I totally dislike my daughter (long and ranty)

[ohthatsokthen]

DD now 21. Backstory she has been problematic since 13. Started with truancy, smoking etc. Then absconded from school and was found unconscious on the school field with an empty bottle of vodka. We then discovered she was bulimic and self harming. Many trips to the Drs later we were referred to PCAHMS for counselling. There are no known issues in our family, me and her dad still together, he has been a fantastic dad and we have both tried our best to support and encourage her. In her words "you are epic parents and I had a lovely childhood, I don't know why I do these things". Signed off from PCAHMS as deemed "helped". Over the next few years she went to college and got a part time job. She was then sent home from work as she was drunk, this continued and escalated until she was drinking all day and being abusive. I met with her work who offered to help - her words "all teenagers drink", took her to the drs "my mum is imagining it all, I am fine". To cut a long story short, the drinking escalated and she became threatening and violent and I snapped (probably not the best thing to do) and threw her out. We had a number of police visits due to threats and her trying to kick the door in. Police told me I was a victim of dv. She found a room, we paid the rent and deposit for 6 months. She got thrown out from that room because she kicked off and started smashing the place up. At this point I cut contact as she was making me ill with the stress. She moved in with her boyfriend, and his junkie father and moved onto drugs (speed, crack), got raped by her drug dealer. I can't even talk about that. She moved into a nice room, to get away and we paid the deposit. All this time still drinking but miraculously because of her manager she clung on to her job. She was then given notice on her room as the ll was getting married so she went off on a rare one and her threw her out that night. In desperation, the next day I found her a bedsit albeit in a halfway house type place, paid the deposit and the rent. She is still there. 5 months ago she quit drinking, we were so proud of her. I told her that she needed to get help as she obviously has issues (she says she wants to feel incredible all the time and can't bear the mundane day to day life). It transpires that although she isn't drinking the drug use has escalated, to the point she owes dealers. She came round last night and was vile, screaming and shouting at me. Told me all of this was her fault, she hated her life, we should take her back home and she would stop. I forced her to take the bedsit, if I hadn't she wouldn't be doing drugs. She hates her job, nobody has offered her a promotion and she's been there 3 years. I was very calm and told her, nobody had done this to her but herself and I wasn't going to discuss it anymore as she never listened (we asked her to attend Narcotics anonymous and the drs - she won't because they tell her things she doesn't want to hear). She was hateful, vicious and mean. I have got to the point where I totally dislike her and my husband says he despises her and can't be in her company. Sometimes I wish she was dead so that we didn't have to live like this and she wasn't suffering anymore. dh retires next year and we are going to sell up and move away (plan was to buy a house with annexe for dd if she got clean but that is never going to happen). All we wanted for her was to be happy, and either do uni/travel/or a job she liked. Whilst we are not perfect parents (who is) we have always encouraged and supported her and tried to do what we think is best. I am now at the point where I think - I've done everything I can, you are an adult and its up to you. I think this stems from growing up with both parents as alcoholics. I know she is a tortured soul but I can't help someone who refuses to take responsibility and help herself. Sorry for the essay, rant over - just wanted to get it off my chest!!! Thanks if you managed to read to the end

nauticant ain't that true!

I'm not afraid, personally. I thought long and hard about all the worst case scenarios before I had children, but I'm weird like that. I understand how dangerous hope can be in a situation like this, where experience has shown there is no rational reason to hope. But I do feel that a parent should always act 'as if' there was reason to hope because if we don't, who will? However, the OP is doing what she feels she needs to do and I understand that. I don't think my mum would have done the same for me if I'd been in that position, which makes me respect the OP's input all the more. OP, if services are offered to you and don't seem to have materialised, you need to chase them up.

I'm sorry you had such an awful experience with your dad but I don't think the situations are the same, actually. The picture with your DD is much more complex. It's not a simple matter of her deciding to stop taking drugs - the brain that she would use to make that decision isn't working properly. You can't blame someone for burning a rope (or kicking a door in for that matter) if they are suffering from severe mental illness. You see a world where your DD could have a life if she decided to stop taking drugs. She may see a life of howling agony with nothing to diminish the pain. The fact that she cries at the thought of having hurt you speaks volumes. How would she feel if she thought you were the devil and you genuinely couldn't be left alone in a room with her? There are mothers in that position. Yes, you are a victim but so is she. Stop equating this with your father. He's got nothing to do with it.

The message I'm getting again and again from this thread OP is that if you cared about your daughter more, you'd be able to make her become clean and adopt an ordered life. For whatever reasons some posters really need to believe that that's how it works.

Perhaps a good title for this thread could have been What happens when love is not enough?

OP

I DO realise it is more than you just getting your chequebook out as that wont help if she wont / cant co-operate?
I see that you have tried and tried and tried to help.

I just wondered if there was any way of buying in help that was of a 'better' / more 'joined up' quality of what she has been offered before.
She wont 'want it' initially as she wont want to see / admit she has a problem AND she knows previous help hasn't worked.
The drugs are more than just 'make me feel nice / get rid of the monotony' whether she can see that yet or not. They are a way of masking the fact she is not coping and that is what she needs to address (with your support if poss).

Will she even talk to you about it?
Could you go and 'look' at one of these places?
Is there any chink in her armour re this?

Nauticant.
No, it's not a lack of caring on the OP's part.
I am sure of that - it shines out.
A lack of expert support, very likely.
Unexplored family dynamics, well, maybe.
But lack of caring - NO, not that.

blubirdy - I think you have misunderstood me - or perhaps I was not very clear? I wasn't implying your advice was 'dangerous' at all (your word not mine), much less 'accusing' you of anything

firstchoice, what you said was that your advice was no more dangerous that mine, and sorry that is utter and total bullshit. My advice (take care of yourself OP) is universally not dangerous. Your advice (let an addict who refuses help, or even refuses to acknowledge the addiction, back into your home with no conditions placed on the stay) is potentially very dangerous indeed. Couldn’t you just have accepted that your advice was “out there”, without trying to put my sane advice on the same scale of danger as your own ill thought over advice?

I was merely saying that my advice was no more dangerous than anyone else's on this thread

that’s maybe what you meant to say, what you actually said was your advice was no more dangerous than mine. If you meant everyone in general, say that, don’t type just my username.

If the OP wants to obtain advice supported by 'decades of tried and tested techniques' then she would be looking for PROFESSIONAL advice. I was not pretending to offer that. I was offering what I assume the OP came here for - general support and general unprofessional advice/opinions/thought, for the OP to take or leave as she wishes

That’s just like saying if someone comes on asking for laymen’s advice about what type of sunscreen to use on her red haired, freckled 4 year old child, and my well intending yet utterly meaningless and potentially very dangerous advice is just to smear him in with olive oil, other people should just ignore my dangerous advice, right? After all if she had wanted professional advice on sun protection she would ask a GP or a dermatologist, so the rest of us witnessing dangerous advice should just ignore it?

I don’t think so.

Your logic is as faulty as your advice giving.

blubirdy -

I accept that my post may have been construed as my saying my advice was no more dangerous than YOURS rather than 'anyones' but I think I have clarified that now?? I am sorry if you were offended.

I am not sure where your example of a freckled child and olive oil is going? MNHQ makes it very clear that all advice offered between posters is unprofessional no substitute for professional advice which should be sought by the OP if in doubt.
Your opinion is different from mine. Neither your advice, my advice or anyone else's advice is 'dangerous'. It is merely opinion and advice.

I am not sure calling other posters 'stupid' or referring to their contributions as 'utter and total bullshit' is particularly relevant to the OP?
However, as that is merely an unprofessional opinion - like mine - I guess it is 'allowed'?

Bluebirdy and firstchoice how about taking it to PMs? The OP will have understood your separate points by now and it's kind of derailing things.

Neither your advice, my advice or anyone else's advice is 'dangerous'. It is merely opinion and advice.

Of course advice can be dangerous. That was what my example of sun protection and olive oil was about. Just because advice is well intended, just because a poster is trying to help, does not mean that they don’t actually sometimes inadvertently give dangerous advice. And when the rest of us see advice being given out that we think or know is potentially very dangerous, we have a duty to speak out and say “you may be trying to be helpful, but you may actually be giving out dangerous advice that could be detrimental to all involved”.

Yes I think your advice to the OP (to let an addict who refuses help, or even refuses to acknowledge the addiction, back into her home with no conditions placed on the stay) is potentially very dangerous indeed, which is why I spoke out.

The "utter bullshit" and "you’re just being silly now" only came about because instead of accepting you were at fault when it was pointed out to you, you fudged about and tried to place equal blame on me for giving out dodgy advice instead of just accepting responsibility. A bit like you’re fudging about now by trying to say no advice can be dangerous. That is frankly bullshit and silly.

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread (perhaps I should) but the OP touched a nerve and I just wanted to say I don't see myself ever saying that I disliked either of my DC. Furthermore I wouldn't want to be with anyone that said they "despised" my dd and "couldn't be in their company"

Whether that is any help to you or not I don't know, but I know where my loyalties lie and they are always with my DC, over my DH if that is what's needed.

I'm sure alcohol and drugs have massively impacted on your family thatsok and I hope you can find a way through with your dd - just don't give up on her, she's always your dd

I agree, Meerka.
It IS derailing things.
I hope blubirdy can leave off the insults so we can get back to the OP?

agree with meerka. bluburdy and firstchoice, are de-railing this a bit.

I agree, Meerka. It IS derailing things. I hope blubirdy can leave off the insults so we can get back to the OP?

I agree too Meerka, it is derailing. And rest assured firstchoice, as long as you lay off dishing out dangerous advice, I will lay off insulting you by pointing out the blatant danger in your well meaning advice.

Juggling seriously?! 300 odd posts many from the OP and that's the only thing you can say?

I think we'd all like to believe that we could never be in that position with our children, but sadly I think it's a reality for many parents of drug users.

I've been following this and I agree with nauticant - trying to find solutions for the op is somehow laying this at her door. That if she just did x or y, said just the right thing, then suddenly her dd would see and go to rehab. You can be there for her for when she wants to accept help but at some point loving someone just isn't enough to put yourself through more pain.

agree with meerka. bluburdy and firstchoice, are de-railing this a bit.

I'm ready when you all are to get back to the discussion at hand

I've been following this and I agree with nauticant - trying to find solutions for the op is somehow laying this at her door. That if she just did x or y, said just the right thing, then suddenly her dd would see and go to rehab.

yes, it's very much placing the responsibility in the wrong hands to put the onus on the OP. The OPs daughter isn't a child anymore, and short of getting her sectioned (not that the OP has much/any say in that anyway), there is nothing the OP can do without the consent and cooperation of her (adult) daughter. I have been reading a lot lately about life-interventions for addiction coupled with MH issues lately, these "harsh" interventions are becoming very popular in the states. And basically all the family and people close to the patient have to agree in a contract before hand that they will completely ignore/abandon the person in question if they don't accept the help offered. Very hard to read, and I can only imagine horrific to experience for all concerned, but they do force the person with the issues to a new low (a new rock bottom?) where they (hopefully) are more willing to accept help.

Poor you, it must be torture watching her destroy her life!! As others have said though, she has to want to change, once she hits the bottom and realises what she's doing to herself and her family then and only then will she accept help.
There is obviously something deep going on, maybe as others have said she is a young 21, and still doing daft teenage things. Big hugs to you and hope you come out the other end soon x

ohthatsokthen for you.

My own mum told me that she wished I was dead about 4 years ago. Culmination of watching helplessly as I destroyed myself with alcohol from the age of 17 - 21. I'm 2 years sober now, I stopped because I had had enough, I had hit my own rock bottom. My family could do nothing to help me. It must be terribly hard for you, I suppose I just wanted to say that there is hope.

OP, I'd suggest seeing if there are any 'dual diagnosis' services in your area, which if they exist would probably sit within mental health services, although it would be worth looking within drug and alcohol services too. Dual diagnosis services are mental health services designed for people who have both mental health issues and drug/alcohol problems, and are unlikely to require your DD to abstain before they would accept her for a service.
Your GP may know of the existence of any dual diagnosis services.
Best wishes.

my heart goes out to you. there is no helping someone who does not really want help. easy to say from someone not living through what you are going through.

Thank you Beeyump its hard as you know, congrats on your sobriety. As you rightly say you had to want the help.

Selks thank you a helpful suggestion, I will ask at the dr's appointment I have booked for her that she refuses to attend (me and dh are going anyway).

Juggling I suspect you have little ones and can't fathom this, me and my dh deserve to have some peace and hopefully a positive future. Dh is so hurt and heartbroken by this. I imagine your comment arises from not reading the thread to get some context.

Woh, pink got it in the neck there! Scapegoated, I thought.

I don't think those who are saying OP is resolutely ignoring facing her own stuff are saying it's OP's fault her daughter is as she is. OP is part of the problem IMO, not all of it. But it's OP's part that OP refuses to face (her history) and perhaps things could be clacking up because a crucial part of the puzzle is being ignored/denied.

I too think that private intervention could be a constructive way forward. I don't mean private detox (because dd is unwilling) but private family intervention. More specifically, OP to face her own demons to see how that could impact on the overall picture. Perhaps the move couldr release some ssizeable £ to that end?

Because you are willing to accept NHS MH opinion that you are well-balanced, OP, yet you are irritated when another within that service offers suggestions you don't want to hear. As I said in a pp, some NHS MH practitioners can be crap (or can seem crap..) and perhaps it would be an idea to secure someone yourself is privately who knows their eggs, in order to get some valuable input into this agonising situation for all concerned in it. Really, IMO one is flogging a dead horse when trying to squeeze the proverbial blood from the currently hopeless and dangerously ineffectual, cash-strapped NHS MH service stone.

Why didn't you think al-anon was for you , OP? Ie what was it about it that you felt didn't fit?

There's a Guardian column at the moment called Marriage in Recovery in which the anonymous author finds al-anon a massive help in her situation, and describes it really well. Being in AA myself, I don't really have much experience of the 'other place', but maybe you should try it again? The very words 'it's not for me' came out of my mouth in relation to AA, and I was wrong. Not saying you are, but you know.