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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Not really sure who is wrong in my relationship. Can you help?

147 replies

BarbieCan · 10/05/2014 19:44

I don't even know where to begin.

Bottom line is I am sure H is the problem and he is convinced it is me.

I think I am losing perspective.

There are so many small niggles it is difficult to even start writing about it all.
Maybe if you ask me few questions (like a mediator) I can answer them and than hopefully we can work out who is being unreasonable?

OP posts:
BarbieCan · 20/05/2014 20:52

This all sounds fairly normal in a relationship which is not hunky dory. No, it is not perfect, but your responses were not always either. It's fine, not a big deal, normal I think when a couple is not in a great place
Could you please give me examples so I can understand what I am doing wrong? My responses were not always perfect on this occasion or in the past?

It can come across that you are focusing on the bad in dh, partly as a result of lots of resentments over time. You will keep seeing this as long as you focus on it and block out some of the good stuff too. So maybe he said some other things which were quite nice, but they have been forgotten. It is good to become more aware of doing this and to try and turn on a more positive filter
This is what he always say, that I focus on the negative and done't even see the positive. I guess I take the positives for granted...

Becoming a team means complementing each other (not complimenting!). He sounds generous, laid back, affectionate. You sound dynamic, organised, careful. What a great combination if you can learn some of the other person's strengths. Where you overlap is in negativity, which can make things very difficult as there's no-one to really pull you both up, so you both need to watch that one
This is really helpful. Thanks

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BarbieCan · 20/05/2014 21:03

and judged you against his standard. Hence his negative comment of "what is wrong with you" to let you know that the problem is not on his side but it must be you
Well, I was annoyed he spoke to me like that but didn't want to create an issue so I let it go saying that I was really tired (true) but how could I have handled it better? I feel as I have let myself down and I should have stood up for myself and should have told him I don't appreciate e speaking to me like that. He would than say that he did nothing wrong and I was over reacting and we would start arguing...

Or if you are not sure what he meant, change what you thought in your mind, in the form of a question e.g. "Did you mean the chain ?"
I really NEED to do this more and get into the habit.
To be fair he didn't even know that the restaurant in question was a chain and the branch we were talking about was very new, he had never seen before nor gone to the one I went. BUT I do think he should be more patient and make an effort to communicate with me better too. Specially knowing that I am not a native speaker. And he works a lot of foreigners and people who are here longer than me and they don't speak as well as I do and the ones that do, do not write as well as I do nor have great comprehension when reading, so I wish he would give me more credit. He, of all people, know how far i have come. Or maybe, this is the problem too, there are so many foreigners ate work and he has to be always careful, clear and patient, so when he with me, he just can't take it anymore? Even if it is true, he knew what he was getting into when he started dating me, got married, etc...

Thanks for the links.
I will see if we can watch together.

OP posts:
BarbieCan · 20/05/2014 21:13

Now can anyone tell me if I was right to be annoyed (even though I didn't show, which is a big step for me) when he was calling me "hello" at the shop?

Also, the things that annoyed me this weekend and I kept quiet was:

1- after spending time with Dd at the school fair he came straight home and let her watch TV. The day was beautiful, he had an early night the night before and two days off ahead. Shouldn't he have done more? We have a good park very near, walking distance and lots of playgrounds.

2- The house was messy when I came late from work even though I left it in order. This makes me feel unappreciated. It wouldn't take much for him to actually put rubbish (wrappers, cans) in the bin and get dishes to the kitchen. And pick clothes from the floor, sofa or ask Dd to do it. .e knows i don't want her to grow up with his attitude (thinking people have to clean after her) but he is not role modelling the attitude that I want.

3 - He woke up and tidied up the following day, but I had to chip in too as I wanted to go out and couldn't just stand there and do nothing. But I tried to do the minimum possible.

4- He still spent too many time playing this game on his iPad, and I am concerned now, even if he is not spend as much (he says he is sending very little, I an check but I need to prepare myself tbh), I am worried that he is addicted. He could do so many things with himself instead of playing that stupid game, it is such a waste of life and time but I get it: his life/his problem isn't it?

OP posts:
normalishdude · 20/05/2014 21:29

bit of both i reckon

MerryMarigold · 21/05/2014 11:02

normal Grin.

I think a big thing for you, Barbie, is to get away from the 'whose fault is it?' thing? This is your big refrain: so I am not sure here if this is me or him who is "in the wrong" As the P above said, a bit of both. If you can always think that it's probably a bit of both, I think you'll begin to make progress. At the moment it's all about you being right, I think. I think you like being right, and you want people to tell you, you are right. You want to win arguments, so you get into them. (I can relate to this too).

Your list of things there. Yes, he was not perfect. Again, you are looking at what he didn't do. I feel a bit exhausted even looking at your list! It is very good you didn't say them all (but maybe you have in the past). But still, you really need to catch yourself when doing this. It is very damaging to self esteem to live with someone who constantly feels you are not up to scratch - and you can communicate in many ways other than words, sighs, body language etc. I have been there and it is damaging to self esteem, it's very hard to be positive if you are a negative person always feeling that someone is disapproving of you.

The response I was thinking of was this. Than I said: perhaps I wasn't listening because there were loud music/I was distracted/you were behind me/my name is not Hello. Next time call me by my name...and even more after. Sounds a bit like a tirade. You turned it into an argument. Then it becomes both your fault instead of just that he didn't use your name and it would be helpful if he did. You need to stop retaliating at every small thing, thinking it is a matter of winning or losing. As I tell my kids, especially when they moan about 'he started it', the real winner is the one who stops the fight, not continues it. I think in that instance if you said, "If you used my name it would have got my attention quicker" and then left it. If he continued to come back with something else then just forget it.

I understand these kind of things happen though when you are not close. Everything is irritating, you see the worst. That's why I said it is normal in a couple who are not a great place. Something needs to break the cycle a bit. You can only deal with yourself, but I bet if you are more positive, praise all the good stuff, less quick to find fault, less quick to defend/ argue - that things will improve hugely.

MerryMarigold · 21/05/2014 11:10

Now can anyone tell me if I was right to be annoyed (even though I didn't show, which is a big step for me) when he was calling me "hello" at the shop?

From what you have written, it is clear that you did show you were annoyed with dh at the shop. You went into a long rant! Even if it was not done in an angry voice...it was a lot to take in.

No, I don't think he is wrong to say "hello" to get your attention. Ok, so maybe it is not the best way to get your attention, but it is not wrong or rude or abusive in anyway.

BarbieCan · 21/05/2014 11:31

Ok Merry, thank you so much. All the points taken!

I find it funny that calling someone 'hello' here is not offensive. In my country it would be extremely rude. Now there is another cultural / language barrier for me to overcome.

It is funny too, and now I kind of understand that my response/rant is not ideal, but OMG, if you could see the past you would be Shock by the tirade I would come up with if I wasn't trying to work on the relationship nor keeping my annoyance down!! Yep, I may be hard work after all.

At the moment it's all about you being right, I think. I think you like being right, and you want people to tell you, you are right. You want to win arguments, so you get into them
Are you actually him? That is what he keeps saying...

Well, to my credit, I come from a very abusive failed marriage and I took so much crap that now I have no perspective. I see everything as disrespectful and I am probably very scared of being abused again. A lot to heal and MN helps so much.

Thank you all!

OP posts:
MerryMarigold · 21/05/2014 12:37

You've come a long way already, barbie.

It's funny you say he is immature as he sounds quite perceptive! I can see a bit of all sides, but of course a lot of 'projection' from my own situation. I understand how it is not to 'see' mess or be good at dealing with it. I understand how hard it is to live with someone who looks down on you. I understand what it is to have a dh who is addicted to rubbish TV, and that TV/ DVD is all he does with dc with very little initiative. I also understand what it's like to be in a marriage which feels like it's hit rock bottom.

I think you can get through this, but will be hard work and you've both got to be in it and keep talking honestly but not critically. Hope you can rekindle some love and hope and appreciation (give it a few months though and spot the moments you have it, enjoy them, savour them) to get you through this. Enjoy the progress you make and have made.

Enable/ help him to become what you want him to be (not necessarily because it is 'right' but because it helps you to be happy and meets your needs), for example thinking of things for him to do with dd (such as the summer fair, craft activities etc.), thinking of the monthly deep clean. He in turn needs to enable you to be more of what he needs, so if he needs you to be more affectionate, then to do things which make you want to be affectionate. Maybe you want to have sex after he has deep cleaned the whole house! Fair enough. I'm going to PM you where I live as I'd love to meet for coffee one day and have a good chat, if I'm not far away.

Maisie0 · 21/05/2014 16:03

Well, I guess you should remind him that you do come from another culture and that he should not place high expectation on you to also change too. Not too quickly any way. I can relate to this because I was also expected to do this for work in an international environment, it is tiring. You have to slowly adapt a little bit, but in your own time.

Well, I was annoyed he spoke to me like that but didn't want to create an issue so I let it go saying that I was really tired (true) but how could I have handled it better? I feel as I have let myself down and I should have stood up for myself and should have told him I don't appreciate e speaking to me like that.
So when he did a negative thing, instead of "fighting" directly, you can indeed be vulnerable and let him know that it hurts you or show that what he said did offend you. You may feel let down because you did not choose the right response. If you chose the right response in that moment, you will feel better. Being defensive, or avoiding, can lead to resentment, and anger.

When someone accuse you and that they are not aware of it. If you just say it slowly, and reflect what you feel, then they can recheck and will maybe respond differently. Instead of reacting to his verbal accusation with a verbal response of your feeling, why not "state" your feelings or what you think it sounded like. i.e. "that sounds accusative, it sounds hurtful". I normally use these "uncertainty" words like "sounds like" when it is someone else's expectation of me, and not how I see the situation. He needs to address his own words, and either apologise or directly respond to it more appropriately and accurately.

He would than say that he did nothing wrong and I was over reacting and we would start arguing...
Because you reacted with negative emotion, i.e anger towards his negative emotion, he would "deflect" rather than insult to diffuse the situation, and that is why he then again say it is your fault. Cos he is again judging you by his goggles. But neither of you should judge each other by the other person's goggle, but really to be open and build gaps and bridges. You can only understand him if you become honest and truthful with how you feel too.

That is why I asked you very early on, do you still want to be in this relationship because the motivation to change behaviour has to come from your own heart. The desire has to come from you, otherwise things may not shift or move a certain way.

If you watched that clip of Julia and David. He genuinely have affection for her, so even when she accused him of forgetting her birthday, he actually responded directly and appropriately, also shyly too of what he had done. They must have mutual trust in order to be able to do that. You got to ask yourself if both you and your partner can trust one another implicitly, and to also be able to show one another when you both are vulnerable. Cos only then do you be able to take care of one another's word. But their relationship also exist in this state now because they do also continually try and build up to this point. Even though you can see that they have different personalities.

You may say to us that he "should" know, but he may not be "able to" behave in a certain way unless both of you try to accommodate one another and find mutual grounds. Also, sometimes even as fully grown adults, we may "drop the ball" but allowing the other person to actually room to adapt and pick things back up again is what makes us human.

Maisie0 · 21/05/2014 16:08

Basically, overall, always try to aim for a "good energy" or a "amicable" solution which both parties are happy with. i.e. win-win. If you win but he is hurt, will you feel good in the marriage ? If he wins, and you feel hurt, do you think that he will feel good about himself as a person too ? Does that make sense to you ? We can only own the part that we play. If he did something wrong, you can indeed react with hurt, and then he HAS to take responsibility of his words and his actions and then make amends. It is the only way. Both of you need to. If you nitpick at him about his ipad playing, when he has not done anything wrong, then this is your responsibility to apologise for picking at him for being himself.

BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 19:47

Well I have been trying my hardest for creating a good energy and even thought things were going ok. I have been puting a immnese effort into everything until it all came crashing down on me 5 minutes ago.

So basically I was here on my computer looking at a restaurant's menu, I want to visit this restaurant soon, so he came next to me, had a look at it and said: what is it? a pub's menu?
And I said jokingly: no! you just think about pubs! this is a restaurant's menu!
Than he started to rave about how they thinks they are better than everybody else but they are not and etc...
So I asked, who are they? I am talking about this Lebanese restaurant and there is NOT ONE alcoholic drink in this menu, so how can you think this is a pub and who you are talking about?
So he said that teetotal people think they are better just because they don't drink and if he was a Lebanese man, he would slapped me in the face! And than went on saying how I categorised him as a drunk, put him down and blahblahblah by saying he just thinks about pubs (it was supposed to be a joke)
So I said sorry again and he said I was not sorry because if I was sorry, I wouldn't have said such a thing in the first place.
So he left and I am here now angry, that after all the effort and patience (and believe me I needed lots of patience over the last few days), it all came down to it.
Wanker.

OP posts:
BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 19:48

He just came in to offer me a sandwich.
Fuck off.

OP posts:
BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 19:59

Fucking idiot

OP posts:
Maisie0 · 28/05/2014 20:05

Oh God. It sounds like he is bringing up the past for discussion in the now. It seems like he has bottled resentments, and did not react to what you said right now, right here. He's a bit passive aggressive. I think he should go for counselling to get rid of his bottled emotions.

BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 20:28

Was such an innocent comment, he took it so badly.
We had a full blown fight in front of Dd
He is so worked up he can't even listen to me and see that I was not accusing him, disrespecting him, just made a comment, tried to make a joke.
It is awful.
I don't want to spend my life walking in egg shells.
He did feel disrespected for real,when I sad he just thought about pubs but he forgot it quickly.
It was when I told hi about me feeling hurt by he saying he would slap me in the face if he was a Lebanese man that created all the problem. He sees it as just sating a fact, I see it as passive aggressive, I did not like it one bit and he won't understand why.

OP posts:
Maisie0 · 28/05/2014 20:38

And I said jokingly: no! you just think about pubs! this is a restaurant's menu!
Than he started to rave about how they thinks they are better than everybody else but they are not and etc...
So I asked, who are they? I am talking about this Lebanese restaurant and there is NOT ONE alcoholic drink in this menu, so how can you think this is a pub and who you are talking about?

You see, he triggered at this point. Instead of expressing his emotions, and why and so forth, he derailed and went onto "a story", and wrapped it onto his resentments.

Rather than feeling embarrassed at getting it wrong or admitting to it. He hid his embarrassment with a derailment of "they are better than". Then he associated the drinking thing and relating it back towards something between you two which may not have been resolved before. i.e. his drinking.

I don't know if because you apologised which allowed him to be "so" brave and say such things like this. Cos now, he is showing his resentments, and embed it in a story like that. Do you see it ? Before you mentioned that he never expresses himself directly, well, it seems that he is expressing himself in a "roundabout way". Like the above situation. Which I can tell catches you off guard, and it is indeed unfair, in that exact moment. That is why you put up a fight, than anything.

I see the situation as. You hurt him say on Monday. He suppresses it and won't stand up and say something there and then. Then on Wednesday, he releases his resentment in small doses cos he realises that it hurts.

You need to open this aspect of his personality for discussion. You mentioned that before you guys have had talks before, well, show him a mirror of himself, and make him realises. The next time that you guys have talks about the relationship, bring up this example of "delayed resentment response". Because the context of the menu situation was innocent enough, and he blew it away by loading it with something else.

BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 20:44

Thanks for reassuring me I wasn't being such a bitch.
I don't know how to make him realise his issues. When I try he thinks I am trying to blame him for everything and I think I am perfect.
Poor Dd. I just want to disappear right now.

OP posts:
BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 20:47

If I haven't stood up for myself saying that I was hurt by he saying he would slap me if he was a Lebanese man everything would be fine, but I could not hold it, it was too much. I don't want to be spoken to like this. I don't want a husband who says things like this.
But because things have been fine in the last few days I thought we would be able to have a conversation without fighting.
I feel like this is my fault, I should have be able to wait and pick the right time to talk.

OP posts:
BarbieCan · 28/05/2014 20:50

I hate him so much right now I wish he would drop dead.
Separation, divorce wouldn't be enough for me.
I don't want my daughter having a father like this, he is so ignorant and simple. He is so thick and stupid.
I should have gone when I was pregnant.

OP posts:
Maisie0 · 28/05/2014 20:57

To be honest. It really isn't my place to judge cos you did come here to ask for advice. I just hope now you can see the situation unfolding, as other bystanders are giving you a different perspective. I personally have been in that moment of "can't see the wood for the trees" too in my past relationships.

To be honest, both of you should not truly be negative towards one another. Being true to yourself is necessary. But there comes a time whereby you can see the goodness or the strength of what one another brings too.

I agree that he was out of line by saying that he should slap you, which is a way of hidden aggression. You should tell him that you feel hurt by this comment. Like today. There is a saying, "do not go to bed angry, stay up and fight". But really, it just means that, to get past all of this, you do need to address each situation each single time, and resolve and nip it in the bud. So it does not infest.

Why not have a quiet chat tonight and nip that one in the bud and see if he can apologise for his behaviour? Just say something like "you know, I was joking about the menu thing, and you took it to be an aggressive thing with the "slap me" comment. I did feel hurt by it. Even if it was a joke to you. It still hurt."

Express your emotions. Hopefully, if you do it often, he too can slowly express his emotions too, and then you have a good baseline to work with and rebuild your lives together in a more co-operative way. You also should not go to bed feeling hurtful either. Which I can tell is what is happening now judging your comments above.

Maisie0 · 28/05/2014 21:02

Is that the alter ego talking ? Cos you can indeed walk at any point in time if you want. You do realise this, right ? I would take a moment and sit on this right now and see if these kind of thoughts will pass or not. Other thoughts will come through with your emotions, and judge it by your own true core feelings. Why you chose him in the beginning, and if you do want a future together further and so forth.

BarbieCan · 29/05/2014 08:51

I really don't know. I really wish he was more intelligent. I am not a genius but dealing with a person with such a simplistic mind is very frustating. I have tons of examples from last night. Maybe I will come and rant later.
Bottom line is: I was happy with the ways things were gping but he was starting to get unhappy and didn't communicate so things blew up. He has apologised profusily, made promises and etc.
The question is: how much more can I take?

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