Graham Norton's answer on his "advice" page in the Telegraph

[SauceForTheGander]

I'm just catching up on the weekend's papers & read this - and posting here as it's not dissimilar to threads started in Relationships.

Q: Dear Graham
I strongly suspect my husband is looking at pornography on his computer, and I don’t know how to approach him about it. He seems to look at it at any opportunity: when I am watching my favourite programmes, or I go out. He says he is doing his photos (he is an amateur photographer) but I know he isn’t. If I go upstairs there is a lot of shuffling about (this also happens if I open the front door having been out). I have tried creeping up the stairs to see what he is doing, but they creak too much. I have obviously thought of asking him directly, but I feel he will not admit it and I am not computer literate so I don’t know how to prove it. Have you any suggestions? You may say this is something a lot of men do, but I don’t like him doing it. I have even thought of buying a spy camera, which really shouldn’t even enter my head.
Poppy,
Buckinghamshire

Here's Graham's answer

A: Dear Poppy
No man is especially proud of looking at porn but in terms of bad behaviour in a relationship I think we can all agree that it ranks fairly low. I understand that there are questions of morality when it comes to the production of these films but then you probably wear make-up that has been tested on animals. The modern world is a moral minefield and we must all tread carefully.
There are some questions you must ask yourself. Is your husband paying you less sexual attention than you’d like? If the answer is yes then you have a right to comment on his computer-based activities because you would rather he focus his attentions on you. If, as I suspect, the answer is no, then you may just have to accept that you have married a man with a sex drive considerably greater than yours. Deny him his online fun and I wonder where he might go next? A lot of women bestow on men an emotional depth that we don’t possess. This has nothing to do with you or your relationship. It is very basic. Part of his pleasure may lie in the fact that it’s secret. Try to forgive his weakness and see his inept attempts to hide his clandestine internet activities as somehow sweet. By the way, if you really are completely computer illiterate, good luck operating that spy camera!

Poppy - I doubt you're mumsnetter - but I wish you were. I wish you'd come to the relationships section and talked to us first.

Any other Poppy's out there? Graham is talking utter bollocks. Looking at porn constantly (if that's what her DH is actually doing) is not "sweet"

This was in the telegraph FFS. I don't think he should be allowed to give out advice - I hope Poppy hasn't followed it.

[SauceForTheGander]

You don't have to raise your DCs that way for them to absorb misogyny. The porn industry will do it for you.

[LittlePeaPod]

Sauce thanks for sharing the clip but its unlikly I will watch an hour long online clip on a subject that doesnt really bother me.

So you actually believe everyone who uses porn is an addict?

I really am in different and struggle to get any fire about this. We live in a world were the Internet exists and children will have access to a lot of information parents would probably prefer they didn't see/read. But its out there and that's not going to change. Personally I believe its my responsibilty as a parent to try and ensure my child grows up with the right moral compass.

[SauceForTheGander]

Little that's the second time you've asked and I've answered no.

[LittlePeaPod]

Sauc I asked again because your previous answer was unclear. It looked more like you were saying "yes" rather tan "No"

[SauceForTheGander]

little if you have DCs they will most likely watch porn one day so educate yourself so you can educate them what is contained and perpetuated by the porn industry. The age for first viewing porn is 11.

The average shelf life of a porn star is 3 months. Injuries sustained include STDs (in eyes as well as sexual organ) and prolapsed anus.

[SauceForTheGander]

Sorry - didn't realise it was unclear - thought you had missed.

No - just as people can imbibe addictive substances and not become addicted so people can watch porn and not become addicted. But the casual acceptance of it in the wider society will come at a cost IMO.

[LittlePeaPod]

Sauce you are making a lot of assumptions about my level of knowdgle on this subject based on a few vague posts and my opinion on it. That's rather niave. I do have a DD and I (like other parents) will educate her how I see fit.

[FatherJake]

You don't have to be a man-hater to know that almost every man watches porn. I am amazed that so many actually come out with the old 'we've discussed it and actually he's very opposed to it - in fact he's a feminist' line. Arsenal is spot on and yes, on this issue men know other men far, far better than their wives know them. It comes up in discussion now and again and all men are on the same page.

This Mitchell and Webb clip sums up the whole thing perfectly...

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

If all men lie, and my husband tells me he watches porn, does that mean that he actually doesnt??!

Anywho, important bit. Man is hiding something from his wife. Could be porn, could be addiction to mn, could even be organising a surprise party for their anniversary or something. What makes her think it is something negative? What makes he think its porn in particular? What other problems in the relationship do these assumptions come from? Generally a bit of a sexist twat, or are you suddenly assuming from nowhere that your housework-doing, baby-wearing, feminist dh is a twat? I know which sounds more likely to me.

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Apart from all the porn crap in "GN"s post, I'm really irritated at "all men have the emotional depth of a puddle"

[SauceForTheGander]

I'm not making assumptions Little - I've given your parenting no thought to be honest. I'm answering you but speaking generically about parents needing to be aware of not only the porn their DCs are watching but what their peers will be watching. There was no intent to judge how you are raising your DD. God no.

I also don't believe DH is a feminist. Because men can't be feminists. They can be allies. But that's not the point of my comment.

Why does every man watches porn make this situation better?

[Lottapianos]

To the 'all men watch porn and if you think otherwise you're a naive idiot' people, what sort of things do you think 'all' women do (and possibly lie about?)

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Another one for "all men watch porn" or "all men lie about porn"

Do all women watch porn? Or do no women watch porn? Or is it something inbetween, allowing for individual differences between, well, individuals?

[BeCool]

I am still perplexed as to why anyone would ask GN for relationship advice, never mind take it seriously.

Lotte you are missing the point - this column is published in and by a newspaper. It doesn't care that one person may need advice and GN isn't giving one person, "Poppy" advice. Whether Poppy is real or not, the advice and the messages contained in it (as discussed above) is given to all the readers.

Poppy is irrelevant really.

[SauceForTheGander]

Is porn more acceptable if you believe all men watch porn, all porn love porn and men are entitled to watch porn.

Does that make it all fine?

Or is it way of silencing any opposition to porn by turning those of us against into man hating, sex averse nasty feminists. Because if that's the case - then you've been more influenced by porn than realise.

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Another one...

Do m>f transexuals watch porn as "biological" males, or not as gender females? Same question in reverse for f>m? (Apologies to any trans if my terms are wrong)

How about asexual males?

XXY or related conditions?

[SauceForTheGander]

Sorry - that should be all men love porn and not all porn love porn.

As an aside my auto correct agrees with me as tries to change porn to poem every time

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Porn does indeed love porn

[LittlePeaPod]

BeCool it was me that wrote that post not Lotte. The thing is I wouldn't even stop on a newspaper page full of relationship advice written by GN. I don't read these pages because I don't take them seriously. I think to assume intellectual adults will form their opinions based on what GN writes in the relationship pages of a newspaper is a stretch.

If it was a respected journalist like Adam Boulton or Andrew Marr well that would be different.

[SauceForTheGander]

I agree with Little about GN . I also agree GN isn't qualified to give advice yet his prominence in a broadsheet remains unchallenged and he's filled a book with his advice. So what he says matters.

If it's in the paper it could and should be challenged. And clearly he's got a lot of support as this thread has shown in the form "porn is fine, all men do it - you're an idiot if you think your DH doesn't"

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Do non-intellectual adults not deserve decent relationship advice? Or does it not matter how they live and procreate because they are all some kind of underclass?

[WhitegoldWielder]

Projecting much?

I would argue that some men don't actually want their DSs to be successful in relationships because males 'compete' even against their own offspring.

Promoting normality in porn as 'it's just what men do ' is becoming more damaging to young men. Evidence for this is in the increasing figures of mental health issues in the 18-25 age group as well as the worrying number of suicides. I am sure a lot of dads who post on here never had a frank discussion with their own fathers on sex, relationships and use of porn as well as understanding emotions. 'Boys don't cry'.

With the wealth of porn available now that was not freely available when you were young I'd argue that young males are at a crisis point in developing healthy relationships as no one is willing to discuss it with them. Arse wants to impose this normality - what happens if a teen is frightened by what they see? Disgusted? Horrified? Feels guilty?' Dad says it's fine but I don't think it is. Is that how I'm supposed to treat a girl?'

Bravado in front of mates? Scared of being called gay? Or less manly if you don't want sex that way? Men learn to lie about porn. But I'd argue it's not to their partners. It's more likely to be to their mates cause it's not worth the hassle. And the most vocal porn watcher in a group of males is probably ridiculed behind his back particularly when the other friends no longer view it because they now see it from a different perspective ( like some of my male friends who are fathers of daughters).

[LittlePeaPod]

Beyound are you seriously suggesting working class people are untellectual. Do people need a degree or need to come from privilege to be intellectual now? Is that how you judge it? Wow?....

[LittlePeaPod]

Off to go tend to my DD.

[SauceForTheGander]

No - beyond is responding to your "intellectual" comment little