Old friends, babies and do I bother any more?

[theimposter]

I have never been one for living in friends pockets but I have no problems maintaining long relationships and have always had an active social life through my 20s. I may not see people regularly and don't like having 'BBF's' like some friends do but I would say I am consistent and super reliable and always make the effort when required. Lots of my long term friends aren't local anyway but we can always pick up where we left off and I am always there in a crisis.

What's upsetting me is one of my long term local friends has become increasingly distant since having her twins. I am not hugely into babies but she was really odd after the birth (in fact I found out after everyone else that they'd arrived on Facebook which upset me as I was supposedly her 'best friend') and I was hoping now they are a year + that she might have settled with having them and make herself a bit more available.

It's got to the point that she rarely replies to my messages despite knowing that I have had a tough time with DP recently (I nearly walked out) and the last time she did reply said she had a 2 month 'waiting time' for free weekends to meet up with us. It's not enticing me to keep trying.

I recently had a small op which was on my mind a lot and she didn't even know about it! She's not really being what I think of as a good friend but how much of this do I put down to being busy with kids and how much down to just moving apart due to different interests now and the fact I'm not round the corner any more? DP says it is the twins taking so much time but I am wondering what the point of being friends with someone is who can't even reply to a text or voicemail within a week and only seems to want to spend time with her mum or baby friends? I feel a bit ousted :-( She takes bugger all interest in anything I do and I have tried to take an interest in the kids and be supportive (we've offered to babysit etc and have gone round and cooked meals in the early days etc) but the kids aren't great at being handled by non family members (cry a lot) and despite me making an effort to show an interest in return she can actually be quite sneering about my personal passion (kid replacement!) and it upsets me.

Do I just let it go or try and get to the bottom of it? Been friends over 10 years...

If you've been friends a long time and don't want to let it go then you should probably leave her to it and revisit her in a few years. Some people have children, metaphorically tuck them under one arm and carry on as if nothing happened, socialising as normal. Others find the early days of child-rearing excessively time-consuming or they get so bound up 'doing it right' that they become borderline obsessive and disappear up their own arse. If she's got twins and they're on the clingy side she's probably in the latter camp.

Sneering doesn't sound nice. What is the kid replacement she sneers over.. cats?

Unfortunately I would say she is trying to let go. This is because I have got more than two children and although I might not be able to reply to a text straight away I would definitely do it later on in the day when I had a minute iyswim.

Also it is possible that in some way your actions or lack of them have upset her. Maybe you could try a quick text saying things seem a bit off and ask if you have done anything to contribute to that.

Good luck

Thanks; it is difficult as we are part of a larger group of friends also so we still have good contact with them. They all have young kids too but it is only her that is being quite off and not replying. My love that I find her very dismissive of is my horses and dogs which I know aren't for everyone but I also have older step children so it's not like I am totally un child friendly...

As someone with kids I have frequently found that friends who have babies absolutely fall into two camps. Those who manage to maintain friendships and those who don't.

The latter tend to replace the former friends who don't have kids with the new parent friends they make at nursery, mothers and toddlers, and school. Because it's much simpler - they can do coffee dates during the day, their kids can all play together, and they have this new 'interest' in common. These are the one who tend to lose a lot of their former self and become 'mummy' rather than 'Kate' or 'Cogito' or 'NotNew'.

I can understand when a baby is new then friendships can and do go on the backburner, it's a huge shift. But I do think it said that people can simply dispense with old and very good friends so easily. Some of them seem to think they can just pick up where they left off years later when the kids are older. Unfortunately, very often, it's too late. Friendships are like plants - you may not need to tend to them every but if you don't make some effort every now and again, it will die.

Some people are just like this after having children, I'm afraid... Though, having said that, just crawling/walking twins must be totally knackering.

As you're part of a wider friendship group you don't actually have to make any decisions about your relationship. Just stop making much effort and teach yourself not to expect anything from her. It may be that in a couple of years she starts emerging from the baby obsession and wants to pick up the friendship again.

An observation, largely after reading one too many threads in AIBU.... is that some people can be incredibly touchy about what others say in regard to their darling children. (The vitriol if anyone asks if a baby is 'good' has to be seen to be believed.) Be honest.. have you ever said anything even slightly askew about her twins? Ever made the cardinal error of saying 'I know what it's like because I was up all night with the dog'?...

She probably had a really hard time when the twins were born and didn't feel like you supported her when she needed you.

Thats also a problem though gwlondon, how do you know when you are supporting them enough, or too much, or too little?

I am in kind of the same boat as the OP, where most of my friends have children/babies now, and I dont. Now they all have this sort of 'mums club' where they all go out for lunch together, or soft play, or the park etc. Whereas I work 40 hour weeks, and I'm not free weekdays during the day to join in. The only time I'm free is after about 6pm, where its almost time for baby's bed, or baby's dad just in from work and getting his tea, and I know if that were me, I wouldnt want that time disturbed!

So I guess what I'm asking is how hard should you try really?? Without knowing if you are disturbing their family dynamic, or bothering them? When is the time to give up if you arent getting anywhere?

I couldn't keep up with many of my old friendships after I had children. I simply didn't have the time or energy to handle children, a career, a marriage and all the household that babies create.

I could just about manage a cup of tea for an hour mid afternoon with local friends with children, but I would have struggled to hold a conversation after 6pm!

I don't think you can judge her, as you simply don't know how she is feeling. IMO, a good friend would just let it go, and you may find that she is up to more later on.

I think the two month waiting list thing sounds very arrogant/rude. Unless she was joking / just being honest.
I’d give her some space and back off and see what happens.
Having twins might explain her being unavailable, but it’s not an excuse to be off with you IMO/E.

I'm struck by this:

"the last time she did reply said she had a 2 month 'waiting time' for free weekends to meet up with us"

So did you take her up on it? She said she wants to see you.

How about some sympathy for how knackered/overscheduled she must be feeling?

I've been in those positions where because of work/family/health nonsense I really did not have time to meet up with people unless I set something up a month or so in advance. It happens. Some acquaintances/friends did get annoyed with me for not returning voice mails soon enough and to be honest it just made me avoid them. ("Hey matilda, are you sure you don't have time to hang out this weekend? When does your shift end on Sunday? Do you really have to get to bed so early?" GNARGH!)

Erm, Matilda - Yes, OP went and helped out and texts her regularly to take an interest??

Friendship is two way.

Yes, I'm sure they're well-meaning and friendly texts. Yetunfair as this may seemwhen someone's exhausted a request for a coffee date can feel like yet another demand.

So I guess I'm saying maybe just resign yourself to the fact that she's not going to be there for you like she used to. Things will change in a few years.

Yep, and she should not be shocked if OP has made new friends by then.

Good luck OP :-)

I'd be mildly unimpressed if I had gone and cooked for a friend with twins and she didn't even bother to reply to texts and so on. Maybe OP is more forgiving.

But the point is, OP, that although you value friendships and want to keep them, with this friend you don't seem to be missing much. Whether she's mummied-out or not interested, either way you can't have a relationship with someone who isn't having a relationship back. You'd do better elsewhere.

a request for a coffee date can feel like yet another demand

... has really has really irritated me. You’re trying to see (and support) your mate, not sign her up to a new gas supplier!

I know loads of people who have managed to stay in touch and have basic manners when they’ve had their hands very full and in less than ideal circumstances! I think a polite ‘gimme a break’ text (ie: “Sorry – totally nackered. We’ll catch up ASAP I hope – hope you’re well” etc would have been nice/decent.

I'm really surprised there isn't a bit more sympathy for the mother here. She may well be at the end of her tether - turning one doesn't magically mean the babies sleep, or sleep at the same time, or don't scream when anyone except her looks after them - it really can be relentless, and entering a fog is not unusual. I wonder what the texts you send say, OP, that she doesn't reply to - are they chatty ones, or do you always include a request to meet up? And the meetings you want, are they at times that fit in with her commitments?
None of this may seem very fair, and you are entitled to think it's too much work, but it may not be personal at all.
Relationships between partners take a back seat for a time after having a baby; it's not surprising that socialising with friends can end up down the list.

At almost 2 my second born is finally accepting having his dad put him to bed - so I am having more nights out (yippee!) and fortunately my friends are still here for me.

Sorry I irritated you. The discussion has hit a nerve for me too, remembering a time when I was so exhausted and depleted but I had a couple of friends who just wouldn't/couldn't understand.

I would text something like, "Sorry, looking after [relative] all weekend, then have work, going out of town next week. Would love to get together on [date some three weeks ahead]. How's your job?" And they'd respond all like, "Sure you don't have time sooner? My husband is doing my head in!" What?

But you're right in a way, we did have different ideas on what friendship was-- I was thinking a good friend would give me the space I needed for a bit, whereas they were thinking a good friend would make time, even five minutes. Our friendship did survive by the way!

OP, hope your friendship survives too.

No I’m sorry. My sister turned in to a complete martyr when she had her third, was too tired etc to do anything but always found time to see a lot of wallies she’d met at a baby circle. I found it totally baffling as I’d always really looked forward to seeing my childless friends after having DS. I had PND and felt very guilty about it – the ‘baby group’ friends I’d made were very clingy and twee so seeing my sister abandon her mates was very frustrating.

Each to their own!

Dont call your animals "kid substitutes" How insulting to propose that pet ownership is the same as parenting.

I lost touch with my "mad cat lady friend" after I had children because if I dared mention my son had a cold, she took over the conversation to talk at length about her cat having a sniffle. If I mentioned having my baby immunized she would go on and on about how cats needed immunizations too, and how upset her poor cats were, etc. I think I know more about snotty cat noses and how hard it is to measure a cats temperature, then she knows about babies, for sure!

Maybe it was the only way she could try to empathise? Maybe she had a load of cats because she couldn't have/didn't want babies?

'Mad cat lady' indeed - lovely!

I'd rather hear about my friend's dog than about her baby... and vice versa! Having babies doesn't mean we need to become baby-bores. Not everyone is interested in babies and ask about them to be polite. Sorry, but it's true.

I used to force myself to go on nights out with mates and listen for hours to talk that I used to enjoy, all about office politics basically. I wouldn't talk about the baby (and as we were together night and day I didn't have much else to tell them about)to avoid being a bore. So instead I'd just go home and cry my eyes out.
Don't feel that way at all now, but no-one at the time would have had a clue how hard things were.

She has two demanding babies. Until you are in that situation you will never understand how incredibly draining it is.

Maintaining friendships with childfree friends can be really hard after having children as they simply don't get how hard it can be get time away from children, especially when they're small. It is so much easier to just socialise with them in tow but then, understandably, many childfree people don't want to spend time with other people's children.

My childfree friend came for dinner recently but made it clear that she wanted us to go out on our own. That hacked me off as all that told me was that she simply didn't understand how much I was struggling with non-sleeping DD and it opened up a gulf between us that I think I will find hard to bridge.

It's a fact of life that a new baby is very very important to the mother, central to her life in fact, so expecting her not to talk at all about the baby is bloody ridiculous and pretty selfish really. I want to hear everything that's new in my friend's lives - jobs, partners etc. If they're not equally willing to listen to me talk (a reasonable amount) about my children then they can fuck off.