I just cannot find my 'people' anywhere.

[mymoonandstars]

I suppose I should just write it as it comes out.

I have lots of friends. I have quite a good social life that if I wanted to take a more active role in, I could. But I just always feel on the fringes of friendships, the friend you always forget was there the time that funny thing happened. People talk over me. Someone will say something I just said and it will raise a laugh where as mine just fell flat. I have just returned from a night out where I felt like the most isolated person in the entire world. The things I like and enjoy are considered eccentric by the mainstream (alternative music, I don't watch television, I read ALOT) and I suppose I am essentially an introvert who would still like to 'get out there' but at times I just need to rest my soul.

I dont think I will ever find friends I can totally be myself with without at least some degree of checking myself. Anyone out there with any advice or who have similar feelings? I would be really happy to talk.

[ProfYaffle]

I was going to join this thread and say how at home I felt but then I saw the country music comment .....

Out of interest, what are all these hobbies that other people find so strange?

[SolidGoldBrass]

The only aspect of it that really bothers me is that I get concerned for DS. I wonder if the fact that he doesn't get invited to other kids' houses much is because the other kids' mums don't relate to me.
(His dad always says, bear in mind that a lot of the rest of the parents will have known each other all their lives, which may be true.)

However, DS doesn't seem that bothered.

[tenderbuttons]

I'm just signing in to say me too, I could have written most of the posts on here. Moved from London to smallish town? Tick. Not clicked with many people here? Tick. Losing contact with my oldest friends? Tick. Feeling odd, different, preferring to talk one on one than go to parties. Yes, yes and yes again. Although I don't geocache, but I know people who do.

whatdoesittake - I think a lot of what you say about yourself is true about me too, I am going to go away and think about that.

[TheHoneyBadger]

solidgoldbrass "Well, actually, if you're an ignorant racist, a homophobe or a misogynist then yes, I do think I'm better than you." i have had frequent occasions of loving you over the years sgb bit of a namechanger these days so i've lost my 'me' on mn but it was necessary.

yes there clearly are places where it's going to be harder to fit in because you're surrounded by those types you describe and NO i'm not disappointed that i couldn't fit in with a group of women with nothing better to talk about than what their husbands did for a living and what new conservatory they were getting. nor is it surprising that 'support our troops' and 'EDL' type men think i'm a strange uppity bitch that given they can't fuck me want to fight me instead. fight or fuck really does seem to be the extent of their range around women and i definitely don't want to fuck them actually!

just being happy, single, independent and not the same as everyone else round here is enough to single you out as needing stripping down a peg or two or writing off as a lesbian or a crazy lady. and like someone else said i talk to strangers, smile at old ladies and chat to mums coping with a tantrum on the bus and all of that stuff which apparently makes me odd too.

sod it. being an oddity around here is a good thing frankly.

[TheHoneyBadger]

i can't join in with the weird hobbies thing - though actually i think reading books counts as weird here.

[dimsum123]

I so love this thread. Reading it has really made me feel better about myself. A pp said she did have friends but she didn't have a 'gang'. That is me. And yet because so many school mums seem to be in little groups/gangs I have felt I have no friends. But I do have friends, just no gang.

I am also not too weird, but I think I'm just boring and a bit meh, as pp's have said.

I did have a rubbish childhood though and I do think that is why I simply cannot seem to click with any women. I do have friends from uni but only one is female. I prefer men but once I became a mum I seemed to be thrown into a female only environment. My worst nightmare! No wonder I struggled at baby groups and hate the school run.

[wol1968]

Have been reading this thread with interest. I had a truly horrible time in my schooldays with verbal bullying and exclusion, which has left me with lifelong insecurities around friendship (especially female friendship), and I have often felt exactly the same as many here describe. Being the youngest in my family by some way didn't help either as I grew up preferring my own company. I loathe the superficiality of the school run and shudder at the memory of the artificial forced socialisation of the baby groups that were supposed to combat loneliness (if those groups had a taste, they would taste of sour instant coffee and imitation Rich Tea biscuits, the only biscuits to pass the health police test).

A couple of things strike me: one is that common interests does not necessarily lead to friendship, especially when, as with music and reading, the enjoyment of those interests is essentially individual. I personally hate discussing music with other people, and books aren't much better when you've done an English degree and find the leading questions they ask about books in a book club frankly infantile. The other thing is that there's something wrong with a culture that makes such huge numbers of people feel wrong and out of place. I wonder what it is. Is it to do with the tyranny of fashion? Unrealistic expectations of friendship? The all-consuming nature of modern middle-class parenting? Or something more fundamental?

[tiawalters]

With so many people feeling like outsiders, you start wondering who the insiders are? I guess the insiders are the ones who manage over the years to keep friends, and groups of friends, and who are never dumped by them without explanation. And those who feel supported and safe in those circles.

I have done both, dumped and being dumped, but I suppose as life goes by you notice that people change and they're hardly the same person they were when you became friends. We change too and probably start being less tolerant with people.

I think culture has a lot to answer for too. I think Southern European cultures tend to live closer to their families, so the need to find these steady friends or groups of friends might not be so strong. You may have a few friends outside family but they're not your main source of social interactions and support.

I think people tend to live much lonelier lives in Northern Europe and the US. Families are spread out and sometimes not that close (though sometimes that can be a blessing!) But the downside of it is that people have to rely much more on solid friendship for support. And that can be hard to find as people's emotional resources can be scarce too.

[chrome100]

I feel like you. I have lots of friends and socialise a lot, but I always feel "on the edge" and as though it wouldn't matter if I weren't there.

I think this is down to several things: 1) pure and simple paranoia on my part and 2) shyness. Ironically, the first makes the second worse, which makes the first worse and it's a viscious circle where I end up feeling isolated, so not speaking and then of course I am not the life and soul of the party which I want to be.

I think everyone feels outside to some extent and those that don't tend to be people who are comfortable in their own skin and just get on with things. My DP is very much like this, he doesn't care whether people like him or not, whether people text him etc, he's just himself, and as a result he is very much liked.

[chrome100]

Also, in my younger days, I used to do a lot of ecstasy with my friends. Of course this breaks down barriers and everyone is open. That's part of why I did it - I felt so free! I could be myself! I was warm towards people and they towards me. Of course none of it was real but I often reflect on those times and think that it's such a shame that people need artificial stimulants to be like that and I try and cultivate that same openness at all times. It's a lot harder than it sounds though.

[Ladyfoxglove]

wol1968 I agree with your comment regarding common interests. So much of what we tend to do if we are introverts is done alone (solitary interests like reading, gaming, writing, painting etc.) so it's difficult to discuss those things at length with others let alone do them with others.

It's a shame that the prevailing culture is one of (some might say) superficiality and extroversion.

[ProfYaffle]

Chrome - I think the whole ecstasy thing rubbed off on a lot of the non-mainstream youth culture at the time. Even if you weren't dropping Es and reaching for the lasers yourself, any non-mainstream club scene felt quite warm and open at the time.

[Ragwort]

My DP is very much like this, he doesn't care whether people like him or not, whether people text him etc, he's just himself, and as a result he is very much liked.

That's a good point chrome - I do think some people are incredibly 'needy' and they probably find it hard to make friends - I have someone like that in my life and it is quite painful really, she is desperate to be my friend and is always contacting me with superficial reasons and she doesn't seem to get the subtle hints that I really don't want to see so much of her. There does seem to be a tendancy to over analyse friendships - I have a huge circle, some people I obviously get on better with, some I don't, but I don't spend ages agonising over friendship issues .

[TempsPerdu]

So many wise posters on this thread! And so many people who could be me. OP, I feel exactly the same. I had a slightly Eeyoreish time this morning mulling over this issue, and was just coming on here to post when I noticed this thread. Feeling much better now I’ve read some of the wonderfully insightful replies.

I'd describe myself as a 'sociable introvert' - I'm not shy (any more - used to be as a child but have since developed much better social skills) and I'm fairly confident in social situations. I'll never be a 'loud', gregarious person, though, and while I crave social interaction, I definitely need down time afterwards. I'm definitely guilty at looking at endless Instagram photos on Facebook and feeling terrible about my own decidedly low-key social life. It doesn't help that both DP and I have tiny families, or that DP is outright antisocial and has few friends of his own, so there's no natural social network there and I'm the one making all the effort to meet new people. I'm also very aware, though, that there's a real disconnect between the carefully curated images we see on social networking sites and the reality of most people's lives. I often wonder how many of the Facebook acquaintances whose social lives I've idealized actually feel as isolated as I do.

Lots of people have mentioned how difficult it is when we tend to move around a lot and don’t form lasting friendships as a result. I agree – I’ve done this myself with jobs and missed out on potential friendships with colleagues – but it’s also difficult if, like me, you end up living back where you grew up (not intentional - DP’s work is in London and it was one of the few areas we could afford) and you no longer fit in with the people you grew up with. However I behave, my local friends now seem to view me as slightly ‘Other’ – quirky; cerebral; a bit outside the mainstream, and odd for not following the conventional marriage/kids route. I certainly can’t be ‘myself’ with them, as they’d automatically switch off! As others have said, I'm not expecting them to share all of my interests, but just to care similarly about something that's not part of their immediate lives.

It's taken years to dawn on me that many (most?) friendships are essentially superficial, and that this simply isn’t an issue for many people. Like many others on this thread, I’m quite a deep thinker, and have always been interested in the world around me – books, music, plays, politics etc. When I was teaching, I’d sit in the staff room during lunch time listening to someone going on about 'mainstream' stuff such as TOWIE, or the fault in their new washing machine, and wonder if it was only me who was finding it all incredibly dull. I’ve learnt to go through the motions with small talk, but in conversations I’m always biding my time, waiting for topics to turn to deeper issues. It very rarely happens! Most people seem to thrive on banter and casual, jokey interactions, whereas I’m always looking for something else – some kind of friendship bonding that goes a bit deeper.

[whatdoesittake48]

I wonder if people really thriveon the superficial talk of houses and babies and celebrities or if they are just as bored asrwe are but social convention prevents them from saying so. Are we sleep walking through conversations with all participants waiting for it to get to an interesting topic.
Would life change for everyone if we just all express our interests wiyhput fear. Even most of those mums at school are just following a script but we just dont realise. Maybe...

[whatdoesittake48]

Apologies for the phone errors. Too lazy to correct.

[TempsPerdu]

Good points whatdoesittake48 - I'm sure you're right in lots of cases. But, in my experience, whenever I try to change a conversation from banter to e.g. travel, or books, or something in the news, everyone else just clams up (presumably because they don't share my interest in it). The deputy head of one school I worked at actually said "Ooh, you're quite a serious person, aren't you?", when I mentioned a film I'd seen, which did put me off somewhat! Maybe it's just me being weird though.

Re social convention, I think there are some topics - houses/DIY, some TV programmes, celebrities - that are considered 'safe' because it's assumed everyone has something to say about them. But those of us who tend towards less mainstream tastes can then get a bit stuck because we don't know/care about these topics. DP has this problem with football - he loathes it, but because it's seen as the universal male bonding tool, he feels like he has to join in with the football banter, and ends up looking like even more of an outsider by not knowing enough about it. He's very knowledgeable about cricket, or food, or Newsnight, but these are seen as slightly leftfield interests by those he works with.

Anyway, I'm fine with participating in 'filler' conversations for a bit if they move on something else; my issue is that very often friendships never seem to develop beyond the small talk level. I have work colleagues who regularly hang out and profess undying love to each other on Facebook, but only ever seem to bond over a shared love of David Beckham's underwear ads.

[ProfYaffle]

My DP is very much like this, he doesn't care whether people like him or not, whether people text him etc, he's just himself, and as a result he is very much liked.

I've been thinking about this point, dh is very much in the same vein. He's seen as eccentric but charmingly so iyswim. I wonder if it's easier for men, are they subject to different social expectations?

[eddielizzard]

i'm happy to have 'weather' type conversations, but just the banal natter isn't going to develop into friendship for me.

i also like to discuss anything other than superficial and i suspect some people find me hard going. compared to my dh i'm a walk in the park!

[Openup41]

I have felt like this for most of my life. I am a natural introvert but can be sociable. I have learnt how to come out of my shell and embrace people. I love time to myself though and for years, did not understand why.

I am a friend to everybody so have many on the surface relationships with most people and deep relationships with very few.

I have not had a best friend since secondary school.

I tend to know when somebody is interested in being friends or if they just want the occasional banter when we bump into one another. It took me a while and I have been hurt a few times on realising that I kept the friendship going.

[Openup41]

I have felt like this for most of my life. I am a natural introvert but can be sociable. I have learnt how to come out of my shell and embrace people. I love time to myself though and for years, did not understand why.

I am a friend to everybody so have many on the surface relationships with most people and deep relationships with very few.

I have not had a best friend since secondary school.

I tend to know when somebody is interested in being friends or if they just want the occasional banter when we bump into one another. It took me a while and I have been hurt a few times on realising that I kept the friendship going.

[ProfYaffle]

I'm Ok with small talk but I find it very difficult to move from that to a proper friendship. I always call it the black box of social interaction, I'm never really sure how to move from one state to the other.

In many ways dating it easier because it's so much more upfront. "Do you want to go for a drink?", "are we boyfriend and girlfriend now?", "let's keep it casual", "shall we get married?". It's all discussed. The same doesn't happen in friendships "Shall we move on from small talk to going to the pub?", "are we best friends or is this just a life stage friendship?" etc etc.

[Openup41]

One of the posters mentioned being ignored when they walked through the school gates with a popular mum. As a teenager I regularly walked into school with a friend and our peers rushed up to her completely ignoring me.

I stood there feeling invisible. I told myself there and then that I was not worth knowing and in general was irrelevant as a person.

In a sad way, this feeling still lingers. I am convinced I am boring and worry that if someone grows to know me, they will think I have nothing to offer.

There is a mother at the school gates who comes across as a nice person. At least 10 parents, mothers and fathers flock around her and her dc. I wonder what it is about her that gravitates people towards her.

I have never been the in person or centre of attention at any one place and have accepted this.

[Openup41]

I used to be so envious of the popular and pretty girls at school. The way everyone hung off their every word and wanted a piece of them.

I did not fit into any of the friendship groups at school.

I blended into the background. I made myself invisible as a way of protecting myself against the bullies. The attention I received was to humiliate me.

[TempsPerdu]

I know what you mean, Openup41 - amazing how outwardly quite insignificant experiences from years ago can form such a big part of our adult identity. You're like a sponge as a teenager, absorbing everything anyone says to or about you - I'm still very much affected by some cruel comments that a 'friend' made about me on a school trip when I was about 12!

I was shy at school but had a small group of friends. Never bullied or anything, but never pushed myself forward and was terrified of speaking up in class, so was generally overlooked. At university I sort of reinvented myself - by being forced to interact, doing presentations, spending a year abroad etc. I've gradually overcome my shyness. Now I'm quite an odd mixture I think - I can come across as quite confident and warm in the right context, but because I hate talking about trivial stuff I can also seem reserved and aloof. Also, I'm quite academic, and my interests veer towards the more highbrow end of things, so I think I'm often regarded as a bit of an intellectual snob.

I've always been interested in psychology, and did a Myers-Briggs test a few years about as part of my PGCE. It explained a great deal! I came out as an INFP, which means that I'm an idealistic introvert. Part of my problem, I think, is that I'm far too idealistic when it comes to friendships (and life in general); I very vividly visualise what my 'ideal' friends would be like, in a way that other people don't seem to, and am disappointed when real-life relationships don't live up to this. I also have a rose-tinted view of humanity in general (as opposed to DP, who is an INTJ and much more misanthropic/realistic!) and consequently I always want to reach out to people and find out how they tick. I've only slowly come to realise that many people don't want to be 'reached out' to or understood in this way!