Old friends, babies and do I bother any more?

[theimposter]

I have never been one for living in friends pockets but I have no problems maintaining long relationships and have always had an active social life through my 20s. I may not see people regularly and don't like having 'BBF's' like some friends do but I would say I am consistent and super reliable and always make the effort when required. Lots of my long term friends aren't local anyway but we can always pick up where we left off and I am always there in a crisis.

What's upsetting me is one of my long term local friends has become increasingly distant since having her twins. I am not hugely into babies but she was really odd after the birth (in fact I found out after everyone else that they'd arrived on Facebook which upset me as I was supposedly her 'best friend') and I was hoping now they are a year + that she might have settled with having them and make herself a bit more available.

It's got to the point that she rarely replies to my messages despite knowing that I have had a tough time with DP recently (I nearly walked out) and the last time she did reply said she had a 2 month 'waiting time' for free weekends to meet up with us. It's not enticing me to keep trying.

I recently had a small op which was on my mind a lot and she didn't even know about it! She's not really being what I think of as a good friend but how much of this do I put down to being busy with kids and how much down to just moving apart due to different interests now and the fact I'm not round the corner any more? DP says it is the twins taking so much time but I am wondering what the point of being friends with someone is who can't even reply to a text or voicemail within a week and only seems to want to spend time with her mum or baby friends? I feel a bit ousted :-( She takes bugger all interest in anything I do and I have tried to take an interest in the kids and be supportive (we've offered to babysit etc and have gone round and cooked meals in the early days etc) but the kids aren't great at being handled by non family members (cry a lot) and despite me making an effort to show an interest in return she can actually be quite sneering about my personal passion (kid replacement!) and it upsets me.

Do I just let it go or try and get to the bottom of it? Been friends over 10 years...

Ivehearditall now - it really depends on how you talk. It is not empathizing when you hog the conversation and use anything your friend say about her child as an "in" to go on and on and on about your animals.

Friend did not want children. But from my perspective, it comes up in conversation. If I mention I am tired because child is sick, I did not get a word in edge-ways because her cat had a cold.

My friend had a lot of things, cats, horses, mercedes cabriolet, and when she and her boyfriend broke up (because he decided he wanted kids after all) I got the full run down of the "custody battle" of the cats.

My best friend dumped me like a hot coal when she had her first. I didn't realise it for ages - we were all really understanding. She had a ton of family support, somebody babysitting every single day (and when she went back to work, her Mum did daily childminding) so whilst I did wonder how she still couldn't respond to my texts when she was bored on the train, or when she was going out to lunch with her colleages, everyone said "oh, she has a baby now, you can't expect anything"

It took YEARS before I realised that she just didn't care enough. She stopped being interested in anyone who didn't have kids. She has three now (and still works, and her Mum still minds them) and I have tried, i honestly have. For seven years now. I've texted asking for times it would be ok to ring, I've resigned myself to being the one to initiate contact every single time.....but it does upset me. Friendship goes two ways, but she just became completely self-absorbed.

She has time for wine evenings with the other mums but not time to return my texts??

I am pregnant now, and I cynically wonder if I'm suddenly going to become more interesting to her now. I struggled to get through to her to tell her, and she only got back to me after several days after I desperately resorted to texting "BIG NEWS I CAN'T TELL OVER THE PHONE". When I told her, she was suddenly all about me.

But its kinda too little, too late.

Tbh OP people tell you more through their actions than their words. It sounds like you should distance yourself from her. It's clear she can't be bothered. Make some fun new friends. In my opinion having kids is no excuse to just forget about your friends. Leave her to it. You sound very nice.

I have twins and I can tell you now it is extremely hard work!

I would of lost a lot of friends if they hadn't of insisted coming over as the thought of getting myself ready tidy up then get babies ready was a nightmare.

I also would avoid people without any kids as I felt with my brood I would be a burden so like to go out with friends who are also running around lujw headless chickens after there kids.

I would never go for a meal or anything like that as it was a nightmare with getting buggies in door and because I was breastfeeding I would spend thw whole time feeding.

you say the babies cry a lot .. that answers you iwn question, she probably doesn't have any time at all.

What sarahquilt says.

It's probably not intentional. The first year or two with twins must be full on. I struggled with 'just' DS who at two, still isn't a great sleeper. I have no family support and it's been completely overwhelming.

The 'I'm busy for two months' comment is insensitive and I would be miffed. She's May not be fully booked with new and exciting people but staggers social engagements to cope. I know I did.

FWIW I have three good friends, all childless, all live 150+ miles away which I've know 12-25 years. Two have been fab and i see them regularly. They come to me for low key social stuff and are always willing to take my lead. It makes a big difference and I'm eternally grateful they have been so accommodating.

OP I went through this with a friend that had a baby. She's completely lost the ability to talk about anything but her child. Lunch or dinner with her just becomes a long list of things that her child can do and feels. It's incredibly boring. I'm letting go for a while. I'll see her every once in a while but she makes it very clear she doesn't have that much time for me. People change you know? You sound like a brilliant friend, if I were you I'd just back off slowly and let her come back when she's over how amazing her offspring are.

Thanks to all who have replied for some different perspectives. To those who have said animals are not a child substitute that isn't what I meant- it was a tongue in cheek comment - I got the barrage of 'When are you guys going to join in' when they were all simultaneously pregnant and DP and I were/are not in a place to even consider this road at the moment. As such I spend time with my older step kids (they don't live with us full time) and my personal interest lies in my animals for now as it also gives me a social life through people I meet up with doing stuff with them since moving a short way away from my home town which I otherwise wouldn't have as I work for myself. I wouldn't expect anyone to think animals are more important than kids but they are something that gives me a lot of joy and my other friends with babies still manage to ask how we got on at a competition, 'like' the occasional picture on Facebook or show concern if one has the vet out or whatever! Regardless of the animal situation they also find time to congratulate or commiserate work and general life things like anniversaries.

I understand having kids (especially 2) is tough and I don't 'demand' time from this friend; when I call and get voicemail I just leave a short message saying something along the lines of hope you are well, just calling for a catch up and call me back when it's convenient. When I say the kids cry I mean they are fine with family and people they know well but as someone who is not great with knowing what to do with babies I find some other friends babies easier to be around as they don't mind interaction so much from new people.

The 2 month 'book it in' thing riled me a bit; but on the other hand if they are busy I can understand. I just wasn't sure whether to take it as she can't really be bothered or as a genuine thing and it left me feeling a bit like I'm so far down the list I may as well not bother.

I'm not very confrontational and would be happy to talk to her in a nice way but that's the problem; how can you talk to someone when a) you can't get any time one to one on the rare occasions you do see them and b) if they don't seem to want to answer messages. It's not something I'd like to address on text or Facebook.

Who knows, maybe I have said something to upset her but I have no clue what- she has always joked that I am the non baby one so I can't see that she would be that uptight as she knows it's not my 'thing'. Maybe I just need to focus on other friends who are more in line with our lives at the moment. Difficult...

So, just to recap. Your friend has twins who aren't great at being handled by other people and you can't understand why she's preoccupied? Really? Honestly I think you are underestimating how much hard work it is having twins (judging on the experiences of a close friend).

Maybe she's busy and tired and stressed. If you are her 'best friend' (a term that I think anyone out of their teens is too old to use in the way you have) can you not understand that SHE probably hoped to be more settled and if she's not it's far harder for her than you?

I'm sorry you are having a tough time and it IS hard when this happens but you are taking it so personally and I do wonder if you have given much thought to your friend's feelings and hopes. Replying to texts can be exhausting. And if I'm honest you sound a bit too much like you're sort of adding things up and deciding you've not got enough.

Are you really her friend? Is she really yours? I'm not convinced on either side. You sound exhausting and needy. Sorry. If I had problems with my DH I wouldn't dream of being annoyed with my friend who has young twins for not being there for me if she couldn't be.

Appletini at no point have I implied that I am expecting her to drop everything on my behalf and believe me I am far from a needy friend. I'm actually pretty laid back and as I said in my original post that I have plenty of friends who I see rarely but there is always an understanding of pick up where you left off. My issue is that things feel off and I don't know if I'm reading into it too much.

She has a strong network of daily help from family with the kids and also childminders.

I was just asking for opinions as to what others would do. Simple as that. I'm not annoyed with her just slightly sad and not sure what to do. As some posters have said they would rather be left totally alone and not bothered by friends at all and others who have appreciated the attempts at contact even if they didn't feel able to take it up until the kids were older.

Anyhow thanks for your input...

Actually, I agree with Appletini. You can have no idea what it is like to have twins. Your friend isn't "a bit busy" with her life, she is run completely ragged. She has no time or energy for herself, her husband, her other family commitments. As a result you are, naturally, a lot further down her priority list. There will come a time when she does have more time and energy on her hands. It's up to you if you want to hang around for that or not really.

If you hang on in there she will likely reemerge when the twins are around 3. That's the age where children usually sleep a bit better so mum is less knackered, preschool starts thus freeing up a little time, and it becomes more feasible to ask someone else to do the slightly less hard work for you for a few hours. It doesn't have to be all or nothing does it, friendships can wax and wane and still survive.

You seem to think she is making a choice to not see you. Bet she'd love to have a full nights sleep and bugger off out for a few hours of sitting. Reality is that babies needs screaming trumps all else in the early years.

at "she did reply said she had a 2 month 'waiting time' for free weekends to meet up with us,"

That's an incredibly rude thing to text, and she is trying to put you in your place.

I think you should have text back with "Oh OK, let me know when you have time for us, you know we would love to see you" then left it with her.

She's got twins - incredibly hard work, I know. But she has got the winning card in Busyness Top Trumps here and she knows it. It doesn't matter what ever happens to you - you will never be as busy as her when she had her twins, nothing will ever be as hard, and she won't let you forget it.

I am TBH getting tired of certain of my friends who do competitive busy-ness. Too busy to phone, too busy to meet up, too busy to send birthday cards . . . One of them texted about being so busy organising "all my children." She has TWO. I nearly texted back asking if she had had another baby - you don't say "all" with less than three do you? Oddly enough the one with the really hectic life and the high-flying job is the one who always finds time and who never makes me feel like I am inconveniencing her by wanting to spend time with her. Funny that, isn't it?

Anyway . . . you can't win with some people. You need to graciously take her at her word and forget her. (And if she did get in touch about meeting up I'd be soooo tempted to say "oh we came to the top of your long, long waiting list of fans did we?" But then I am a cow. )

Have to say much of what Balloon says resonates with me. I get that those with babies and young children can be pretty shattered and flat out. But it is hurtful to see that they can spend time with their new parent friends but not bother at all with the friends they have known for years and years who don't have kids. Of course I understand they can't necessarily come out of an evening for some time and the whole babysitting thing. But some of them seem incapable of even being able to find 20 seconds once every few weeks to even send a quick text of hello or reply to one they've been sent. I don't expect them to reply to a text immediately. But within a day or two would be nice. Even just checking in would do!

As I said earlier, not all mums go like this, but a surprising number do and it is hurtful to be 'dumped' like that. Yes, we know priorities change but some mums seem able to manage so, with those who don't, you tend to think that, actually, they can't be arsed or they no longer need you and they weren't the friends you thought they were.

As with Balloon I know someone who works all over the UK and often has to fly abroad with work. She is the busiest person I know and works ridiculous hours. But she still manages to reply or send a text every now and again and makes time to catch up, even if it's just a coffee for half an hour once a month. Because, you know, we're friends and we value each other.

I think what you said here:
Who knows, maybe I have said something to upset her but I have no clue what- she has always joked that I am the non baby one so I can't see that she would be that uptight as she knows it's not my 'thing'
is significant.

I know who are "non-baby" and for whom "babies are not their thing" and what that tends to translate to is one of two things: a lack of patience/understanding for what parenthood involves and a disinterest in friends' children or an outright rudeness when it comes to parents along the lines of "I hope you don't become frumpy and boring when you're a mother" and "God parents are so full of themselves" etc etc.

I'm not saying you're like that, but if you consider her "uptight" for taking offence at you being rude or inconsiderate then I would think you may have said or done something to offend her and she is distancing herself. It's all very well to joke about parenthood when you're both childfree but if a so-called friend shows a lack of understanding, especially when you're struggling with two babies, it can be a real slap in the face.

Sorry that should say "I know people

Well this is it; I'm really not being demanding- once every 3 or 4 weeks I will call and leave a voicemail when there is inevitably no answer. I don't hound her! We always go to them; I don't ask her to go out with me; if we see them it's always at their home with the twins involved too. I know she can't do evenings out and that is not what I'm asking for.

Just the very odd text in response to my voicemails would be nice just to keep the friendship trundling along in the background. Anyway I shall, I think, leave it for now and stop worrying about it and if she wants to meet up she knows where I am and as some of you have said maybe in a few years she'll be a bit more able to see non mum friends.

CailinDana I said she is NOT uptight so I don't think I've said anything to offend. She was pretty non kid orientated before anyway so I don't think it's that. I haven't had enough time with her to have said anything and like I said we don't chat on text or Facebook so it must just be the super busyness and clearly I shouldn't take it personally!

One of my closest friends has twins - they're not especially easy babies, and she has no childcare/family support on hand either. However, she's much better than my childfree friends at keeping in touch and really looks forward to our get-togethers.

I agree with other posters, sounds like your friend can't really be arsed at the moment. Sorry.

Ugh, I hate baby bore mothers like this. Yes, you're busy. Aren't we all? Not responding to texts/emails is incredibly rude and tells you where you are in her priority list. There's not much you can do but leave it, but of course your friendship will be affected.

(As an aside, as someone who had her child late it's been amusing to see that the biggest baby bores were also the least willing to be flexible when I was in the baby stage and their dcs were older/more independent. Some people are just not very good at thinking of people other than themselves.)

As a mum to a young baby my experience is the opposite of what the op describes. I have regularly contacted friends who I thought were good/close friends only to be snubbed since dd arrived.

Having a baby can be very isolating and busy, especially with twins!!! My days are consumed and u have to plan in advance to be able to have "me" time without the baby in tow so it is perceivable that she can't see yiu fir two months, maybe that's when she can. Next get childcare.

Have you actually spoken to her about how you feel?

No I haven't spoken to her as any communication I do get back is sporadic anyway (and it's not the sort of thing I would launch into without a lead up) and when we have met up it's always in a group with other friends and all the kids around so face to face is nigh on impossible.

Hmm

I've got 3 under 8 including a 3 week old and I can find time for my friends - if I want to

However I have to say there's one "friend" in trying to distance from and in using the kids as a bit if an excuse as I am too chicken to actually ditch her

Not saying that is the case with you btw. but also she sounds a bit of a twat with the "3 month waiting list" to see her (god how self important) and you saying she's sneery to you so I'd be wondering if I even wanted a mate like that tbh