'I am not responsible for how you feel'

[CowardlyNNChanger]

If I ever mention that I am upset about anything that DH has done or not done, or a way he has acted, this is the response I get. I understand it to the extent that we cannot control the actions of others but we can control how we respond to them. But it still upsets me, makes me feel as though I am overreacting and causing myself to be unhappy.

Does anyone else get this?

I don't think your counsellor is judging you - that is not their role.

It does sound very much as if your DH has ring fenced his responsibilities and your responsibilities and refuses to compromise or share your burden. That is not a working relationship.

With respect, you do not owe the consellor anything.
She is there for you, and you are there for you.

And, if it helps, you may never see her again, after the sessions are over.

So best to try not to feel embarassed, ashamed etc.
She wants the best for you, and you want the best for you. So win win in that regard.

I'm sure she's not judging, she's a lovely woman, but I hear myself talking and I think, god woman, grow a backbone, this could all be sorted out if you just spoke your mind, so it is hard to imagine that this is not what other people are thinking.

Right, far too long spent whinging for the time being baby is waking and dc1 is getting restless, we have walks to go on and pictures to paint etc... See, when I start to complain I have to remind myself I really do have the better side of the bargain with my lovely kids

Back later, thanks for listening, will post more when I have cleared my head.

At least you are going to counselling and on your own as well. Its a good idea to be able to talk both freely and openly in a safe environment.

Do you think you are at fault here or are you coming to the gradual realisation that it is not actually you but him who is the main contributor/cause of all the underlying relationship problems ie its not you, its him. I am not at all surprised to see that your counsellor did indeed use the words controlling and abusive; I thought same from what you have written.

Abusers as well often ramp up the power and control antes over the years so it is no real surprise either to see that his behaviour has indeed worsened. Many women who are outwardly confident no nonsense types are targeted by such men who basically want to knock said woman (these men hate women as well) whom they see as a possession/pretty domestic staff down many pegs.

What did you yourself learn about relationships when growing up?. Who taught you this as well (him?):-
"He doesn't make me coffee but he does offer, but I always say not to worry as I don't really want to ask anything of him. Which is my own issue, I should just ask for what I want but I don't feel I can".

Do you not ask because you know somehow that he is going to say no or has it just become easier to make the coffee yourself?.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What needs of yours are being met here?. That's something else for you to seriously think about.

What he is saying is that your feelings are not of any worth.
He is far too important to be bothered.
You even mentioning feelings is getting above yourself.
You can leave him or shut down completely as a human being with feelings and live like a shell.
Your call.
He will not change.

Abusers are not normally open to attending any counselling sessions; they feel they have done nothing wrong in the first place. I doubt very much your H thinks he is really acting badly here with regards to yourself and also do not think he will ever sit himself in front of a counsellor. He should never sit in front of yours - joint counselling is a complete no here in case you were wondering. He probably does not want you to leave also because he likes things very much as they are, he is getting what he wants from this.

What are his parents like BTW and what is his relationship like with them now?. Presumably one or both of them act in a very similar manner to their son.

I think, god woman, grow a backbone, this could all be sorted out if you just spoke your mind

I suspect not: it's not that simple. If it was, you wouldn't be posting here.

Standard assertiveness only works well with people who are bothered about your feelings, and interested in an equal relationship. Chances are you've tried speaking your mind and had unhelpful and unexpected results.

Have a look at the links at the top of this thread. Perhaps they will help

You sound like you have an amazing backbone OP. You are certainly shouldering a lot of responsibility. His happiness and needs (and wants), your children's happiness and needs. Where is his backbone in all that?

Look at what you wrote about him enjoying the children. He seems to only enjoy them on his terms when they are behaving in an appropriate manner that he deems fit to qualify as quality time.

Do you think about it in terms of your children eroding your quality time with them by having a tantrum or being a bit tired?

Jeez it really is all about him.

You didnt say whether you think he is a perfectionist or not, and what his own family set up was like. [You dont have to though if you dont want to]

It can take time to build a trusting relationship with a counsellor but you don't need to worry about being judged, I promise you she's heard it all before and more!

It's great that he's considering counselling himself, can't believe the GP prescribed ADs for him

I also think you could try saying you aren't responsible for how a few toys on the floor make him feel. He clearly has very rigid rules for living around tidiness, but this is HIS stuff and he doesn't need to make it your problem, why does he get to set the standard of the home? When there is a mismatch in standards like this both parties should make allowances, not just you.

Can I just say that we are responsible for the feelings of others in the sense that we, and we alone, are responsible for our behaviour.
If our behaviour makes someone else feel like shit, then we are responsible.
Of course we are - what kind of world would it be if everyone behaved as they pleased because they were not responsible for the consequences?

Saying that we can and should choose how do deal with our feelings is very different from suggesting that we somehow invented and caused them by ourselves and cannot nay, should not, expect anyone else to care.

And even this power of choice is eroded by abuse to the extent that it no longer functions.

"if when he is with them dc1 is fussing or bad tempered, he gets in a mood because it has not been quality time."

that sounds awful. really awful. imagine how dc will feel when older when he blames them for his bad day, or gets in a mood coz they been playing up a bit or got sick or ....

your poor dc.

poor you.

keep talking to the counsellor.
remember that people who are abusive/bullies aren't like that all the time. otherwise you would have left....they do the classic nice/nasty thing.

Looking at some key sentences from your posts (this will be long)...

His behavior towards, and opinion of, you

• He says he works hard every day, is it too much to ask to come home to a tidy house
• sulking or martyrdom over how hard he works
• if things have not been up to his standards or how he wants them he used to say, 'I don't know how you think you'll manage two if you can't even keep the house clean with one'. Therefore I can't complain about being kept up in the night, bfing, general tiredness.
• He often compliments me, tells me I look once or that I am doing a great job with the kids
• he says thanks for loads, every time I serve dinner or make him a cup of tea.
• he often tells me I am a great mum but then with criticise something I have done and I feel crap again.
• I don't do it he does it himself but then bangs around, swearing under his breath, sulking, moaning
• he went to the GP and got ADs and then talked about how he hated being on them but he would do it for us. So how can I complain if he is doing something proactive to help himself and us?
• My going to a counsellor has scared him though, I think he is worried I might leave and this might push him into action.

Your behavior towards, and opinion of, him

• I rarely pull him up on stuff now
• I only argue the important stuff
• I was quite proud of myself for what I had achieved and that it was just the first few days with a new baby and his dismissive attitude and the implication that I couldn't do anything right was upsetting.
• he does work hard and long hours so I am not sure whether I am just being lazy,
• I have been trying to please him and it has suddenly dawned on me that, much as I have tried, he is still not happy
• He's really not awful, just has high standards but I'm sure they have got higher over the years
• The counsellor used the words controlling and abuse in the last session and I found it a bit much

His behavior towards, and opinion of, the kids

• He totally loves the children, he gets a lot of pleasure from them, but he only sees them for half an hour or so in the evenings and he works quite a lot at weekends so doesn't get to spend as much time with them as he'd like.
• if when he is with them dc1 is fussing or bad tempered, he gets in a mood because it has not been quality time
• they love him to bits.

Other people’s perceptions of him/your relationship

• he can be lovely. He has friends and work colleagues who think highly of him, I seem to be the only person who finds him dismissive, which is why part of me thinks I am taking things to heart too much.
• This is why I won't tell anyone what he's like, or what I perceive him to be like. On the outside it's a bed of roses.

What do you get from this relationship that you wouldn't get without it?

He IS abusive and controlling. I know you don't like hearing that, but I think you know it and just don't want to admit it. All of your posts talk about how ridiculous you feel for not standing up for yourself, that alone tells you that you know he's being mean, you just won't push yourself to say "abusive" instead of mean.

He is emotionally abusive and controlling, like my ex. He treats the people he's supposed to love and care for the most, the worst. He is a different person to you and the kids than to strangers/friends. My ex didn't start his crap until we moved in together. It got worse and worse but I convinced myself that he hadn't been like that in the beginning, maybe it was me MAKING him act like that. Maybe if I just did better and didn't annoy him so much he wouldn't be mean and I'd get the lovely stuff I saw once in a while, more often.

If you were to LTB, how would your life change? You'd still be looking after the kids, you just wouldn't be so unhappy. You would be alone with the kids, but how much help is he really if he only sees them for 1/2 hour each day? As they grow they'll start making sure they do this, or don't do that to make sure Daddy isn't angry with them, he'll train them to keep him happy as well.

This all started (your thread) from him saying "I am not responsible for how you feel" yet you feel responsible for keeping him happy, or when the house is a "mess" and he's grumbling and angry... This isn't a healthy relationship and he refuses to change. He makes all the noise about it, but nothing changes. That's not your fault. He is an abusive, controlling arse and you and the kids deserve better.

and yes you are responsible for how you feel - and how you respond to the behaviours of your h.

so if you get upset over what he does - it Is entirely your decision. int his case I would say you in the right to get upset.

it is your choice how to respond.

and the consequences. you can give him a choice - pick up the toys yourself, be more relaxed about toys on floor etc. or don't. but then the long term consequence might be you choose not to be around him...

Have only scanned the thread so sorry if I'm repeating....
Has anyone suggested you reply 'well actually if you were more supportive I wouldn't feel this way - so yes you are responsible'?

Mine is he same. Said yesterday (after I had emptied the entire wash basket) "oh congratulations" (in a sarcastic voice.

I said I was really pleased to have managed it. His response was "a monkey could put a wash on".

Not with a five month old and an 18 month old that can't be left for more than two minutes while I do it. Never mind the other four children I have, or his other two at weekends xx

Surely the response to "a monkey could put a wash on" is "Then why haven't you?".

Ha yes I was going to! But he actually had

"but I hear myself talking and I think, god woman, grow a backbone, this could all be sorted out if you just spoke your mind, so it is hard to imagine that this is not what other people are thinking."
It isn't what I was thinking as I read your posts OP. I was thinking of how he's manipulated you and destroyed your confidence to the point that you walk on eggshells to try and please this unpleasable man. My jaw literally dropped at your second post, with him huffing and puffing and 'is it too much to ask to come home to a tidy house?' . I don't see you as a woman without a backbone, but as a woman who has been backed into a corner. It's all very well to beat yourself up think speaking your mind should sort it all out, but as an outsider I'm more focused on the fact that there shouldn't be anything to sort out, nor would there be if he wasn't such a bastard.

I'd be kneeing this dick in the balls and telling him I wasn't responsible for the pain he felt.

Is it too much to ask?

Wanker!