I just cannot find my 'people' anywhere.

[mymoonandstars]

I suppose I should just write it as it comes out.

I have lots of friends. I have quite a good social life that if I wanted to take a more active role in, I could. But I just always feel on the fringes of friendships, the friend you always forget was there the time that funny thing happened. People talk over me. Someone will say something I just said and it will raise a laugh where as mine just fell flat. I have just returned from a night out where I felt like the most isolated person in the entire world. The things I like and enjoy are considered eccentric by the mainstream (alternative music, I don't watch television, I read ALOT) and I suppose I am essentially an introvert who would still like to 'get out there' but at times I just need to rest my soul.

I dont think I will ever find friends I can totally be myself with without at least some degree of checking myself. Anyone out there with any advice or who have similar feelings? I would be really happy to talk.

I think, reading this, that there's a gender aspect, as well. Women are supposed to get on with everyone and shut up about their own viewpoints - we're supposed to be responsible for making everyone else feel comfortable in a way that men are not. Several posters have mentioned having non-mainstream DHs or DPs who are a lot less bothered about 'fitting in' but often a non-mainstream man is treated as 'special' or 'superior' whereas a woman with her own interests is under more pressure to be quiet. Especially and most of all if a woman refuses to defer to men...

Though I have felt the pressure to fit in I was never very successful at it and have the sort of bloody minded personality that quite likes being a bit odd. At school this meant I had a bunch of similarly 'odd' friends - only in the sense that they didn't fit the mainstream very well - I really don't think it is a coincidence that 75% of my friendship group came out in college.

Generally I think men and women both feel the pressure to conform and to not 'like' people who don't. It is a social pressure thing. If you are lucky enough to find your tribe then you are ok but dealing with suburban isolation due to our 'city' attitudes for example, it can take years to find a place. Took me about 8 years to really feel I have a stable social network and friends I trust in my town. The internet enables us to connect with people with similar interests but it can also make you feel more lonely as you know there are people out in the world that you can relate to but they are not in your area.

I hated where I lived for years and that was unhelpful as it blinded me to the fact that the place actually had stuff to offer and people who also felt bored and lonely... just had to be open to kissing alot of frogs I don't do the running club or spend all my time at the coffee shop. But I did join a baking club and became a school Governor, I needed a bit of confidence and new topics to talk about. Still haven't found anyone here who loves GoT or the novels of Angela Carter and Kurt Vonnegut or the music of Thrilled Skinny as much as me though - thank god for MN.

I am also reminded of the time I moved house when I was a month or so away from my 15th birthday - not a good time to be shipped hundreds of miles away from your friends! Unlike OPenup41 felt - as a new girl at the end of the school year - that I was totally visible but not in a particularly good way. I recall walking to school with my neighbours daughter on my first day and she received all my questions and attempts at conversation with a sullen disinterest and avoided me like the plague after that ... I was teased and called names and generally made rather miserable. But in time I found some good friends (the muso's and the weirdo's) and 6th form college was great.

I get this too, but I know it's my choice. Like a pp said, if I have to go shopping for food or clothes, I prefer to go alone. I wouldn't think to make a social occasion of it. Likewise if I feel like having a coffee, or a cup of tea and biscuits.

If my dh is away I don't need keeping company.

I have friends that I could ask, and the reason I don't isn't because our chat is different, I can find common ground with just about anybody.

My interests are solitary too. My fitness is also solitary. I keep thinking about joining a rowing club or a netball team, but for some reason I don't. My socialising is all pub based and it suits me. Like I compartmentalize socialising.

It's interesting that social media is mentioned here too. I felt a bit of an outsider there as well, probably more so than in real life. One thing that made me feel really crap a few years ago was that I only got two birthday messages whereas a uni friend whose birthday is next to mine got hundreds. Even friends in common would write happy birthday to her and not me. I know it sounds really silly but it made me feel very left out at the time.

I always wondered what it was that made some people receive so many messages for their birthday and others only a couple.

These days I prefer to keep my interactions in the real world, just a small bunch of friends and colleagues, my DH and children, and my adorable cat who gives these lovely hugs when I'm reading my book.

tiawalters I'm really ambivalent about social media, especially Facebook. My natural instinct is not to want to document the minutiae of my life online, and to post only rarely, when something is of particular importance (weddings etc). On the other hand, many people I know are on it all the time, and I've noticed that the more I do post stuff, the more likes and comments I get for it - as much as I may dislike it, being more ready to interact with people online seems to keep you in the social loop. Seems to be some correlation between popularity and visibility I think.

Joined Twitter only recently and quite like it so far; other than the people who are relentlessly self-promoting, who I tend not to follow, I find there is much less one-upmanship and stealth boasting.

Agree completely TaraKnowles - DP is away this week and I'm completely content pottering about at home and catching up on Game of Thrones. My ultra-extrovert friend (she's my oldest friend, but we're complete polar opposites) would panic within about 5 mins and make frantic arrangements to go out. She hates her own company and gets very twitchy very quickly in the rare moments she's alone!

tiawalters I saw this with my sister in the old low-tech way of birthday card tallies.

However she spends a lot of effort giving social "strokes" to others, she sends a lot of cards herself, and I now realise is far less idealistic and fussy about who she gives time too than I have ever been! For example I have been shocked to hear her be cutting about lovely friends of hers. So it's to my mind a different model of relationships. She also doesn't get fed up and hurt by people as I have done in the past and is far more easy going (perhaps she is Ragwort, above?!)

She's gonna have a heaving funeral and good on her!

I have a handful of low key friends. I'd get a cat but I dislike them more than humans . I did find Leil Lowndes book "How to Talk To Anyone" (very North American in style) really useful years ago when I was moving a lot. It gave me more chance of making connections with new people. When that worked I then realised hell can be (groups of) other people and it's my nature to find groups annoying.

I also find it hard to be myself around people. I am an introvert, in that I recharge my batteries by spending time on my own, but as I get older I feel like I am getting more and more extroverted. I think also, that I am beginning to give out more of the social 'strokes' that funny mentions above.

I'm always on the look out for new female friendships (men are lovely, but I've never found the depth of friendship that I have with women) worry people will think I'm weird (or snobby and elitist) for being a feminist, loving new music and gigs, geeky things like computer games, board games and RPGs, scepticism, reading and current affairs (my favourite Christmas present would be a 12 month subscription to Private Eye) and wanting to learn new things (I'm going along to a local philosophy society next week on my own because I don't know anyone who would want to go) or go see indie films and documentaries.

And yet when I set it out like that I realise just how mainstream my interests are and that all I need to do is mention it and maybe I would find people who like those too. But I never do, and if someone mentions it first I worry that they will find me needy if I get all 'Me too!'

Tia - "I always wondered what it was that made some people receive so many messages for their birthday and others only a couple." - Just to check, you HAVE made your birthday visible, haven't you? The rest, I'm sure, is down to how much 'stroking' you do as funny says, even more so on FB than in real life because people only see your stuff if you've been interacting with them. Well, actually, that is like real life isn't it!

I'm pretty much the same. My son has a PDD-NOS diagnosis - sometimes I wonder if I am on the spectrum too actually based on how I don't seem to click with people. I do have a hobby where I meet people on a regular basis but we rarely meet outside that. It gets a bit lonely at times but I really try to make sure there is nothing in my behaviour or manner that would justify a negative reaction, then just get on with things. I made friends very easily as a child though.

I desperately wanted a party for my 40th but had to concede that it would be a disaster. I could only think of 4 people to invite. We had a family meal out instead. Many people I know also turned 40 in the last year or two and I managed an invite to one party.

I love parties...strangely. I like to flit about making smallconnections without having to be the real me. It is eexhausting tho.

So much on this thread, such an enjoyable read. So, hopefully Im not too late to the discussion!

A couple of observations. Both my DP and I found we had an interesting thing in common.

We both found it a very isolating experience, as far as friendships went. Before we met each other, I had been widowed very unexpectedly and he had an awful acrimonious split from his Ex and was a single DF. To start with, friends rallied round in both our circumstances, I had lots of calls and visitors in the first few months after my late DH died. DP had invitations from different friends to spend Christmas with them, for his first one alone.

Within a year we both found all this contact evaporated, suddenly we were single people in a world of married couples. DP couldn't connect with anyone through school (who wants to befriend a single Dad?). I was seen as a threat, even the new next door neighbours stopped talking to me, the DW was horrible to me if I talked to her OH over the fence. We are both "copers" so maybe people saw us getting on with life, and didn't realise we were both lonely, probably I felt it more than him, men can walk into a pub for a pint, but I wouldn't dream of doing that!

Our society is weird, sociologists might say that family life has eroded and marriage is out of fashion and yet social gatherings seem very much geared towards couples, "the family unit" people feel suspicious if a single person is 'floating around' at a function.

We have struggled to think who would come along to our wedding, which we have talked about for ages but haven't got round to, because we are coming to the conclusion we will only just scrape together enough for 2 witnesses (and one of those would be DPs DS!) Not sure the minimum age to be a witness, shows how useless I am at wedding organisation! Im no bridezilla, that's for sure.

I agree with pp who say they enjoy their own company. Of course it is nice to have the choice, to meet up for a coffee and chat. We are just starting to network a little in the village (after 18 months!) I am so out of my depth in a crowd, Im always on the sidelines. Put me in a one to one situation and Im much more at my ease.

I rarely talk about myself in company, i always think I will be boring people with my life, job, home etc. I probably know every last detail about other people but I doubt that the few long standing friends I have (who are scattered to all corners of the world) have a clue what job I do or about where I live! I phoned a friend last night and about 80% of the 1 hour call was about her life, but I probably set up the convo that way, and didn't mind at all. We talked about me about 5 mins before we said goodbye

I havent been on Facebook for 2 years, my maximum friends count was 29 so I decided to cut loose.

By the sound of all the threads moaning about Fb behaviour, I don't think Im missing much.

tiawalters i expect your Uni friend values quantity over quality Over a lifetime, the number of true friends can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Probably why people have those Fb culls, they see friendships like old pairs of shoes or handbags - throw-away!

I have come back to this thread from yesterday because I am feeling very down in the dumps today. I feel like the last few social engagements I have been to have been a disaster. I haven't felt like talking, have sat on the sides not knowing what to say and feeling like the most boring person on the planet. One of these social engagements was my own birthday!

Last night I went for a drink with a few friends. One of them made a flippant comment along the lines of me being quiet, saying "Remember when you used to be fun and cool Chrome? Now you're just boring!"

I know deep down it was probably an off the cuff remark and he will have thought no more of it. But I cycled home by myself in the dark in tears! I am not so much shy, I just don't know what to say and feel so anxious all the time that nobody likes me.

I wish I could get over this. If nothing else it's very arrogant to be giving myself so much attention. But I seem to be stuck in a cycle where I worry about being boring - so that means I am.

After many failed attempts I am managing to meditate most days, listening to a Jon Kabat Zin download, 40 mins long. I feel more 'together' and laid back, am sure it helps with socializing (making you less anxious). Just sit for the time, trying only to be aware of breathing, ignoring the constant thoughts.

It is tedious and boring but worth giving a try. I think an 8 week trial is recommended.

Sorry if this is bad MN etiquette (I'm never sure!) but I've just started a new thread here.

Would love some feedback on this from anyone who has a moment, as it's similar to some of the discussions we've had here, and I'd be really grateful another perspective on it. Apologies again for hijacking, but you all sound so wise and lovely that I'd really appreciate your advice on this!

grateful for - sorry!

Self reflection is always useful. Some of what is being described is social anxiety. Some of what is being described is developmental.

Broadly, I think there might be an issue of managing expectations. A great phrase I learnt on here "Friends for a reason, friends for a season, friends for life". I'd say in a ratio of 60:30:10.

A person is like a Rubik's cube, different people see different sides of you, you are constantly evolving, acting and reacting. Each friendship helps to build the whole you. Even bad friendships that go wrong.

You don't have to be like someone to like them. Other people are interesting specifically because they aren't like you.

I note several pp saying their hobbies are weird, or more intellectual than the mainstream, dare I suggest, isn't that a little presumptuous? Can I not like classical music and country, and teenage DD fave 1Direction. I enjoy Dr Who and Newsnight. I'm interested in medieval history and want to know what is the new Spring Summer fashion look. I have a keen interest in geopolitical matters, read The Economist, Private Eye and the showbiz section of the Daily Mail. I can also comment fluently on David Beckham's ahem, advertising.

I don't do geocaching, Game of Thrones, gaming or RPG but can see why someone might like my DH.

There is a myth perpetuated by social media that everyone else is living the dream. People present an edited version of what they want people to see. They aren't living the dream. Just as you aren't and I'm not. Social media is just a device to beat yourself up with. It's hundreds of other "friends" judging you. I don't need that, I can judge myself.

Some people stay where they were born and grew up as it gives them security, others leave because they are stultified by it, each choice is perfectly valid.

You don't need to be in a group to be legitimised, you need to be yourself. As pp said at different stages of life it is easier to make friends, at other not so easy, it doesn't mean you need to give up trying.

P.S. baby classes are the seventh ring of hell in my world. I was a refusenik. Just because this group of women gave birth at the same time as me, didn't mean I had to be like them bossy, self righteous, sanctimonious, claiming their baby slept through the night at 7 days and was talking at 4weeks.

You talk a lot of sense ResponsibleAdult! Agree with you on the social media thing. Can't believe the time and effort some people go to curating their photos and status updates to give the world the impression they're living a charmed existence. It looks exhausting.

I probably haven't explained it very well in previous posts, but I do have wide-ranging interests - I'm happy to chat about fashion as much as the next person (I love clothes!) and am not above a bit of showbiz gossip. I don't mean at all that when I meet someone I instantly want to get embroiled in a debate about the Middle East crisis - I know relationships don't work like that! My frustration is, though, that many people only ever want to talk about the superficial stuff, even when you spend a lot of time with them, and it can become very one-dimensional and inward-looking.

I listen to my existing friends going on about their jobs and mortgages and children's schools for hours - I'm a teacher, so I always get asked about educational stuff! But when the conversation turns to what I'm doing, there'll be a cursory 'How's the novel coming along?' and then they instantly glaze over. I just want my friendships to be balanced, so I'm not always being made to feel weird for being interested in things that are outside other people's comfort zone.

I am like this, find making friends really hard, doing hobbies has made loads of aquantances, but i have found a new good friend, she has a son who is autistic SO SHE GETS ME, she doesn't get offended when i say something "honest" like "your hair looks weird today" (or if i have practiced not commenting on her hair looking weird "oh your hair DOESN'T look weird today").
So you just have to keep hunting until you find that person who clicks.

damn i missed there were 7 pages AGAIN

Temps, that is annoying. People can be thoughtless and self interested. Perhaps if your preface your response with "Thanks for asking, I've made good progress but would value some input......" That way you incentivise the friends to remain engaged as they are warned you expect a response at the end. They don't want to be seen to be rude so have to listen.

Temps this line said something to me..
"there'll be a cursory 'How's the novel coming along?' and then they instantly glaze over."
has your novel been going for a VERY long time? did you tend to rather over do discussions of it when you started and people have very long memories of being bored about a topic? do you tend to go into intricute detailed descriptions of technical stuff that is the topic of the book, or full back stories of a character who is really small in the book?

Just realised you can't answer that question you will have to get one of them 1 on 1, and explain in full detail you want an honest answer, and not get offended by the response (put a bag over your head if you can't do poker face)

SarcyMare if anything I think I'm probably too far the opposite way - very conscious of boring people who don't know/care about what I'm going on about so I tend not to answer in too much depth. (Oh, and novel has been in the pipeline for quite a while, so you're right there!)

But that's what I was trying to get when I implied my interests were perhaps a bit unconventional; the things most of my friends are interested in are very mainstream (houses, their DC, schooling) and of course I'm happy to discuss them too. But the things I prefer to talk about (books, ideas, what's in the news) don't seem to be as universally accessible. I think most of my current friends prefer to talk almost exclusively about things that take place in their own lives or those of friends and family, while I prefer to talk about ideas and what's going on in the wider world. That seems to be the key sticking point!