy, which may be due to personality disorder/mh/addiction is exactly why the OP has to protect herself first, and then cope with her dd second.

I hope she gets help OP, I do think better diagnosis/treatment, especially looking at personality disorders/bipolar, with proper evaluation over time could help her if you could get an 'in' somehow. And of course yes to any help yourself- it might help to go to A/NA-anon to see that there will be lots of other 'good enough' (not perfect) parents who are also going through this.