DH has done something lovely but I am furious with him about it. Can you help me articulate why???

[TeaFor6]

Brief background is we have been married 9 years, mostly very happy. 4DC DC aged 8, 5 and 6month old twins.

Previously we have always had at least 1 holiday abroad a year. With the (unplanned) arrival of 2 babies things are obviously a bit tighter money wise. So we agreed we would not go abroad this year but would do days out and maybe a long wknd somewhere for ‘holidays’. I can’t lie- I was a tiny bit disappointed about not going abroad. I know it’s a bit of a first world problem but I do look forward to getting away. But I didn’t make any kind of fuss about it and I am excited for what we do have planned.

Anyway, this morning DH sits me and DDs down and announces he has booked a ‘surprise’ holiday abroad. Due to fly in 3 weeks! He booked it over a month ago. I could just about get over him booking it without telling me but I am livid that he chose to tell me at the same time as the DC’s. I am NOT a bloody child. We are supposed to be equals, partners who make decisions about these things together. Surely I’m not wrong on this???

I KNOW he was trying to do a nice thing for me but I just feel so undermined and patronised! And he just doesn’t think things through. He’s booked us a villa. So has he thought about if its in a practical location i.e. easy to push a double buggy around? Close to restaurants/supermarkets? (self-catering of course, so will he be doing all the cooking/washing up? I doubt it) Are there things for the girls to do? Is the house practical with 2 young babies? No. He hasn’t thought about any of that. Nor the inconvenient flight times (fly out at 1am). Plus I will now have to cancel appointments for that week, and a party invite for DD1 that she had already accepted.

On the less practical side I’m upset because I would have liked to have some say in choosing the holiday myself. I love looking through brochures, choosing where to go and counting down the weeks until we leave and I feel a bit like he’s taken that away from me (very childish I know, but it’s how I feel)
I know some people will say I’m being ungrateful and maybe I am, but I suppose I’m pissed off because its just another example of him making a bloody great decision without discussing it with me and just expecting me to put up with it. (It's not that long since we had a big discussion about him doing this and I thought we'd got somewhere but obviously not. It's like he thinks my opinion doesn’t matter ) And it feels like he’s done all the fun bits on his own and just left me to think about the practical stuff as usual Plus it might have been nice to have the fun of telling the DCs together. Now he's SuperDad and I get no credit (again very, very childish I know)

I’m trying to explain some of this to him but I’m one of those people who, when I get angry and frustrated, I end up in tears It’s pretty hard to sound sane and reasonable when your voice cracks into a sob every time you try and say something!

Am I right for feeling like this? He just can’t understand why I’m upset and I feel guilty for being so angry when he really was trying to do a nice thing I'm just sick of always feeling like the miserable one who puts a dampener on everything. I don't want to always have to think about the practical side but somebody has to! How do I get through to him??

(Sorry for previous unreadable post. I now have a functioning keyboard again).

The thing is, manipulative behaviour is still creepy, infuriating and wrong, even when it involves 'nice things.' Beautiful flowers and expensive chocolates left on your doorstep are not a pleasure when they are left by a creepy man you have already asked to leave you alone, and you don't have to be 'grateful' for things that you didn't want, didn't ask for and which actually benefit the giver far more than they benefit you.

The OP's H is seriously invested in backing her into a corner where she does all the domestic work with a big submissive smile on her face. Because what's important to him is looking like Father Of The Year without actually doing any of the daily grind, and she is only of use to him as a way of backing up his image of himself.

For me, one of the biggest issues would be the spending of joint money. OP and her DH made a joint decision about saving their joint money. Yes, some of the money was from PIL, but a lot won't be, especially when you think about spending money. Her DH took it upon himself to decide when/how to spend their money without any kind of discussion.

That would make me really angry even without all the suitability of the villa/flight issues.

Oh dear - as unreasonable as you sound - I'd be the same!! BUT I have always told Dh emphatically that I HATE surprises and I would not ever thank him for planning one.
I have been married 20 years and have learned that if you want something: ask for it.
If you do not want something make sure he knows. Men, or my dh, father, brother, male friends anyway, are not good at mind reading or anticipating anything other than the hallmark version of how I should be.
In this situation I would rant and rave/let off steam to a friend. Make sure DH knows how much you hate surprises and would have liked to plan this holiday and then be gracious and enjoy your holiday.

Milly O naire - well yeah, but the point is how is the OP meant to enjoy her holiday when it is basically her doing exactly the same child care and domestic work (cooking! cleaning!) but just in a slightly better climate?

That's not a holiday.

When you have young kids it's stuff like getting the logistics right that make or break a holiday.

All this reads as is a huge extra ball of stress for the OP.

To the men on the piston heads site, who apparently still think it's okay to use words like "dyke" in the year 2014 (cough cough UKIP voters) - the OP has specifically said that the husband doesn't help with housework or the kids.

I hope that clears things up for you...

The thing is, manipulative behaviour is still creepy, infuriating and wrong, even when it involves 'nice things.' Beautiful flowers and expensive chocolates left on your doorstep are not a pleasure when they are left by a creepy man you have already asked to leave you alone, and you don't have to be 'grateful' for things that you didn't want, didn't ask for and which actually benefit the giver far more than they benefit you.

This. Exactly. Just this.

Especially compounded because it isn't a lovely gift... to me it's rather like those Xmas adverts from the 50s "Buy her a hoover" etc'... why? So she can do your work in a different/new way/place?

It would be entirely different if the DP did his 'bit'. But it's clear what the score is here. He gets to go on hols with his nanny cook cleaner wife and kids.

Making grand gestures like this is one of the key flags for abuse. If a man doesn't meet enough red flags to be an abuser, one or two make him 'just' a colossal arsehole. It's a red flag because it displays a lack of understanding or belief that others are your equal, or are full, complex human beings with a life and set of wants and needs, etc., outside of his own, and outside of where their lives and selves intersect.

I don't think the word "abuse" should be thrown around in a situation like this - there is - or at least should be - a very strong line between someone being abusive, and someone just being a complete dick through a repeated and willing display of disregard for their partner's opinions/views/chores/practicalities of looking after four young children.

Milly, the OP has been very, very clear that she does not want him to make decisions like this without consulting her. He has form for ignoring her wishes on this.

OxfordBags: Abuse? Really? That somewhat trivialises people who are really abused. You should use that term with caution and compassion.

Wary as someone who has been in an abusive relationship, the 'grand gesture unveiled in front of others so he looked good and I couldn't object' was a recurrent theme.

I don't think this case is abusive. But yes, it can be a warning sign - and it isn't nice at all. I would liken it to someone swearing at another person out of jealousy - doesn't mean they're abusive if they do it once, but it's still something that perhaps needs reminding it's not 'romantic' and in the wrong hands can go waaay to far.

And emotional abuse can be horrific - in my case I was left properly messed up in the head for many years (as in having a MH need messed up).

I didn't say he is an abuser. I clearly pointed out that it was a single red flag and that one or two red flags do NOT equal abuse, but signal someone who is a bit of a twat. Please actually read things properly before you object to them.

Im assuming the men on pistonheads do realise that homophobia does include derogatory lesbian references.

Laws against homophobia do include hate speech referring to gay women and not just gay men lads!

Of course there is no clear dividing line between arsehole and dangerous abuser. Somewhere along the line there are colossal arseholes and run of the mill abusers. Where does one stop and the other starts? It's hard to say and it may depend on the point of view of the person judging it.

There are also different types of abuse: physical, financial, emotional.

We should not discount red flags because a person is not yet fully abusive. This man may well be on the path to becoming abusive, and I'm not sure there's anything Tea can actually do about it. He has to want to be a loving partner. If he doesn't all that Tea can do is to walk away when it becomes too much for her. He doesn't have to be abusive as such for Tea to decide to leave. Sometimes it's healthier to leave before the abuse starts and the abused is truly immersed in it, with low self esteem or with hardly any options.

To people still going on about how thrilled and grateful the OP should be - it's not about the holiday itself. It's about the way her DH is treating her. The holiday itself is a side issue.

And why should anyone be grateful just for receiving a gift that they didn't want? That was paid for with money taken from his parents and their own savings, neither of which she agreed to? Which he didn't even bother saving for himself, just ran to his parents? With no thought as to whether it would be a suitable holiday for the family? Where op can carry on just as she does at home, ie doing all the work? And telling her a month after booking it? I wonder if he has visions of sitting by the pool all day lounging in the sun with a drink in his hand whilst all his children frolic happily in the pool whilst all the little faries fly around doing all the work in the background of course to make this vision of tranquillity happen.

Yes, she should bow down and kiss his feet for being so wonderful and dad/husband of the year. This must have made her feel so special, loved and cherished

OP I hope you have a great time in spite of all of this and that you can relax. It could be a golden opportunity to see how much your dh will pitch in and help.

Oxfordbags: I read what you wrote. I'm calling you out for using an unnecessarily emotive word where the situation doesn't warrant it.

Herroyalnotness do you condone domestic violence ?

warysara, I'm calling YOU out for not being capable of reading and understanding what I wrote correctly, and for trying to derail the thread with this bullshit. Again, I pointed out that making grand gestures is one of the red flags for abuse. I did not say this man is an abuser. Still, your OTT reaction to what you've misread is deliciously ironic when you're accusing me of unwarranted emotiveness.

Lweji has it spot on - just because there are not enough red flags to call it out and out abuse, doesn't mean it's not shitty behaviour that needs taking v seriously.

Now, can you stop derailing the thread for whatever need this nonsense is fulfilling in you, and let people concentrate on the OP?

Wow Oxfordbags. Calm. Peace. I think you need to sort out your negative abusive language and attitude towards other people.

I answered a few times about the original poster, in that I think she is overreacting and should try to make best of a bad situation and not as suggested act like a petulant child. Absolutely not be 'grateful', but see if he can step up and they both enjoy the holiday.

Why are those guys over at Pistonheads so obsessed with this site?

I've never felt the need to keep going over there to check up on what they're talking about.

Also: big, empty grand gestures can be a red flag for abuse if they occur in conjunction with other red flags.

On its own, it doesn't signify abuse but it does signify colossal twattery, which is depressing enough for the OP

but see if he can step up

I think therein lies the nub of the whole issue. OP knows he won't step up.

And past history is empiric proof of that.

AngelenaLaide: I guess the pistonheads chaps mostly have a wife or girlfriend and are interested in the way they "really" think. Here is a relatively open forum to get a different perspective on things. They do concentrate on the negative side and I agree that quite a few threads on here degenerate into seemingly man hating bitter rants.

I would stalk pistonheads if I really wanted to understand cars or those that drive them I guess. Fortunately my car doesn't have emotional issues that it needs to discuss with other cars or get other cars to go on about how badly I treat it and get rid of me straight away.

Yes, it is clearly irresponsible hyperbole to point out that a behaviour is a single red flag for abuse, but not irresponsible hyperbole to call someone disagreeing with you 'abusive', warysara

Ah, you're one of the Poor Menz brigade. All is clear.

Me? No. Just trying to explain what I think.

Rather than your unhelpful judgmental attitude.