I totally dislike my daughter (long and ranty)

[ohthatsokthen]

DD now 21. Backstory she has been problematic since 13. Started with truancy, smoking etc. Then absconded from school and was found unconscious on the school field with an empty bottle of vodka. We then discovered she was bulimic and self harming. Many trips to the Drs later we were referred to PCAHMS for counselling. There are no known issues in our family, me and her dad still together, he has been a fantastic dad and we have both tried our best to support and encourage her. In her words "you are epic parents and I had a lovely childhood, I don't know why I do these things". Signed off from PCAHMS as deemed "helped". Over the next few years she went to college and got a part time job. She was then sent home from work as she was drunk, this continued and escalated until she was drinking all day and being abusive. I met with her work who offered to help - her words "all teenagers drink", took her to the drs "my mum is imagining it all, I am fine". To cut a long story short, the drinking escalated and she became threatening and violent and I snapped (probably not the best thing to do) and threw her out. We had a number of police visits due to threats and her trying to kick the door in. Police told me I was a victim of dv. She found a room, we paid the rent and deposit for 6 months. She got thrown out from that room because she kicked off and started smashing the place up. At this point I cut contact as she was making me ill with the stress. She moved in with her boyfriend, and his junkie father and moved onto drugs (speed, crack), got raped by her drug dealer. I can't even talk about that. She moved into a nice room, to get away and we paid the deposit. All this time still drinking but miraculously because of her manager she clung on to her job. She was then given notice on her room as the ll was getting married so she went off on a rare one and her threw her out that night. In desperation, the next day I found her a bedsit albeit in a halfway house type place, paid the deposit and the rent. She is still there. 5 months ago she quit drinking, we were so proud of her. I told her that she needed to get help as she obviously has issues (she says she wants to feel incredible all the time and can't bear the mundane day to day life). It transpires that although she isn't drinking the drug use has escalated, to the point she owes dealers. She came round last night and was vile, screaming and shouting at me. Told me all of this was her fault, she hated her life, we should take her back home and she would stop. I forced her to take the bedsit, if I hadn't she wouldn't be doing drugs. She hates her job, nobody has offered her a promotion and she's been there 3 years. I was very calm and told her, nobody had done this to her but herself and I wasn't going to discuss it anymore as she never listened (we asked her to attend Narcotics anonymous and the drs - she won't because they tell her things she doesn't want to hear). She was hateful, vicious and mean. I have got to the point where I totally dislike her and my husband says he despises her and can't be in her company. Sometimes I wish she was dead so that we didn't have to live like this and she wasn't suffering anymore. dh retires next year and we are going to sell up and move away (plan was to buy a house with annexe for dd if she got clean but that is never going to happen). All we wanted for her was to be happy, and either do uni/travel/or a job she liked. Whilst we are not perfect parents (who is) we have always encouraged and supported her and tried to do what we think is best. I am now at the point where I think - I've done everything I can, you are an adult and its up to you. I think this stems from growing up with both parents as alcoholics. I know she is a tortured soul but I can't help someone who refuses to take responsibility and help herself. Sorry for the essay, rant over - just wanted to get it off my chest!!! Thanks if you managed to read to the end

springy -

I suggested securing excellent private input upthread.
But OP feels that her Dd wont co-operate so it is not worth trying.

I don't have little ones as it happens and I do have some relevant personal experience in our wider family, that's where I'm posting from. I don't think my post fits the "is that all you can say" tag from Moreis
Just take it as one contribution amongst many that taken together could offer some ways forward?

springs they were all very defeated people, living in chaos and managing it by gathering at the meetings to share their experiences. it was obviously useful to them but I was shocked as basically they attended so many meetings a week I think just to be out of the house. The message was we can help you to live with it, that wasnt a solution for me, I need to be able to move forward not live with it. On a positive note, dd is here at the moment and has agreed to see the dr next week. However, most likely she will change her mind on the day. We have talked and I have asked her to just listen to what he says and then make a decision about what she wants to do.

That sounds encouraging OP

Fingers crossed :)

Though I'm very much aware of how trite that may sound.

ohthat I can completely understand why you chose the post title you did but it's also clear from what you have written that you love and care deeply for your daughter.

MN should absolutely be a safe place where you feel you can offload and have a rant however more and more it seems you have to deal with a lot of unnecessary and unhelpful comments but in amongst all of this there has been some sage advice and compassion.

I think that you are right in your approach to dealing with this because you and your husband have to safe guard yourselves and your relationship. You have a right to a life and a future and if 'managing your DD at arms length' is how you do this then that is what you need to do. I would stick with your plan to retire and move away this gives both you and your husband something to look forward to.

As someone previously mentioned if your DD hasn't already been in contact with or had support from Dual Diagnosis services this may be something to look into.

Do you have support for yourself and your husband? I'm not talking about counselling but a support service whose priority is you, that help you in dealing with the here and now, that supports you by listening and not judging. There are lots of good voluntary sector services about if that was something you feel might be useful.

Take care of yourself and stay strong, you sound like a wonderful parent in an impossible situation.

Just a thought - have you looked at any of maryz’s old threads over on MN teenagers? If you search for maryz she used to run a couple of support threads for parents of troubled teens (many with violence/ alcohol/ drugs issues). She had some similar experiences herself with her oldest DS. (Apologies if this is already old hat)

You sound like a very loving caring mum and I hope your DD accepts some help.

Family therapy would work just as well without her there. In fact you, and your husband could say things you wouldn't be able to say with her there eg that you feel she would be better off dead.

Surprised at your experience of al-anon but it pays to shop around. Peer-to-peer support can't be underestimated IMO.

OP: The best thing you can do is to find help (either group, individual or family therapy) for yourself and the rest of your family to cope and to survive this long, long journey with an addict.

You need to focus and preserve your own health and preserve and value the rest of your family in order to best support your daughter over the long term. Even if she drys out - she is an alcoholic for life and can relapse or fall into another addiction at any time.

Searching for a solution to addiction is futile - there is not one out there -- there is only one "in there" - within your daughter.

She may or may not find it in her own time. The penny might drop in 2 weeks, 2 years, 20 years or never.

You should not choose ride this roller-coaster with her but you can choose to show "detached love" - look on her with pity rather than anger if you can - always keep communication and emotional support open (ie just listen) - but do not pick up and try to fix or clear up for her. She knows the options, she has to make any move herself.

I wish you strength and calm to watch her on her roller coaster from the side lines -- try to find or build joy and focus in the other areas if you are not to waste your life on this.

OP I know a lot of families who live with alcoholics and believe me not one of them goes Alanon just to get out of the house. Their lives are destroyed because they live with an addicted person. Most of them still love the addict even though their lives have been ruined. I have been somewhat along the road you travelled. My DD is younger than yours and I freely admit that there have been times when I wished she would just go away without knowing where or how. That feeling was me unable to cope. I know you have had enough.

It's a totally shit situation but believe me you do need help for yourself if you think she is bulimic because she likes food and that she takes drugs because she says she likes it. Just because a professional told you that you are the kind of person that doesn't need help does not mean that is true. Get a second opinion. It just might help, if it doesn't nothing is lost. It seems to me that you are trying to be stoic, probably because you had to be with alcoholic parents. Children go off the rails with the best parents in the world. I am not the best parent and have a lot to learn. Seek help for yourself. I know you think I am nuts but you were not parented properly and it does have an impact. This is not your fault!

Dear Op

Thank you for posting, as I am living the same life as you, and I am taking some of the advice that you have been given.

Actually, no I am not, I am reading some comments and thinking, you have no idea what you are talking about!

I was parented without outside issues, so I don't know where I went wrong.

I have accessed numerous doctors therapists etc, and they all sort of receded away or referred to others without helping us. Or, okay, see you in 6 weeks...... CBT helps only the receptive, same as DBT, same as ad's. These things help and I am pleased that they do for some people, because the expectations are met

To someone like your daughter and my son, sitting with someone for an hour a week does not help. They beetle off to Tesco without a second thought - these kids are left behind, this is why they disengage. They KNOW a chat is not going to help. These people have NOT LIVED OUR LIVES. So how do they think they can offer advice?

I agree with Deepest statement, 'searching for a solution is futile' I have spent 3 years searching, there ain't one. If they like what they are doing, then we are done.

I am not out to offend anyone, but as a mother, this is so so hard to live alongside.
My son is a lost soul too - he will not be here for long. In fact he doesn't want to reach the age of 24. He is 24 tomorrow.

I've PMed you OP. x

Actually I have a lot of sympathy for you op for many reasons. My son was sectioned at 14 for nearly two years after violent behaviour which descended into full blown mental health problems.
If i can help in any way pm me

Just dipping back in with what I hope are useful points for you OP:

• I saw up thread someone said that bipolar can be wrongly diagnosed and instead the person has Aspergers. This is very true and happens far more often and is bad because the medication is all wrong. This can lead to more physical problems (bipolar medication is toxic as well as causing dysfunction of the thyroid) and also the person is not receiving the correct treatment so everyone is stuck in the same place. A friend of mine has just been rediagnosed with Aspergers after living with an incorrect bipolar diagnosis for 14 years. So hopefully when your daughter access help one day this is something that is taken into consideration.

• if you would like to know more in a non scary way, Stephen Fry did a wonderful two part documentary on bipolar in 2009 which is very informative. For Aspergers, check out this book by Claire Sainsbury (of the supermarket family) on living life as a schoolchild with autism. Granted your DD is 21 and outside of the age group but it might help to generally understand more about the condition and if this is your dd.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1849200009?pc_redir=1405215120&robot_redir=1

• I can only speak from the perspective of bipolar and borderline personality disorder (BPD) but if this is what your daughter has, I cannot even begin to explain the continual pain and anguish that life can be like. To describe it as dark feelings doesn't even come close. Sometimes I felt like I had 1,000 howling dervishes in my head. It's actually quite an apt description that you use, to call them deamons. Certainly for me that's what it felt like. Also part of the condition is intense paranoia so going to see medical professionals can be nigh on impossible for some - you're convinced they are going to do something to you like scientific testing.

• drugs and alcohol are used to numb the pain. So self medicating in a sense. And the pain is so intense inside anything that makes it stop is worth it. And the fear. A huge amount of fear. Also, in a manic or depressive episode you have NO control of your actions. None. It is terrifying. And of course all that self medicating makes the condition worse and exacerbates the symptoms. But you can't get treatment because you must be sober. It's one of the worst possible vicious circles. If this is what your dd has, then she honestly really cannot help it. And to someone in a psychosis there is literally nothing you can do to persuade them otherwise.

• meerka and others are also spot on when they say that sometimes, people just end up on drink and drugs for no other reason than, well, just because. No bad in the past, no health issues, just one of those very sad things. I am no professional, and I doubt your DD comes under this category but it is possible. And nothing you could do would change it.

Bipolar can, and does kill. Many of us live daily with thoughts of death and dying and how to end it. Stephen Fry shows this very well in the documentary. My heart breaks to read yours,and others, stories of people in a spiral of destruction. There, but for the grace of God, go I, is a phrase I often think to myself. If it had not been for now DH picking me off the floor and having the strength to show me my behaviour and thoughts were not normal I would have been dead by my early 30s. There is no doubt in my mind. I did not have substance abuse issues but others which were equally damaging.

Also my family were not supportive as you have been. I was labelled the difficult one and dumped as a teenager. My mother failed me on so many levels and I don't see that from your posts. It is perhaps because of this that I managed to hit my rock bottom and proactively sought help. But it took years to even reach that point. I still think you need to withdraw from your dd, hard as it must be to do so. It must come from her, self management of her condition. You have to want to do it and face those deamons down. But oh! it is very, very hard.

We do have moments of blinding clarity even at our lowest ebb. There is hope for your dd yet. And treatment. Bipolar, aspergers or anything else does not have to ruin a life if well treated. It's not an easy road but we people living with mental health conditions are worth it in the long run :)

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Dr's appointment brings some action on the situation and that your dd attends.

I agree with the poster that said you need to ask the GP for referral to dual diagnosis (mental health and addiction together) services. Sometimes you can self-refer in or ask for referral from other services. Look up what dual diagnosis stuff is available in your area.

However, this is all predicated on your dd being co-operative and wanting to get clean. They not take her into rehab or residential services for dual diagnosis and just accept her continuing to take drugs.

I think some people on this thread don't realise that once someone is a legal adult, it is their consent that is needed to access services, not their parents. It doesn't matter if mentally they are in arrested development, or teenager immaturity extends to 25- over 18, they personally have to consent. It doesn't matter what the OP wants, takes her dd to, agrees with her dd- if her dd doesn't consent to participate, it's a no-go and no amount of extra compassion will help.

They also won't let her use on the premises of these places, nor will they accept continued drug use while she's in a recovery programme, the odd lapse, perhaps but not continued use and lack of engagement which is what she sadly shows.

I hope this thread has been of some use to you and put you in touch with other MNetters in similar circumstances. It has been deeply frustrating to see people continually suggest things that either you have already done, or things that simply aren't possible, as you are not the one who needs to seek treatment or access services yourself. I can see you have tried to the utmost and give ongoing almost daily support, you cannot be accused of not supporting your dd, if anything your ongoing support and buying her things and paying her rent might be on the enabling side and likely if you went into AA/family programme, you would be encouraged to do less, not more. Good luck op.

Its possible to be on the Spectrum and have an additional diagnosis of Bi-Polar disorder. Schizophrenia also. Especially in families where there is a history of both disorders. Personally I once thought a friends then teenage daughter (she has Downs Syndrome) was showing signs of being very HF autistic and told my friend who said something is going on but we don't know what - a year later my friends DD was diagnosed with Schizophrenia.

As it happens there was both ASD and Schizophrenia in the family and I can see why many many moons ago children who were on the spectrum were given a diagnosis of Childhood Schizophrenia.

In my family there is Bi-polar disorder, and in my husbands there is ASD, Bi-Polar, and Schizophrenia. To be frank Im surprised we only have one child on the spectrum, but mother nature can be quite nice , so she ensured every family has someone with a diagnosis of something in it instead. Im sorry if that sounds sick but I really do have to laugh at times because she didn't even give us one child with ASD, another with Bi-Polar, and another with Schizophrenia - instead she gave us one with ASD and Tourette's, and very sadly for him, as he became older, symptoms of both Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia which are way more than you would normally expect in the cross over of symptoms.

I can see very easily why someone who is actually on the spectrum could be mis-diagnosed as having Bi-polar disorder though Im not suggesting for a moment that's what's going on with the young lady here.

I'm a havering cuddy at times, but I thought our experience as a family might be of interest to others.

I am sooooooo pleased that some of the lovely latest posters have been so supportive to OP.

I find with my problems, just finding one person, on MN, who knows exactly what it's like, is all I need. I so hope Op finds the same solace.

Thank you all, practical suggestions are very welcome and far more helpful than suggesting I get help for my childhood issues. Its my dd that is suffering and needs help. wanna and igotaway i will pm you later if thats ok. Thanks again you lovely bunch

We know we are enabling and this is preventing her from hitting rock bottom. 2 reasons she is very fragile, vulnerable and we dont want her on the streets. And because if she hits rock bottom she will kill herself, she does better with gentle encouragement to imagine what a happier future would look like. This proves a better incentive to her. She has agreed to the drs she will stay over the night before and then we are going to have a girly day out after. She told me yesterday she has a bf and he is very troubled, has an awful background story and they share drugs. She said they are horrible to each other and asked if i thought she should end the relationship. I said maybe you could just be mates for a while instead, whilst thinking WTF get the hell away from him! You have to things in small increments with dd. She is now thinking maybe he is not a good idea, phew!

It's the daughter who is suffering the most, by far, a boiling hell. While support for OP is important (of course, bcs she and dh are also in hell) it is not paramount - though certainly right up there.

I think k that when our child is suffering we are called on to lay down our lives, to do what it takes, whatever that is - it is perhaps the one relationship where that is appropriate. HOWEVER we need wisdom, good professional input, about what to lay down in order to eg not enable.

Brilliant latest posts, esp living. Relieved to hear that dual DX is being considered - it is perhaps 'easy' (not that anything is easy here) to be blinded by the addiction, as this is what presents first and blots out everything else.

Please pm me Op when you are ready.

Livingzuid is spot on with the borderline which DS1 lives with.

It is a hell, every day. Sometimes I think some class 'A' drugs should be prescribed. (That was a joke ladies - don't pile in on me!)

Op I utterly agree with your stance on counselling. I am very much of a similar disposition to you. I was cajoled into counselling by well meaning friends some time ago when in the midst of a massive personal crisis. I did 3 types of counselling utterly useless and one was actually harmful. I am delighted it helps many. For me never again. Trust your instincts x

Four Types of counselling if you include Al anon. Worse than useless for me. Great for the thousands it helps.
Op I think you are amazing. If I was you I would cut her off with the caveat you are always there if she is ready to accept help. Not there for kicking the door down etc.
and shame on you those posters who keep saying " why did you post here "

There are crap counsellors about - I've certainly met my fair share. Which doesn't negate that good practice exists, just that it's hard to come by and crap counselling can put people off who are already in crisis. Paying for it can turn up better results though.

Yes, paying for help can turn up better results - if a person has the means to pay.

Private mental health care can be very expensive and all the more-so considering you are playing the long game.