To the lady who just got off the train at Clapham Junction..

[sophiaverloren]

Please don't marry him. At least, not yet. He has just spent 5 uninterrupted minutes telling you how shit the wedding make up has been whoever has done it. You would look better without it . You don't know what you are talking about. And, when asked what's wrong and you say " I get it, just don't go on about it" ( cos he was..) COMPLETELY IGNORED YOU and did the "yes but you need to know this" thing. He was HORRIBLE. I sincerely hope he'd had a few so had got hung up on one subject, but darling, that's not the impression I got.

On train home, had a few myself but felt desperately uncomfortable to be witness to the conversation and wanted to let it out...

ha! ok, i think i have changed it...

new card with correct spelling

Talisa that's awful :( I suppose it's too long ago now but I wonder if the petrol station had CCTV, they usually do to identify drive-offs.

Nothing would have been done though Bertie, she would never have pressed charges. She was so young

I remember coming out of our local park with a friend seeing a guy scream in his girlfriend's face about something. She was crying and begging him to calm down and he slapped he and walked off. She called for him to come back and he just said "oh, fuck off you stupid cow" and carried on walking.

She just sat down and cried and my friend and I went over to her to see if she needed anything. Lo and behold the "D"P came back and started harassing us. Luckily a group of guys came past and pulled him off and he eventually left.

I still wonder what happened to her :(

True. I think now though the police can press charges even if the victim doesn't want to.

I think that's fab, Crikey, really. I don't like the idea of MN cards, sorry to say. The idea is nice in abstract but I prefer the approach of Womens' Aid in their discreet manner. Posters here are so sensitised to 'red flags' and can be so group-led that the cards could be handed out at any incident, whatever it was, it's hard enough to have to have your embarrassment/misery witnessed, but to be handed a card, however well-meaning? Nope. Leave it to the experts... I would wholeheartedly support a fund raise for more lip balms - for Womens' Aid. I don't support the cards because it might be perceived as patronising and, for me, it's a little bit cowardly.

There are some posters who've intervened, offered solidarity and compassion to women, putting themselves in 'discomfort' by risking abuse too - and they've probably done more good than they will know. More of this, that's what I think we need - it's not ok for women to be abused and these men are cowards.

I wanted to punch the air at KoalaFace's friend's intervention, that was incredible. I think Alice made the point well that it would be so beneficial for men to demonstrate to other men that horrible behaviour isn't the norm and that it isn't tolerated.

Meant to say also that intervention is immediate - the men get the message and the woman gets instant support that she needs. Some great examples of this in the thread.

This thread reminds me of a time when I was about 12 or 13 and walking to the shop with my little brother. We bumped into my dad (who didn't live with us). I think he was drunk and he was being very verbally aggressive towards us and I think he punched my brother.. My memory is a bit hazy. After he stormed off a lady came over and asked if we were ok. I said 'it's fine we know him' or something like that and quickly walked away scared of getting anyone involved. Even to this day just the thought that she cared makes me feel so touched.

I expect a person, male or female, in a threatening situation where they feel powerless, or even blaming themselves in case "it must be me" would feel at least a sense of support if someone cared enough to hand them a card.

There is never an excuse for someone bawling another person out in public, that isn't about taking something out of context, or getting the wrong end of the stick, its about someone being vile and nasty to another human being in front of strangers. Its humiliating, and if all it does is make the person stop and think a bit closer about their behaviour, then bloody good job too.

I am sure MNers are not so "sensitised" to red flags that they would hand out cards willy-nilly. May only hand one card in a lifetime, but it could save a person's life We're an intelligent bunch

nothing wrong with being sensitised to red flags ffs. man screaming at, humiliating and/or being physically aggressive to a woman is not something i'd want to be desensitised to thanks all the same.

How so, daisy? How is handing out a card more effective than standing by a person and supporting them, be it with a tissue or quick hug, touch on arm, look of sympathy? How does the 'slipping of a card' in any way challenge the behaviour of the person doing the abusing?

I think that some MNers would hand out cards - perhaps not willy-nilly - but as if they were on some kind of mission because that is how these things happen on here sometimes, people like to be needed and validated. I didn't want to say 'mob mentality' but that is it really, even if it's a kindly mob. The person finding the card might have no idea what they'd received it for and might feel humiliated at whatever it was being witnessed, not being acknowledged but 'slipped a card'.

If I were MNHQ, I'd be really quite concerned at being thought of as condoning 'advertising' of the site. I would really like to participate in a campaign to perhaps make 'supporters' more vocal, less embarrassed at confronting vile bullies. That wold be so much more effective, in my opinion. Kudos to all of those who confront, that would be my goal too as scary and uncomfortable as it can be to do that. If it were my daughter or son or friend or whoever, I'd value that a lot more than them finding a card in their pocket, bag or whatever.

as opposed to getting a kicking because 'she had caused a scene in the eyes of the abuser?

no, you're quite right. do nothing is the answer.

if mob mentality is what it takes to start tackling abuse i'm ok with that put down.

lying I'm not suggesting that handing a card is better than other forms of support. I think that it depends on the context, who is involved etc. and how the opportunity presents itself.

If you're dealing with complete strangers, I cant imagine it would be appropriate or even possible to hand-hold, because I wouldnt want to get involved in someone else's row - ie in their physical space as such. That would be overstepping the mark. Conversely I would feel bad about spinning on my heals and walking away.

So I would see the card as a non-confrontational, benign gesture, to hand to the person under verbal attack, then I would walk away. I dont think the person would feel confused if it was one of the awful stand up rows some of the PPs have described, it would be quite a memorable situation, they would know what the card was for, if it has the right (brief) info on it. They could choose to use it or bin it.

I do agree with you, its a fine balance between 'rescuing' and offering solidarity to a person in a terrible situation.

Instead of the fake barcode or a spiel on the card why not just put a qr code on?

Dead easy to make

www.qrstuff.com

What are you talking about, HoneyBadger? The 'scene' wouldn't be of the making of the woman, would it? Do/say something is what I said, not do nothing. I'd wonder at somebody witnessing my abuse closely enough to hand me a card or slip it into my bag - and not doing/saying anything in my support or defence.

Here you are

Badger, if it got to the point of physical abuse I would call the police like a shot. I think the card is for someone talking to their partner abusively or disrespectfully.

Once physical violence is involved that's a whole different ball-game.

Most people don't know what a qr code is though and even if they did, wouldn't look, thinking it was a sales thing someone had given them. At least the card is obvious, and if they read it and want it they can keep it, if not, at least they know someone was thinking of them.

I understand what you mean, daisy. I've read this thread and others where posters have confronted bullies, so courageous. I suppose if it's not possible to stand up for somebody, for whatever reason, then a card is at least contact of sorts. If somebody were being verbally attacked though, how would you give them a card without their abuser seeing it?

I was at a posh antiques fair once and my then boyfriend said something very disparaging to me, in a joky way. A passing older woman turned round and said to me that I should leave him immediately, because he clearly had little respect for women, that I shouldn't let anyone talk to me like that, and I deserved better. At the time I was outraged and annoyed that she had dared to criticise my perfect man for being funny. With hindsight, she was of course quite right, and I let him put me down constantly for years before finally leaving. I had not heard about mumsnet, but sadly I am not sure I would have responded well to a card. An argument fir teaching old fashioned values of respect etc in wchools?

Hmm, tricky one. We all know how quick some posters are to shout LTB, so I don't think you could be sure that MNers as a whole, would use the cards appropriately.

I remember once, an older man looking absolutely appalled when, playing bridge at our local club, I laid down the wrong card and dh called me a stupid arse. What he didn't know or, due to a generational thing, what sounded to him like the worst sort of abuse, was actually understood by dh and I to be almost a term of affection - certainly a joke. I would have been a bit or if I'd been handed a card in such a situation.

The mum of a girl at our local primary school was married to a vile nasty bully who beat her up regularly. The worst thing anyone could have done would be to show disapproval of him or even that they noticed that he was being horrible to her. If he knew someone disapproved of how he had spoken to her, or pushed her or anything then it would be her fault and he would beat her up more badly when they got home.

Slipping a card into her pocket would have helped her a lot more, and he would never have known about it.

Maryz , agreed there is a large cross section of people on MN but I don't think it takes an expert to see a clear-cut case of abuse. If someone is raising their voice, being nasty and obnoxious, all it takes is for someone to recognise themselves in that same situation, 5, 10 years ago and the journey they travelled to get to a safer life. Absolving everything to experts is a shame if it cuts out the benefit of real experiences that people have which can help others.

Lying I don't suppose you would be in a position to hide the card from the abuser, I can imagine just walking over to the person 'under assault' handing them the card and withdrawing in a matter-of-fact way. That is probably my attempt at not 'rescuing', just doing something that adds value rather than 'putting a spanner in the works' and inflaming an already volatile situation.

lying obviously it wouldn't be the woman who had caused the scene - hence me saying 'in the eyes of the beholder'. my concern with interfering in a non violent situation or doing something overt is that it would get taken out on her later. that's why i liked the idea of the card if it could be slipped to her.

calling an abuser abusive, telling an abuser off at work, cutting up an abuser at the traffic lights for all i know feeds into them going home and taking it out on the depository of their rage. it's like displacement - go home and kick the cat is the example usually used in psychology to explain that phenomena - re: you save the rage and take it out on the wrong person and in my mind this is a large part of an abusers make up. that's why i hate the whole 'anger management' theory or oh he can't control his temper - he controls it just fine at work or when there's a large man in front of him that he fears violence from, he just comes home and takes it out on the wife or kids safely (for him safe).