Not really sure who is wrong in my relationship. Can you help?

[BarbieCan]

I don't even know where to begin.

Bottom line is I am sure H is the problem and he is convinced it is me.

I think I am losing perspective.

There are so many small niggles it is difficult to even start writing about it all.
Maybe if you ask me few questions (like a mediator) I can answer them and than hopefully we can work out who is being unreasonable?

No, it's not always about entitlement. No one picked my socks up growing up. We were messy, in particular me. They will get picked up, but not necessarily in the time frame expected of me! I have improved for dh sake but I am still way off his standards. That's called compromise. It's been the biggest issue in our marriage. There needs to be improvement and acceptance on both sides but you can't expect someone to be just like you because somehow you're way is more 'right'.

If you meet and marry someone and you are totally sexually and emotionally compatible then you are very very lucky. The truth is that most of us have to compromise in some way. Your husband is probably compromising as well as you. You can choose to be unhappy, you can choose to be grumpy and look for the worst in people. Try being nice to him and jump through a few hoops for him and see what happens. Men are different. If I had to leave my husband alone at home for a week I would have given him a list of stuff to do as they will not intuitively look for jobs like women ( I would have been very careful how I presented him with the list though) . They are not us. Please try your best with him before you consider separating, as you have a child that is totally dependant on you for their well being. Try to think positive thoughts. There is lots to do to amuse yourself within a marriage without a DH being involved, after all they can't see inside our heads. You will have friends etc. I have been married for a long time and during that time I have been very much in love with my DH, bored with him and my marriage, hated the aggro with the children and wanted to run away, thought of leaving him, attracted to other men, thought he was bored with me, etc etc. it is life.

We had some marriage counselling (we've done a fair bit) and one thing we were asked to do was to have no expectations of each other for a month. It was write free-ing, but I also realised just how often I do have an expectation of someone else. I was also brought up in quite a critical household but really dealing with that attitude is the only way to be happy. You can leave your husband but you can't leave your kids, or your work (too frequently) and particularly yourself. You need to deal with that critical side I think.

I think the 'timeframe' part is v important when two people with different attitudes to cleaning/tidying live together.

It's not that he is expecting you to pick up his sock. It is that you do things as you go along and he likes to leave stuff and have one big blitz. Neither is wrong, but incredibly irritating for both of you.

tooyoungtodie is right. Especially about different feelings at different stages of marriage. And how much your dd would lose.

Incidentally, I know you're sorry about speaking badly of her father to her loudly enough for him to hear, with the intent that he SHOULD hear, but, really, that's far worse than anything you've complained about him doing.
Not good for her at all. And it'll take time to put that right. But I think you're clear-sighted enough to be able to work through this. Start with trying to show that you actually like him and see where that gets you.

he likes to leave stuff and have one big blitz.

Thymeout. That is EXACTLY it. I am a blitzer. I even find it hard to remove a cobweb unless I am going to wash the walls and paint the room! (I do force myself but it is hard!). I'd rather have 6 cobwebs but then spend a whole week and clean the light fittings, wash the skirtings, wash the door surround, polyfilla the cracks, repaint the walls, make some curtains, put up a rail and the curtains - and make the room look amazing. You can see why the cobwebs don't get done because all that is overwhelming!

This is one of the reasons why everyday maintenance is contentious - it's unrewarding. When you blitz a messy house, one big effort yields a sparkling result. But it doesn't stay that way: as soon as anyone does any living in the space, it's an imperfect home again ... if your idea of perfect is a home without human life.

I do recommend 'Wifework', as a PP suggested. It covers the vast amount of background work that's needed to run a home & family: not just everyday housework, but the whole lot. It's usually a revelation to men, and can also help a 'wife' to re-evaluate the way she expends her efforts.

No, it's not always about entitlement. No one picked my socks up growing up. We were messy, in particular me. They will get picked up, but not necessarily in the time frame expected of me! I have improved for dh sake but I am still way off his standards. That's called compromise. It's been the biggest issue in our marriage. There needs to be improvement and acceptance on both sides but you can't expect someone to be just like you because somehow you're way is more 'right'

Interesting and exactly wht happens here. The socks don't get picked up when I want, nor the other things get done when I think it should. So I get anxious, angry and frustrated. It has been getting better tbh, from both sides, but I couldn't cope with the holiday specially because I was working.

he likes to leave stuff and have one big blitz

Yep. The house is sparkling.
We came to an agreement that I will do the maintenance as I am in most of the time and myself and kids create most of the mess.
He will do a big cleaning once a month (more or less) we will see when is needed.

Thanks for all the input.
I caused all the trouble yesterday and I know I am not an easy person, I have many traumas from childhood and previous relationship.
He says I don't let the past go and don't leave in the present, etc.
I may also need to investigate further if I have control issues.

How do I know if I am a control freak?

Thanks for all the input.

Have you had any help with all the stuff in the past? See if you can get counselling as of course, it will come into your closest relationship with your spouse. I have heard that the book: Changes that heal, is really good.

Glad you have come to a compromise, sounds good. It's difficult in our house, as dh goes out to work and I am the 'house' wife, and yet I hate cleaning and tidying!! I will have a look at Wifework as maybe I am doing more than I (or dh) give myself credit for. And maybe it will give me ideas.

How do you respond when someone doesn't do what you want or expect? Do you have expectations of other people a lot? I have control freak friends and dh is a bit of one too, drives me bananas. The behaviours my control freak friends display would be: - overly obsessive about what they eat, lists of the contents of the freezer!, huge amounts of preparation for events (and then falling to pieces if they don't go quite according to plan), difficulty handling noise and 'chaos' (eg. kids running around the house), neat hair! I'm sure there's better lists. Control freaks bring out this rebellious side of me that just wants to be even more chaotic and 'go with the flow'. (You can see my marriage hasn't been easy!).

Thanks MerryMarigold

I will have a look on all the books suggested here.

I am not sure if I am a control freak or not, my xH certainly was and our separation was really traumatic, so sometimes I think I am just repeating his behaviour because I became a bit like him...I don't remember being like this before.

I basically really hate other people mess or untidiness even if this is minimal. I don't get angry or sad if I am in a good frame of mind and know I will have time to tide up and clean. However there were so many other things that I would rather be doing or need to do, that I resent little things like socks on the bedroom floor on Dh's side of the bed or a used glass on the coffee table. Also it got worse since I became a CM, I feel really pressured by having outside people coming in and out of my house everyday.

I get anxious/sad/angry/confused if I decide that H is watching too much TV (and the programmes that I don't like), playing to much iPad, eating stuff that I don't really like, the way he talks, his choices of words...
In my mind I compare him a lot with my xH or xBoyfriends, with other husbands and dads, etc...I know this is extremely unfair and I think this is exactly how my xH used to treat me.

Also we have a problem with our sex life of course, since I have this thick wall around me and feel really hard to connect and open up, let him in, put my guard down, being 100% intimate. It wasn't like this with previous men, but H has been 'punished' by my past troubles.
We are talking a lot still and looks like things will get better but he has being trying to have sex since Sat evening when we had a fight, and I am not ready yet whilst for him is all about having sex to make up for the fight. I don't function this way and he can not understand it.

Since this is his first serious relationship, he doesn't have the level of maturity that I need from a partner. I need some one more mature than me and since he isn't, i feel I struggle to respect him a little bit.

Regarding counselling, it is really tough at the moment. We don't have family near and H works shifts and can't really chose the days he will be off work or finish early. His shifts change every week. He already have to beg at work to have his day off on the days I have to go to my courses and sometimes I have to find alternative childcare for these days too, so I am afraid I can't spend a lot paying for counselling and babysitter at the moment.

I think in terms of your house, it sounds like it is probably already way above others' standards, even with a glass on the table. I think people like to see some mess when they pick their children up, it means the kids had fun and you didn't spend too much time clearing up but you were interacting with them. I would find it strange to walk into a CM house and see it spotless.

How far in advance does dh know his shifts? You could ask on MN if there is an online service. Or, maybe even working through a book. There is a good book called His needs Her needs (another one!), which sounds really appropriate for you two. If you could commit to 2 nights per week (which could change depending on shifts) to spend some time together, use this time to discuss one chapter at a time, and also to bring up things which are annoying.

It sounds like you have been quite damaged by previous relationships and perhaps it is affecting you now. I suggested the counselling more for yourself and not for your dh/ the marriage. He could take care of dd while you go for the counselling. I think if you feel more confident, secure, happy in yourself it could help a lot of the issues in your marriage. You may be able to get it free through the GP. I have depression and this comes out as huge irritation (like PMT) when it is not under control. I THINK (this is just guessing) that your past is making you depressed and it is coming out as irritation against things your dh can't control.

Not saying your dh doesn't need to show willingness to change though. He does need to try and change for you sake (I am preaching to myself here too!). If he speaks in a tone that is rude, or uses abusive words/ names then that has to change. If he persists in leaving the socks, even though he knows it upsets you, it needs to change (but let him off if he forgets sometimes!). Programmes - are these sexual or just too much sport? It sounds like you may also need the counselling to help you see what is 'acceptable' and what isn't. Socks on the floor is a completely different league from calling you a bitch (IF he ever has). There is selfish and there is abusive - perhaps you need help to identify which is which.

The sex. Yes, again it's compromise, I think. Sometimes you need to do it when you don't really want to (you probably will want to in the end) and he needs to not overly demand. It has been a huge issue in our marriage due to illness and 3 young kids, including twins. It is getting better. My dh has been extremely patient, but he did also use a lot of porn which was very hurtful to me. Both of that is over (me denying him all the time, and him using the porn). I just want to give you hope that it is possible to work through it and to grow together. It has taken us 10 years but we have been committed to it, partly due to our beliefs that we would not divorce even though there were times we said those words to each other.

Sounds like your h needs to grow up a bit and mature, and you need to let go of some of the past. These things take time and patience for both of you, but it is possible. I wish you well.

I think people like to see some mess when they pick their children up, it means the kids had fun and you didn't spend too much time clearing up but you were interacting with them. I would find it strange to walk into a CM house and see it spotless
But I don't mind my own mess. The kids mess is my mess, from my work and I know I will have to tide up and clean after them, I don't resent that. I resent having to tide up and clean after a grow man who in 'incapable' to put a glass back in the kitchen, wash his pots and pans, bin his beer cans. When the rubbish bin is overflowing and instead to change it, just throw more stuff in anyway...

How far in advance does dh know his shifts?
Every Friday he finds out what days and times he will work the following week. And he does a lot of night shifts. And his work is really inflexible, he already needs to beg asks for the time he needs off for me to go to my courses and he doesn't alway get it. Mind you I spent many years not doing anything I wanted because I couldn't rely on him to be there doing the childcare. Now I force him to get time off when I need but the work doesn't agree every time.

He hates reading and he never have read any book in his life. Or magazine. Or a newspaper.

I am also worried about seeing GP and talking about depression and this kind of stuff because I work in childcare and I am not sure how this will impact in my career (I am stopping CMinding soon but will still be in childcare). Sorry if I am wrong.
Also I think he could be depressed, not me. But he gets offended just me bringing this possibility up.

He does use a lot of swear words, not aimed at me (but happened of course) and this really annoys me because it sounds horrible and is just so chavvy. I hate it. I want to have a mature conversation with proper words and vocabulary. Not a lot of swear words. Also the things he says are so predictable. He uses a lot of 'common' phrases (sorry I don't know how to explain), like repeating what he has heard and just believing it and saying it as though as it is the most intelligent quote on earth.
I also don't like his accent and wished he spoke the "Queen's English" (mind you I am foreigner with a strong accent and he is native speaker).

The programmes are stuff like "hardcore paw", "storage hunters" with a lot of arguing and swearing. Really shit TV. But he also watches good programmes at another times so I know I am being U about it.
Yes, he had a phase of porn, didn't really affect me or my self esteem, it was not hurtful to me, even though I don't like the industry. But I think he realises now that I will not be attracted to a man who is happy watching porn and exploit women, so apparently it stopped.

The sex. Yes, again it's compromise, I think. Sometimes you need to do it when you don't really want to*

yes, I try to want it and I do it sometimes even if I am not looking forward to it, but I didn't want to do it to settle an argument and use sex as a make up tool iykwim. Also, I am not sure if we are just not compatible in bed or if I am frigid (his words). I could probably have this checked up. Will do if things improve though, as I don't want divorce at this point.

What I just really want from now on in for him to accept that spending money on online games on his iPad is stupid and he needs to stop it.
Also, he refuses to budget, he refuses to cut expenses. If there is plenty of food that is perfectly edible in the fridge but he doesn't fancy it, he would rather go to a restaurant or order a take away and let the food go to waste. I know in an ideal world, this is reasonable, but I just want to be careful with spending and be more frugal.
We don't own a car and I want one, he is totally against it and say we can't afford it but we could do it if he was willing to not spend money on his online games and we had a proper budget and were careful with spending. Apparently he doesn't understand it.
I have made many spreadsheets, he doesn't even look at it.
He keeps saying that he pays the rent and some bills, but totally forget about the bills I pay, the money I spend with food and Dd's activities (which are many because I organise them, he would happily let her watch TV her whole childhood).
I save a lot, obviously because he pays the rent and other bills, but he doesn't understand the dynamics of joint income.
I suggested a finances workshop, obviously he gets offended.
We had a lot of debt that I paid off with the money I managed to save through my working wages, and he forgets this.
Yet keeps now yapping he pays the rent.
How stupid is it?

He is just too immature, but will I have patience and wait for him to mature, if he ever will? And how can I respect and feel attracted to someone that is immature?

And how can I respect and feel attracted to someone that is immature?

I am wondering why you married him! With 1 marriage behind you, I think you would be a little more careful. You must have known how he speaks, what he watches, the fact he never reads.

None of it sounds great. But calling you frigid, is really horrible. I think you are confusing him with nagging about the bin whilst he is calling you frigid and being wasteful with money. You need some priorities, things you won't compromise on and then you need to see some improvement. Personally, I think emptying the bin is way down compared to refusing to look at a budget. He needs some ultimatums perhaps. You need to tell him things can't keep going as they are. I am impressed he can clean a house to spotless though! And yes, if he knows which evenings he is available, plan every Friday to sit down and talk.

I mean plan on Friday which will be days to talk (2 a week is fine). He can grow up with some help. But he needs to be willing.

Also it got worse since I became a CM, I feel really pressured by having outside people coming in and out of my house everyday. My comment about the house which you highlighted was responding to this comment. YOU NEED TO CHILL OUT ABOUT THE HOUSE.

No she doesn't need to chill out about the house, if she's a childminder she needs to have a tidy house. I don't think you should use your own laziness to try to convince the OP that housework is not as important as she believes.

OP - realistically - is he going to change? He sounds immature, entitled, totally disengaged from family life, selfish, lazy, financially irresponsible etc. If doesn't change, can you live with this long term? What is in this relationship for you?

I would seriously consider if you wouldn't have a happier, nicer, more tidy life without him.

I'm trying to help OP figure out her priorities. I don't think she is the type to have a tip of a house tbh. It sounds perfectly adequate for childminding.

I think the housework is way down compared to some other things, and she needs to work on one or two things rather than everything. If she decides to stay. It is very overwhelming for her and her dh to address it all at once.

I think it's a bit of a personal attack to call me lazy when you know nothing about me! I don't like maintenance-type housework, fair enough. I am currently cleaning the cooker hood and filters in between MNing.

It was only with regard to housework and to be fair you have been very open about it.

That's true, but I think my house would be adequate for childminding too (maybe I have low standards).

WOW toyoungtodie. I wish you were on here more often. That is brilliant advice. I just wish that some ops would have a bit self reflection and see that life isn't 100 percent amazing!

Merrygold: No, it's not always about entitlement. No one picked my socks up growing up. We were messy, in particular me. They will get picked up, but not necessarily in the time frame expected of me!

I totally agree, I have always been hopeless at housework but it is really not about believing that I am entitled. I don't have a partner and don't houseshare and I am still untidy.

I like the solution you reached OP about your husband doing a major cleaning once a month. Because otherwise he sounds nice and it sounds like the affection is still there, but it is really hard for a tidy person to have to live with an untidy person.

It doesn't sound like the two of you are all that compatible ? He seems to be in that avoidant mode already.

So, things about him you object to:
Not tidy enough
watches tv you don't approve of
spends time on ipad games and pays for them
doesn't read for pleasure
his vocabulary
his accent

err... Have I got forgotten anything? You don't seem to like him at all

*So, things about him you object to:
Not tidy enough
watches tv you don't approve of
spends time on ipad games and pays for them
doesn't read for pleasure
his vocabulary
his accent

err... Have I got forgotten anything? You don't seem to like him at all*

He complains a lot that he works too much and doesn't have enough time for the family then spend a lot of time off at the pub or glued to his iPad. And doesn't look for other job either.

There are a lot of other issues from the past. Getting drunk 5 nights a week, lending money and not chasing it back, paying beer to his 'friends' while we could't really afford it. There is a bit more. But the issue of late is the ones in this thread.

He seems to be in that avoidant mode already

He keeps insisting that he loves me still more than anything and he takes his vows seriously and doesn't want to separate....