I totally dislike my daughter (long and ranty)

[ohthatsokthen]

DD now 21. Backstory she has been problematic since 13. Started with truancy, smoking etc. Then absconded from school and was found unconscious on the school field with an empty bottle of vodka. We then discovered she was bulimic and self harming. Many trips to the Drs later we were referred to PCAHMS for counselling. There are no known issues in our family, me and her dad still together, he has been a fantastic dad and we have both tried our best to support and encourage her. In her words "you are epic parents and I had a lovely childhood, I don't know why I do these things". Signed off from PCAHMS as deemed "helped". Over the next few years she went to college and got a part time job. She was then sent home from work as she was drunk, this continued and escalated until she was drinking all day and being abusive. I met with her work who offered to help - her words "all teenagers drink", took her to the drs "my mum is imagining it all, I am fine". To cut a long story short, the drinking escalated and she became threatening and violent and I snapped (probably not the best thing to do) and threw her out. We had a number of police visits due to threats and her trying to kick the door in. Police told me I was a victim of dv. She found a room, we paid the rent and deposit for 6 months. She got thrown out from that room because she kicked off and started smashing the place up. At this point I cut contact as she was making me ill with the stress. She moved in with her boyfriend, and his junkie father and moved onto drugs (speed, crack), got raped by her drug dealer. I can't even talk about that. She moved into a nice room, to get away and we paid the deposit. All this time still drinking but miraculously because of her manager she clung on to her job. She was then given notice on her room as the ll was getting married so she went off on a rare one and her threw her out that night. In desperation, the next day I found her a bedsit albeit in a halfway house type place, paid the deposit and the rent. She is still there. 5 months ago she quit drinking, we were so proud of her. I told her that she needed to get help as she obviously has issues (she says she wants to feel incredible all the time and can't bear the mundane day to day life). It transpires that although she isn't drinking the drug use has escalated, to the point she owes dealers. She came round last night and was vile, screaming and shouting at me. Told me all of this was her fault, she hated her life, we should take her back home and she would stop. I forced her to take the bedsit, if I hadn't she wouldn't be doing drugs. She hates her job, nobody has offered her a promotion and she's been there 3 years. I was very calm and told her, nobody had done this to her but herself and I wasn't going to discuss it anymore as she never listened (we asked her to attend Narcotics anonymous and the drs - she won't because they tell her things she doesn't want to hear). She was hateful, vicious and mean. I have got to the point where I totally dislike her and my husband says he despises her and can't be in her company. Sometimes I wish she was dead so that we didn't have to live like this and she wasn't suffering anymore. dh retires next year and we are going to sell up and move away (plan was to buy a house with annexe for dd if she got clean but that is never going to happen). All we wanted for her was to be happy, and either do uni/travel/or a job she liked. Whilst we are not perfect parents (who is) we have always encouraged and supported her and tried to do what we think is best. I am now at the point where I think - I've done everything I can, you are an adult and its up to you. I think this stems from growing up with both parents as alcoholics. I know she is a tortured soul but I can't help someone who refuses to take responsibility and help herself. Sorry for the essay, rant over - just wanted to get it off my chest!!! Thanks if you managed to read to the end

I did some pages back iwanted to rant anonymously. I have done that and also gained a contact in a similar position. I have also clearly outraged some who have formed very strong, and to the vulnerable, dangerous and damaging opinions based on their cosy little lives.others in similar positions offered empathy, insight and encouagement to seek help.

you know NOTHING about the lives of other posters- me included. I have already alluded to difficulties that I don't want to detail so don't be sp presumptuous or arrogant by assuming stuff.

You posted to have validation.

You didn't get it from everyone and what is worse you refuse to listen. THIS is partly why you have the problems you have.

Oh pink you sound a very unhappy person. Perhaps you were dd once.

I'm the mum of severely disabled son, a young man of 23, luckily we have the personal means to still have him at home with us and provide the care he needs. Care which still involves us being on duty round the clock even though we have staff a good 16 hours a day, and on top of that there is always an on call in the staff accommodation in the garden.

Its exhausting but do-able because we can make it do-able, and to use a disabled child in this argument like someone has done is like saying people who put their children onto residential care are failing their child.

They're not, just as the Op isn't failing her child. She is exhausted, she can do no more, we have not lived her life - which sounds grimmer that grim. As hard as it is having a disabled child, not for a minute would I want to be having to deal with an alcoholic and drug addict. The mental health issues I could do, its what my life has been about with my beloved late mum and my darling boy, but alcohol and drugs - no way.

I'm not of the belief the OP will actually be able to walk away but if she does I would never condemn her. I think she is getting a lot off her chest here and it may just give her the strength to go back in for another round of trying to sort things for her girl.

Sometimes a rant can be all it takes to give you strength.

pinkfrocks, please stop. please stop posting. just for a bit.
I an finding your posting to the op, almost unbearable to read. its almost bullying. please take a breather.

I dont think she can. I think she needs the release her posts are giving her.

oblomov thanks strongly suspect pink was my dd once which is why she has reated so strongly. She is carrying a seething ball of anger and resentment.

Granny i salute you x

agree granny. but it is not appropriate.
if pink frocks
needs release, then she can, on her own thread.

bullying , or the tone of the recent posts, I can not accept.

I have reported to mn.

I have a teenage daughter who has really made things very difficult for me and I understand the negative feelings you have about your daughter. She has made me ill with anxiety and worry. I wasn't coping over it and went to counselling at one stage. I was lucky to find a decent counsellor. I thought I was doing my best and that her issues were all her doing. Before having counselling I would have described my upbringing as relatively normal. My parents fought an awful lot and should have separated. Their destructive relationship took a big toll on myself and my siblings. As we were middle class, no one went hungry, no one was beaten or starved I never recognised the damage I had experienced. They weren't the worst and we would have been seen as a very decent family with very caring parents.

By the time I was a teenager I was anxious and embarrassed about my homelife. I couldn't have friends around because the house was a mess and World War III could break out at any time. I started drinking which made me feel better about myself. I am in my late forties and still struggle with anxiety and drinking. When I went to counselling I honestly thought I was doing my best and my daughter was a selfish bitch. The counsellor I had was wonderful and managed to explain to me how my past had influenced my relationship with my daughter. She asked me to tell her exactly how the rows would start and gently showed me how I was escalating a lot of the rows myself by being so defensive and scared. Having counselling improved our relationship immeasurably.

My daughter is still a bitch (joking) and last few years have been hell at times (not joking). She got drunk, assaulted police officers, ended up in the cells overnight, didn't go to school, didn't come home at night, attacked me and spent time in care. With the support I got from the counselling I felt I had nutured myself and my attitude towards her changed. I don't cling on to the negative with her anymore and unbelieveably we can move on from the disasters without holding on to the bitterness. I feel more loving towards her.

I know you are having an awful time and I don't want to try to psychoanalyse you. I am just telling you that I felt like you and thought I was doing my best at being a mother and I really wasn't. Parenting skills don't come as naturally as well all think and our past can wreck havoc on how we deal with our DC. I feel for you and your DD and can only too well see how things deteriorated when she was 13. She is still that 13 year old girl. Be gentle with yourself because you should have been looked after better when you were a child. I wish with all my heart that things improve for you and your daughter.

I had reported them too. You can disagree with OPs but those posts just seem nasty for the sake of it.

pinkfrocks, you talk the talk of compassion, but you sure as fuck don't walk it where the OP is concerned.

ohthatsokthen, if you don't look after yourself, no one else will, and you won't be fit to look after your daughter if or when she decides to take any help offered. Do what you need to do. I am sorry and ashamed at the sanctimonious crap you have had to put with here.

grannyontheschoolrun, I could swear I know you from other cyber shores. DR1958 from EW by any chance ? Either way, your post is spot on. Well said.

Thank you all. Please spare a thought for pink though she was very affected by the post and I didnt pick up on that immediately or adjust my response accordingly.

op, I have similar feelings.
I have been for counselling. I come from a totally loving family. I thought I was doing my best. I have many faults, but I was loving, open and kept trying. I got ground down, and almost broken. I begged for help for 5 years.
my counsellor, my mum and my gp, said that i was open and honest, and that all 3 of them believed, I was a good mum, struggling to cope in difficult circumstances.

the pain. of your child abusing you, is very hard, very complex.

my lovely dh. his pain too.

I totally get you OP. and like Bruins, I wish you peace. I fear both if us will struggle to achieve that.

I would really encourage you to go to AA for families. You cannot change other people only how you yourself cope and respond to the situation.

We have alcoholics (addiction) in our family.....and it "skipped" a generation as the child (GF) of the alcoholic (GGF) was so traumatized that he was teetotal - however his son (my husbands Father) was a terrible alcoholic.

AA teaches you to practice "detached love" for the addict and this really helps you to preserve yourself and cope and share with people in the same situation. "detached love" means always being there emotionally (always being available to listen) but not being their to rescue them practically/physically each time. If they fall asleep in the gutter in their own vomit and feces - they need to literally wake up to this themselves - they should not be cleaned up put to bed when drunk and then wake up in fresh comfy sheets as they don't remember the vomit/feces part and will not ever know the extend of the impact. Hopefully one day they will hit rock bottom and decide to get help.

With any MH issues the subs abuse needs to be cleared out first - although this can in reality be a chicken and egg,

Ohthatsokthen I think you are being extremely kind and patient to everybody. This reflects well on you: I haven't read any coldness in your posts at all. You sound gentle and kind to me, but you sound naturally like a very calm person.

I can remember once being in a car with some friends and another car backfired. Everyone SCREAMED except me, and then when we realised what had happened we were all laughing and someone said "How did Pickle remain so calm? She didn't scream or anything!" It was true - on the face of it there was absolutely no change of emotion: my face didn't flicker.

Inside, I had absolutely poo'd myself! But for some reason, it didn't transpire onto my face or my voice.

That's me, and no one is going to tell me to change it. It's just part of who I am, like my eye colour or my foot size. I think that is why I've responded to ohthatsokthen - it isn't coldness, or detachment. I just think ohthatsokthen is very sensible. She has plenty of compassion as she's tried to help lots, but she does have the sense and the yes, detachment (which is not a bad thing) to stand back and say - "okay, enough's enough here." I suspect that's probably what enabled her to break contact with her parents.

People with excellent self awareness and sense like that often don't need counselling. They really don't. They know themselves what a counsellor would say; it will not be anything new or different they will glean from talking to a counsellor. That's not to say it might not still be helpful or supportive if someone wants to but ohthatsokthen doesn't want to.

She may not have time, finances may be tight, she may not want to because she doesn't want to - she doesn't have to justify herself to anybody on here! As to why she posted, we all post for a sound off, a chat, support - Mumsnet is free, it is available 24/7 and can be done from a phone, tablet or laptop: in other words when you're out and about. All those reasons are excellent reasons in my book.

I totally agree with Branston.

plus, no one deserves to be abused. op's dd needs help.
well so does op. detachment is protection from further hurt.

mn is always so child focused. but we need to help the op here too. she can't help others if she isn't strong enough, due to being constantly abused herself.

hope you have taken some comfort from this thread op.

Actually branston spookily accurate. I have been told by medical professionals i am very self aware andmentally healthy despite my upbringing. I am also a very calm person which helps as dd and dh are not! Never claimed to a good parent but have always told dd how much we love her and will support her growing up we said tyyour best, she was not academic, the grades dont matter as long as you tried. We also instilled in her that school was more important for making friends and learning to get on with people than results. As an adult we said do, be, whatever makes you happy. She wants to be a tattooist so i have encouraged her to go for it, but said the drugs will have to stop as you cant do it with shaky hands. X

It just happens, itsokthen. It really does.

People don't like acknowledging it because I suppose it makes it real it could happen to them too. They could have a son or daughter who goes off the rails but no matter how supportive you are, getting them back on it is quite literally trying to steer an express train away from the wrong tracks it is taking. Addiction is THAT powerful.

I don't think you've done anything wrong. You're not walking away from your DD but her behaviour. You are there if, when, she returns to you. I pray she does

OP this is my final post to you.
I am not an unhappy person. I do not have a ball of seething anger.

If you find my posts harsh it's because I've been blunt. I haven't said anything that several other posters have said, but they have been more circumspect in their language.

The reason I have been blunt is because you refuse to engage with any questions or observations that ask you to examine your own childhood or your own behaviour- the bluntness was an attempt to get through to you. But clearly you do not like this and your response is to attack me and suggest I am the one who has problems.

I suspect this is your default response and one which is used perhaps with your daughter - you won't look within yourself.

I feel very sorry for you.
I feel very sorry for your DD.
I don't know where your DH is in all of this but as an only child I hope your DD has had support from him as well as you- daughters need their fathers as much as their mothers- maybe more so if they are to go on and create happy relationships.

I am coming to this thread partly as a professional - not with drugs- but with training and experience in working with families.

I hope it works out for ALL of you.

Pinfrocks. It doesn't bode well to be so arrogant in your perception of yourself as a parent. Parenting and life doesn't work out like that. And FFS , it isn't abusive to think that a twenty one year old is an adult. You really think that parents should Parent their children to the age of twenty five?
If that is the case why do you not further your point of view by saying that nobody should even think of having children until age 25? Are you afraid to judge a great number of the population, but not OP?
Malevolent Hippies.....they are so passive aggressive.
Sorry to go off on a tangent, OP. I feel for you. I know that you are not cold, you are just "done". Don't banish your daughter from your heart. Hopefully, if she wants help from you, she will present herself in such a way that it will show. I don't think that the naysayers realise that you have reached the stage where you KNOW that your child is being disingenuous. Most sane people reach the stage that you have reached when experiencing this kind of thing. If only for the protection of the rest of the family.
Keep a channel of communication open, with firm boundaries for yourself.
You did the counselling thing and it didn't work out. That's okay. It doesn't mean that counselling is wrong and it doesn't mean (like a lot on here seem to think) that it is a "cure all". Many find counselling to be manipulative. Plus too many do not realise that for some, counselling is like throwing good money after bad. You seem sensible enough to not dismiss it out of hand - it just didn't work for you... and why should it?
I can't give you any advice for your situation. I'd be at the end of my tether in your position . As it stands, it seems that any "support' for your daughter is "enabling" her position and not helping her. You've made the logical (not "sentimental") step of realising this and you are now doing the next best. Saving your sanity.
I know many in your position. And I know, just because their adult, dysfunctional children are very much still in their midst, this isn't an indication of the "health" of the Parent/ adult child relationship. It's just that that adult, dysfunctional child can't get any "welcome" anywhere else and adult, dysfunctional child refuses to take on the full responsibility of adulthood, including being pragmatic.
Good Luck, and I hope that it works out for you. I also hope that your daughter takes advantage of all the help that is out there. There's far more of it now, than twenty one years ago.

I don't think you have been attacked, pinkfrocks

I do think it would be a good idea to leave this thread though. I am concerned by your statement that you have come to the thread as a professional.

Excellent post stooshe

Come as a professional?
Oh my goodness. That sends shudders down my spine.
Pink frocks, step away. For your own good.

Childhood ends at 25- psychologists from Tavistock Clinic