"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

hmmm fuzzy that's the main problem actually - your husband more than your parents. You need his support. Does he not realise how hard it is for you?

I don't think he realises exactly what they are like yet? Obviously he sees what they are doing but I don't think he can understand?

He seems to think it's all sorted now because he rang her and she made the right noises :-/ where as I know she's just said yes yes because she knows once we're there we've got no other option......he always like to try and see the best in people?

It's difficult I've lived with this for 32 years, he's only had a few years, How do you make someone with normal parents understand the toxic crazyness? I think he thinks he's sorting it out and making it better, easier?

My mother just kept going on about it's my brothers birthday and he was coming anyway for his special celebration like we were intruding and how I would find it difficult because I wasn't speaking to him?! I know exactly how it's going to play out.....oh and the circus is attending the funeral they must be loving it right now sat there with their wine feeding off the drama and what will they do......:-/

Meerka thank you for your reply. I really can't decide what to do. I have felt such a feeling of freedom these last few days. And I know that it won't be long during the next get together before the passive aggressive followed by aggressive behaviour starts. There is so much history and things that are unresolved. Is it okay to add this to the list?

Dh is very supportive. He will go with whatever I decide but feels that we should be civil and just stand firm if they start treating us badly. I just feel like I need to make clear up front things have to change. But I dont think they are capable of that. I want to tell them we (me dh and DS) come as a unit. If you have a problem with one of us you've got a problem with all of us.

My dh didnt get it, so I sat him bang in the middle and let him get the full show. I had talked to him for years but he didnt get it as its not normal. He hasnt experaniced it himself, its like talking about an abstract concept for him.

He was there when the dog bite my sister, I got the dog outside my father came in screaming and shouting at my crying sister and my dh watched it all in horror. We took sister home, helps, talked to her and he listened to my sister talk about all the other times my dad had shouted at her, kicked her out of the house and how he put the dog before his own child.

And my dh got it

He went back packed our bags and told my dad that when he had kids he would never treat them as bad as he did his dd that night and anyone who did, was scum and should never have any childern. And he drove us home at 1am.

He earned my respect that night.

I would be temped to go along with dh and say I told you so but only if I was able to cope with the fallout. If your not up to it stand your ground with dh and stay where you want to. You have the right to ask him to stay home with the dogs and you just go to support your Father then go home again.

You make the plans and you chose what is best to do, dh should support you.

Kingswood that is a great place to start. You are a family unit, its all or none.

If you feel you need to tell them about past events that you are upset about then tell them as this gives them the chance to put it right, to say sorry, to discuess it and get closure and find away forward. Open honest communication. Google conflict resolution there might be a standard script to help get across how you feel in an assertive way.

I would give them a chance to change but I would accept they might not and you will have to enforce your boundries everytime.

To the txt I would reply " not untill we have discuessed your behaviour the othernight and we make a few ground rules. We come as a family, if you disrespect one you disrespect all of us. I expect you to say sorry to dh for a start. You were a guest in our home and its rude to insult the host. If thid happens again we will ask you to leave everytime". Or something a lot more tactful but said the same thing? Then depending on the reply "i wish to raise this event with you as I feel....."

I think sometimes you just need to be very clear with your words and repeat, repeat untill the other person hears what you are saying. I know this is hard when you are worried about the other persons reaction, outcome or fallout when the other person does not act or respond in the normal way.

My Mum told my 5yo ds that she was a witch and she believes she is truly, how can you have a normal conversation with someone like that? She is not mentaly ill she just thinks she can see ghosts and perdict the future. She tells me im always so angry, no just when im around you! Then my Father tells him this family is different and antisocial and its ok to be rude. So they were trying to jutify there behaviour and make it normal to a five year old. My son was confused and worried and we had to explain they were teaseing and that it wasnt very nice and we dont do that.

I had not foreseen to put 'dont tell gdc you are a witch' on my list of things not to do when we visit. I had asked them not to talk about exbro, not to be racist, not to have the bbc news on or anything over u rating on tv and not to leave the dog and children together unsupervised.

sorry I cant sleep and I just cant understand why someone would say that to a child. Why would you want to upset your own grandchild that you dont see much of by telling them your a witch? Its just crazy.

Its just the little things that get me as I just dont understand what they are thinking!

We are not going back there again and im not even going to bother telling them. They have called the house phone three times and dh moblie twice. I love caller ID, I just havent answered and I dont even feel bad about it now.

Hey AnAirOnHope. I hope you have managed to fall asleep but rest assured that is a very messed up thing for a grandparent or in fact anyone to say.
My latest fight was with mum who is very OCD about cleaning and disturbingly superstitious. She keeps telling me to clean dinner spoons straight away as her mil told get very mad luck not to. I explained in my house I didn't want superstitions. As they dictated my childhood and feels to be just another limb to her OCD behaviour. She told me I should respect my grandmother. I said it isn't a question of respect I just don't believe in superstitions. I think they are silly and I want to break free of them. So when she saw my dinner spoons not immediately washed she started screaming and crying and called my house a council flat and said I had no dignity. She ranted and raved both before and after I asked her to leave as she was upsetting DS who was just clinging on to me.

Bloody hell, Kingswood that's just nutty! Mental illness is one thing, but that's not something you should have to deal with!

Not washing the spoons immediately is not acceptable but screaming and ranting and crying is? There is a very different code of behaviour here to the one most people live by!

I do think you'll have to distance yoruself a bit, kingswood. Emotionally and perhaps a bit physically. Getting so upset over not washing the spoons is, in this society, simply not reasonable (I can sort of see the not-respecting-the-grandmother thing if you come from a certain mindset, but it's just mistaken!) Screaming and ranting is simply not acceptable.

Also thinking about it, airofhope is right. I do think you are owed an apology. If you get one - great. If you don't, it sounds like you'll need to keep your distance because she thinks that sort of behaviour is ok :/

The history is hard to deal with. So much backed up frustration and discomfort. Maybe talking about it, and keeping talking about to your husband til the sting is taken out of it. You said he came from a pretty odd family too, maybe he will also need to talk about his family!

fuzzy is air's idea possible? to let him go and -see- the unpleasantness? or is it that subtle oppressive sort where it's all in the tone of voice and only an insider would get it?

it is incredibly difficult when your partner comes from a normal family. They just do not have the terms of reference. it's worth tossing him a copy of Toxic Families. Beyond that you'll just have to hope he sees your unhappiness and how badly it affects you.

The alternative is simply saying No to your husband, becuase you know how much it will cost you. To arrange a hotel or drive there and back in a day and to let him moan. Because it would be the right thing for you.

mampam im sorry, did not see your post ... Just to wish you the best of luck becuase it really sounds like a nightmare. Just because you agreed to it in the first place, doesnt mean you have to lie on the bed. You didn't know how mucky the sheets were going to be.

Honestly, I would seriously consider two children in the same room and renting elsewhere. NOTHING is worth an awful atmosphere in your own home. Nothing.

Better happiness than space (and I'm a person who likes my space, specially me own space!)

I'm having a bad week. Someone up thread commented about my brother and ringing SS. Sadly there isn't any point yet. He is (deliberatley being vague) not in double figures yet age wise and so doesn't question any decisions my mother makes. If you asked him if he was happy at home he would say yes. He hasn't reached the age yet where he will want privacy, where he will want independence, it'll be in the next 5 years that it will slowly dawn on him that he should be able to shut his bedroom door. That masturbation isn't "worrying behaviour", that having his mother tell him off whenever he is in the bath or shower and so vulnerable isn't normal. As he gets older it will get worse and I will be able to step in but ATM I would just sound vindictive.

I am angry. Angry that I was expected to play happy families. Angry that she shows no remorse. I'm not angry about the documents though. Both of them are just vile and show how twisted she is. In one of them she references the time I was raped and describes how I was provocative, in dress and language, degraded myself and then panicked when my actions led to consequences I didn't like. In fact her whole theme for several pages was my provocative behavior. And yet I was the girl that didn't have a boyfriend all the way through school, that was bullied for being "frigid". I wore knee length skirts because I wanted to hide away my figure. It's all just bollocks and as a mother, I can't begin to comprehend how you could possibly write such things about your own daughter and then send that writing to the solicitor of the violent ex your daughter had fled into refuge from.

I feel no love towards her at all. Infact I've moved from indifference to hatred and contempt. Which may not be healthy but is probably natural considering.

I agree that it wouldn't be helpful to get a diagnosis and tbh it's all so subtle with her unless you can manage to draw her out via an argument, that I think she would manage to come out of a diagnosis as perfectly normal. She isn't though, and I know it. No one else in my family can see it, I'm just hoping that when my brother starts saying the same things I said about her, that they will listen. I do feel very angry about that tbh- that I'm down as the fruit loop in the family because I kept making up lies about my mother. Not one person believed me. They all turned on me when I left home, when I went into refuge. It makes me furious that they think I lied, that I'm mentally unstable. Just another thing I need to learn to accept I suppose.

mampam I don't know whether to be pleased you remember me or horrified that it's stuck in your memory!

Shadows in that case go nc with all of them and use that angre as energy to build a safe, secure loving life for yourself and your children. Do not be shy to call the police if she hurasses you.

Had a bit of a crappy day today. Finished a large project early only for the client to whinge about formatting (their job) and supposed errors, which aren't errors but they're obviously using software to check it rather than paying a proofer. Pisses me off.

Then went to see DM as she's going to water DS's sunflower while we're away and she just got right on my nerves. Went for coffee and took kids to the park and they behaved (especially DS) REALLY badly most of the time, seemed to spend the whole time shouting/telling off. They're often like this when we see her, I don't know if it's excitement or what, but I feel like she's thinking, God she's a shit mum. She told me once I was "a very shouty mother" in sad, disapproving tones. And, the same as ever, she has NO interest in me or my life. She's quite animated about long-winded stories about HER or things she's read or watched (usually that she knows I don't follow or like) but if I mention anything about me it's all umm, uhuh, mmm and she changes the subject back to herself.

Also, she was bitching about her Dsis (who is JUST like her, but hse hates her) and it was like she was describing herself, hilarious really. All about she's so negative (check) such a drama queen (check) has fallen out with her DIL and son (check) plays her children off against each other (check). It was quite funny at one point as she was saying how apparently my aunt has fallen out with one of my cousins and she was surprised the other son (my cousin) was still in contact after my aunt behaving so atrociously by calling her DIL a bad wife and mother and a dirty slattern. Which is basically exactly what DM did to me and DH, but when aunt does it she thinks it's outrageous and she's surprised the DIL hasn't cut her off for good! And then wonders why we moved out and there's an atmosphere!!

Mostly it's funny but today it just made me feel sad and frustrated.
DC in bed and I should be sorting the last bits out before we go away tomorrow (yay!) but I can't be arsed. I've had a big lump of chocolate and watching TV.
Period about to start, that's probably why I feel so weepy and down.

meerka I think air's suggestion might be the only way I don't want to be guilt tripped into anything by him once we have kids because he thinks he's helping? Although I can't tell which way it will go I suspect now we've had the big meltdown it will be very subtle again, it tends to ebb and flow between subtle and very obvious behaviours :-/

I think I need to be more clear about my boundaries with him and them, I've been mentally practicing the phrases air suggested particularly the "i am sorry you feel that way" and "that doesn't work for me/us"

I think I can get away with not talking to anyone the day of the funeral due to "grief" I am also planning on using the dogs as an excuse to go out for long walks

I am most worried about my brother and having to travel to the funeral with him obviously I can be an adult but he's shown on more than one occasion that he will discuss/ throw horrendously personal things at me out of spite.

The most horrendous was at my fathers wedding where he publicly outed my abortion, I was 19 I'd told his girlfriend in confidence as she was currently going through a pregnancy scare......he outed me in front of a room full of family viciously knowing exactly what he was doing :-(

I am mentally preparing for the worst it can't be as bad as I imagine can it?

......ha don't answer that one!

Really regretting contacting them, I am not sure why I've done this to myself, annoyed I've created this situation. :-/

Fuzzy, make sure you always have the means to get away from them if they play to type.

I remember thinking similar when DS had his accident, and all of them back in my life etc, stamping all around it, only thinking of themselves. It was like an insane, hideous circus at one point, I very nearly despaired.

It's over now, done, a couple of horrible weeks, and i'm back to usual, they're all back in their places.

You can get through this. We're with you! That's gotta help! :) xx

fuzzy oh god your brother sounds utterly vile. It does sound like once this funeral is over, you might need to go NC.

Your husband might be trying to help but actually he's being destructive. If nothing else, can't he understand that people don't go NC for small reasons? I do think that letting this family near any children of yours would be a really bad idea - and you need to tell your husband that. In your shoes I'd be saying that loudly, clearly and often from now on when the subject comes up. Or you can think aloud about kids to yourself and add the part about NC with them .. every time. He'll get the message in time, with repetition. he might not understand why but he'll see that you mean it. Lay the groundwork now.

I do think that you should go in a separate car from your brother. Funerals are had times and extra stress like him is just an extra serious strain. Practise stating your wishes now and being firm. Do it soon so the arrangements can be made. if they ignore your requirement ... well then, a good reason to keep further away.

Also do you bottle up your upset around the whole subject of them? if you do, it might help if you allow your husband to see it so that he can see it's real. Not only words. When you don't see the reality, you don't get it. Like with chemo you only really get it when you've had it, other people saying 'the nausea was bad' means nothing really til they've seen people vomitting endlessly.

Shadows Sorry you are having a bad week. I was wondering if you think your mother will treat your DB the same as she treated you? I only say this as I have 2 brothers, 1 older, 1 much younger. The older one had his fair share of toxicity from her but was always the golden child. The younger one was mollycoddled as he was the youngest. They both received/witnessed the toxic behaviour but were certainly not on the receiving end of it to the extent that I was.

I remember you I guess as I was posting on here at the same time as you were and what your mother was doing was truly shocking. Parents should want to protect their children and grandchildren but your mother was just unbelievable.

As for her making out that you are mentally unstable to the rest of your family, I know it's hard but try to let it go. Those who are truly close to you and know you well will know the truth. I think this sort of behaviour is a classic narc trait. They rally people around them as if to turn them against you with lies, I think it justifies their behaviour the more people that are on 'their' side and gives them a sense of satisfaction in alienating you.
Shortly after DD1 was born I fell out with my mother. I was living with her and could bare it no more. We then moved in with the IL's (now ex IL's). I can remember being in the room with my MIL whilst she was on the phone to my mother who was trying to convince her that I had PND and was "gone in the head". When my MIL said that I seemed ok to her my mother proceeded to try and convince her that I was putting on an act. Thankfully my MIL just recognised that she was nuts.

Fuzzy You know these people, you know how they will act, what they will do and say to try and reel you back in. You can pre-empt their behaviour and use it to your advantage. As Hissy says "you can get through this". Good luck.

Meerka you are right, nothing is worse than an atmosphere in your own home but right now I don't really classify this as my 'home'. A home would imply that it's ours, our sanctuary to relax and have privacy.

Things actually came to a head yesterday. DH flipped. He received a text from his father whilst at work telling him that MIL had had her op the day before. We had guessed as much but why would they not tell us? Anyway, DH called him and it ended up in a nearly hour long shouting session (DH has sore throat to prove it ) where DH got a lot of things off his chest.
He said that FIL really cannot understand our problem with him , he doesn't understand why he can't come and go as he pleases in and out of our extension and as per usual his only retaliation was to start on me.
His qualms with me are:
I don't make him cups of tea...when DH pointed out that I am pregnant, suffering with HG, don't drink or make tea anymore as the smell makes me feel sick his reply was to say it wasn't very courteous of me.

I haven't said hello to him for 2 months.....a total lie but I do keep talking to him to a minimum as I can't fucking stand him Does that mean he hasn't said hello to me either for 2 months?

I turn on my heels and walk off when one of our neighbours comes around......DH just replied "that's because she can't fucking stand him". God knows when I've even last seen that neighbour as I've been holed up in this house since the start of the Easter holidays which was the beginning of April with being sick and feeling like shit due to the HG.

DH feels he's got it off his chest now but I feel like I want to have my say. DH doesn't want me to and wants me to make a point of saying hello to FIL. I don't want to do that as I feel that FIL will think DH has given me a 'talking' to which he has not. DH just feels that it will pain FIL to have to speak to me.

DH seems to think that once the extension is done FIL won't have any reason to come around anymore and we can grow the hedges, put up big fences and keep ourselves to ourselves. He seems to think that the problem will go away but I don't share his optimism. I know that people like this will just find another way to exercise their controlling behaviour.

During the argument DH had also asked FIL if he would act or had acted like this when they had guests in our house (before we moved in they rented it out as a holiday home)? His reply was "No but you're not guests are you?".

I know this will never end and DH wants me to look at it differently. He says he hates his parents but just see's it as using them to get stuff out of them (he is an only child). I think he's just waiting for them to drop dead so he will inherit everything.......sounds great in theory but they are only in their 50's so I think we've got many more years of this shit to go.
DH has also told me to look at them as sad and pathetic, they are I know but sometimes its just bloody hard.

Forgot to add that we are going on holiday tomorrow for a whole week A week of bliss and I will enjoy every second away from this house

mampam your husband needs to look at the effect all this shit is having on you. You can't just switch it off!

I'm struggling a bit with oldest son.

Left with feelign pretty bad about myself quite often which normally I can handle but atm physically things are pretty difficult with insomnia and the 12 week old waking a lot at night. I keep being critical of my older son and being disappointed in him.

Stood back and tried to work out why, he's only 6 fgs. He does have an attention problem tht I'm considering taking him to the doctor for. But this criticalness is seriously not constructive, it's damaging.

When I thought about it, I'm passing on the sense of never-quite-good-enough. That I'm doing things in a poor-quality way and can never reach a good standard.

I need to step back, try to assess rationally where he can do better and encourage that and to stop being so critical. Actually, to get more on his level. But it makes me feel acutely bad, it's hard to handle the feelings and it's easy to slip into the "not good enough" mode which I'm passing on.

He's a lovely, kind, good hearted little boy.

God, I wish i could just shed the unhelpful thigns from the past like a caterpillar

Meerka is there any way you could have a one or two days during the school holidays to do something nice with just you and ds?

Recognising that your behaviour towards ds is not what you want it to be is a great step in the right direction. Don't beat yourself up about it, it's how you were brought up, it's what you know. You have recognised that you need to change this and I'm sure you will do so accordingly.

We've all been there, I know I have with my eldest DD. I find it really hard to show her any physical affection (not that a near on 15 year old wants hugs or kisses from their mum) but I try my best which is more than my mother ever did with me.

And yes, DH has got to realise that I cannot just switch off from it all. He may have got things off his chest but I have things I would also like to get off mine. The more I think about it the angrier I get. One of the things I am particularly angry about is that FIL was pissed off with me because I went out one day (to spend the morning at work for the first time in months) and he thinks I should have left our house unlocked on the off chance that he wanted to go in and work on the extension......so infuriating.

hmmm yes I will ask MIL if she can take him a day. or even half-day. And Sunshine and I can go out somewhere together. Good idea!