"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

after 2 hyperemesis pregs (HG is hormone-caused) all I can say is that hormones are responsible for way way more than we suspect or like to think.

If they can affect your sense of taste and completely alter how some things taste, your sense of smell intensely, your moods up to a point etc ... hormonal disorders from thyroid or pituitary conditions can affect people's personalities and moods too ... well, I reckon the little bastards govern much more than most of us realise!

Sorry it's me again! I do have a question if you can help. She still hasn't called (she calls twice a week or weekly) but I don't want to give her a ring. BUT on Wednesday it's 3 years since my dad died. I'm an atheist and don't dwell on fairy tales (don't mean to offend anyone), she is religious but CoE if you get my drift. My dad was an atheist (I guess) and his funeral was more religious than the passing of the last pope, he'd have hated it! So I never visit his grave or go to church - ever. And it's just dawned on me that this phone silence is due to her knowing/assuming that I'll call this week so she can play the widow again. But me and my fiancé are having a 3 day break, coming back on Wednesday evening.

I'm notoriously forgetful. She'll have the hump that we didn't bother visiting while we both had time off.

Any ideas you lovely people??! X

If you do not want to call her then do not call her. Was that your mother's idea mainly to give her H such a religious type send off when he was not religious at all?. With narcissists its all about image and artifice and what they want.

Given what you have written about your mother as well, it is actually now worth it to cut her out altogether. BTW I know what you mean about the condescending phone voice; my MIL has one of these such voices as well and she is also a ghastly creature.

I would certainly urge you to keep posting here. Your mother has certainly done an awful lot of emotional harm to you.

Oh, and do consider changing your user name as well to something more positive like Strength-head. You are certainly not as you describe!.

Thanks Attila, yeah it was all down to her, full on hymns and everything! Myself, bf and my children (and brothers and family!) are all atheists so we sat there a bit bemused not knowing what to do! I think it was for show, so she could be seen as doing the 'right' thing. She is religious as in going to church to do the flowers and gossiping about who didn't do them last week or who wore what, that kind of religious. We were never christened so I have no idea where this stems from. Her and my father went to a funeral a few years back, my mum was in full on gossip mode about how bad (the funeral, not the sadness!) was and how she was stuck behind a piller..I was laughing and said 'bet you were fed up you didn't get a good view' to which my dad laughed and winked! Such a snob.

I will get the 'oh golden boy (my bro) called for an hour' when we do next talk. I think I have cut myself off emotionally. When I moved over here she was on her own, both me and my partner (his idea!!) tried to persuade her to move over (it's flat, cycle tracks, great place for kids and OAPs) and she wanted to. 3 years on and I know she just enjoyed the attention of us asking her. She has no intention to move despite the noises she makes. Which pleases me greatly now.

And please dont worry about my name, my partner and me tease each other a lot but only as in opposites if that makes sense? He calls me fatty too (I'm a 10!) it's for fun because I know I'm not. We've both been through the mill in our childhoods (him far worse) and we're both each other's rock. I would never call anyone stupid and mean it, even myself. X

I am glad to read that you are not yourself unhappy about your username. I think your own childhood for what its worth was just as ghastly as I have seen from others on here. Many people when first posting do downplay significantly their own experiences precisely because they've been taught by their parents the erroneous belief that they have no voice and are of no consequence.

I would read up on narcissistic personality disorder re your mother and see how much that fits in with your own prior knowledge. Her behaviour in terms of lack of any filter and the references to a golden child do make me think of NPD; this is precisely how such disordered people act. Its all show and artifice for such people; image is everything and they can be casually dishonest with it to boot. Many adult children of such people often carry around FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) with them.

It is NOT your fault your mother is as she is; her own birth family did that to her.

Your late Dad seemed to act as the buffer in your family of origin. What is your opinion of their relationship?.

I'd say don't call her, SH (don't like calling you stupid, even if you don' mind...seems so rude iyswim :))
i think if you call her it's back to normal service, so it's up to you, but I'd leave it. She can call you if she wants to talk.
Does anyone else have that, the non contact from them? What I mean is my DM is often hand wringing about how lonely she is and how "it's hard when you don't speak to another soul from one week to the next" and "has to have the TV on as it's a voice at least", blah blah. But never rings me. When I say why don't you ring me then says "but you're busy". Never rings DB, not even on his birthday.
I have other things swirling around my head about her atm, but need to go out with the kids, will post later.

hi strongheart (if you don't mind I'll call you that, hard to type out Stupidhead! even if strongheart is pretty crappy ;) )

suggest you don't ring her.

It -will- give her the hump but part of growing away from her, gaining your own independence, is learning to ride out these humps and troughs.

Consider it practise in the Emotional Detachment stakes!

Could any of you give me your views on my post in Aibu, called, aibu to throw away this card.

Just need to know from you all what you would do if me or what you would do if post from your parents was witholded from you

I see you decided to give it him a few days later.

He'll see that it's already been opened. Suggest you say you got a card from them, and ask him if he wishes to see it or not. It's fair to warn him it's highly manipulative. I think it's reasonable to ask him if he wants to read it or not, though.

Maybe decide what you'll do in future if you get more letters like this - is he ok with you opening and reading them first and going with your judgement as to if he should look at it or not?

Wanders into the stately home, looking a bit uncertain.

Hello all.

Came to the Stately Home via pumpkinsweetie's AIBU thread. (Think you were definitely right to open the card but also right to decide to give your DH the option to look - thinking of you for when you do tell him about it).

Guess I'm trying to figure out, well, if I belong here. My parents certainly wouldn't agree I did. In many ways they are supportive, and if I tried to explain to anyone outside of this thread, I think why I don't feel happy about them as my parents, I feel sure I would just get a confused look.

But, I know two things. Firstly, when I was a young person living with them I spent so much of my time feeling insufficient and depressed. Secondly, when I am around them now, all those feelings return, and the Me that I am proud of, the Me that I have built up with the help of the love of a wonderful, kind man, wilts into a corner, and I find myself being this angry, sad teenager all over again. In their words, they say they want to see me. But in the way that they act I can't help but feel that the daughter they love isn't actually the real me. I'm not even sure they know who I really am.

So, dear Stately Homes thread, may I please come sit in the porch for a while? I'm still processing everything I feel about my parents, and I am a long way from making any kind of affirmative action - either in trying to repair things or in trying to stop contact. But it would be good to have this thread to turn to.

Hoping this finds you all well, and in the company of the families you have chosen, and who love you for yourselves.

Hello cautious. You're very welcome no need to sit in the porch, come and take a comfy arm chair.

Feeling like you're reverting back to a childhood role and that they do not grasp the real you is hard.

of course ...the porch will protect you from rain, the door's open if the wind blows and there's in tubs around =)

Take all the time you need to work out what's really going on. If you feel inadequate and frustrated and sad and angry when around them, presumably for several years now, there has to be a reason for it. Working out why is another matter!

If you feel like a teen - do they treat you as a full adult with your own mind and opinions, or not?

If they don't, sometimes there can be something pretty nasty at work - sometimes subtly, ask goodtobetter! or sometimes it's simply that they still treat you as a child and the pattern of years can push you back into old ways of behaving. Is there anything that chimes within at either of these two options, or is it somethign else?

Goodnight for now :)

Thankyou Dont.

It's hard to explain all of the little things (perhaps "unintentional microaggressions" might be the best term?) that they do that cause pain, and why they hurt, but I do know it doesn't feel /right/. Travelling to visit them I can actually feel myself turning in on myself and putting my walls up. When I'm there I feel like I'm suffocating.

But of course part of me keeps saying it must be my problem, that I'm not trying hard enough, etc. But then I see other people's relationships with their parents and realise that it /isn't/ functional.

Does anyone else on here have familiarity with the experience of going away from a visit thinking "never, ever again" -- and then two or three weeks later you get this chatty, friendly email or a phone call, and it goes well, and you think that maybe it wasn't so bad, that it would be unkind not to visit again at the next family occasion etc... and then it's just as bad as the last time?

cautiousvisitor I am also a newbie here, I have posted under the cutting out family members thread about my mother.

attila thanks for your support on the other thread, it's a relief to talk to people who understand.

After my mothers latest visit on Friday, I can't help feeling we've reached the end of the road. Lately, every interaction with her makes me feel depressed or low. The final straw was to involve my lovely dds with her emotional games - 'I'm going away and you might not see me again'. She also accused my oldest dd of hanging up the phone on her. Dd said there seemed to be a fault on the line and she couldn't hear. So of course BT are not to blame....oh no, dd was hanging up on her.

But what do I do now? Write to her to explain why I don't want to see her? What do I do if she makes another unannounced visit? I still worry that she's so alone. Suppose she has an accident or fall at home and no-one knows?

Thanks Meerka.

Do they treat me like an adult... hmm. Less so when I'm visiting them, perhaps a bit more when they're visiting me in the home I share with my DH. I think they know I have opinions of my own (always have, which is part of the problem) but they're often dismissive of them which is where the being treated like a child or an irrational teenager comes in.

It doesn't help that I have quite low confidence about talking to them (or indeed anyone who's not in my field) about the work that I do, and to keep the peace try to hold my tongue as much as possible. Lately I've started trying to reference my work and my daily tasks more to remind them that I am a "proper" adult etc.

I think that a lot of what they do is quite unconscious on their part. They both exist in very negative patterns of behaviour with relation to each other and to the world around them. The problem is that on my own I can't fix all of the negative ways that the family interacts, but I don't feel that I have the emotional strength to try to explain to them how they could improve things, or why they need to do so at all.

I used to feel exactly the same about 'never again' and then get sucked in again cautious.

Dancer I don't know your back story but involving your DDs is not acceptable. I'm sure Atilla will be along soon to advise.

Just a bit of history - my father died when I was 4 leaving my mother to bring me up alone. I have a much older (half) sister from my mothers first marriage. I had quite a sad, lonely childhood - numerous changes of school, no proper friends until my mid teens, no extended family (my mother had fallen out with them all).

We lived in this dreary house which was cluttered and dirty. My mother kept promising we would move house and have a fresh start. We spent most weekends trawling estate agents and viewing houses. Each time I got my hopes up but it never happened. I was quite naughty as a child, my mother wasn't good with discipline and there were no proper boundaries. Every so often she would blow up and rant and rave at me for hours. Sometimes she would lock me outside or make me get out the car and leave me in the street.

When I was a young teen she told me I had 'no redeeming features'. I knew I wasn't good enough for her, she constantly compared me to other much better behaved children.

My sisters relationship with her wasn't good either. I was often witness to their shouting matches and was caught in the middle. My mother used to tell me what to say to her, as if we were ganging up against her. I used to stay at my sisters flat sometimes when I was about 8 or 9 and she was in her early twenties. I loved it. Somehow my sister knew how to be a parent to a child, I remember thinking she was stricter than my mum but in a good way. The worst part was Sunday evening when my mother came to collect me. There was usually a row or at least an atmosphere. I couldn't wait to get back to school on Monday to escape.

But however bad things were, I remember totally adoring my mother. It broke my heart when she said such nasty things to me. Afterwards I would cry with relief.

Now as an adult, my main 'flaw' in her eyes is that I'm selfish and don't care about her and such and such does x, y and z for their mothers.

cautious given my weird family, not actually had the visit, suffocate then smoothing-it-over-in-your-memory thing myself but I can easily see how it'd happen. Suffocating - ugh. You need air to breathe and space to be yourself!

It might help if you call them on the microaggressions. Something like 'actually, no, that's not the case' or "that sounded like a putdown. Please don't do that". If they call you oversensitive, then calmly saying something like "no, I just don't like it and haven't for a long time. Please stop it". And if they carry on, simply get up and say goodbye. From what you say they won't cut you off. It sounds like they might be bewildered and a bit put out, but also that they'll get over it. if you keep repeating the behaviour, they'll get the message pretty quick.

By the way, if you still feel like this around them as an adult, it's quite likely that unconsciously somehow they haven't let you go. They still want you to be a teen and somehow controlled by them. Otherwise you'd have been able to spread yoru wings around them and be more yourself. So establishing your adultness and independence may take a bit of a (subtle) fight but one it's well worth taking on!

dancer Maybe x y and z had mothers who gave them happy childhoods.

Gratitude is a coat to be worn lightly, or it becomes a straightjacket (who was it who said that, more elegantly?). Guilt tripping you is selfish and not at all constructive. Guilt tripping on top of things like locking you out and blowing up for hours (god, know how that feels) and 'you have no redeeming features' ... well, she's getting back what she sowed, no wonder you don't want to be around her. Being accused of being selfish hurts, justified or not, but Im certain that if you step back and look at the accusation it -isn't- justified, certainly not from her. It's a stick to beat you with.

It may be that you 'adored' her becuase actually your relationship was very shaky and well, you didn't dare admit more complex and difficult feelings to yourself, you depended on her after all and she doesnt at all sound the sort of mother to make you feel secure enough to be able to face difficult feelings! (though I may be reading way too much into it too).

How to cut the contact ...hmm. you want full NC or you want very LC? Does she have any neighbours / friends who can keep half an eye on her? I guess your older sister is NC with her (are you in contact with her?). If there is no one else at all to look after her, then very LC may be the way to go, checking on her once a month or something, you gonig there not her coming to you.

other than that, a letter does seem a good idea. Stating either that you want no further contact (and then not letting her in if she calls) or that if you are thinking of LC that you don't want her to come to your house and that you prefer much more distance between you. She will do all the guilt tripping under the sun, so be prepared for that and plan how to handle it emotionally.

"attila thanks for your support on the other thread, it's a relief to talk to people who understand.

After my mothers latest visit on Friday, I can't help feeling we've reached the end of the road. Lately, every interaction with her makes me feel depressed or low. The final straw was to involve my lovely dds with her emotional games - 'I'm going away and you might not see me again'. She also accused my oldest dd of hanging up the phone on her. Dd said there seemed to be a fault on the line and she couldn't hear. So of course BT are not to blame....oh no, dd was hanging up on her.

But what do I do now? Write to her to explain why I don't want to see her? What do I do if she makes another unannounced visit? I still worry that she's so alone. Suppose she has an accident or fall at home and no-one knows?

Dancergirl

You're very welcome.

You are still very much in FOG with regards to your mother and you have bent over backwards to accommodate her over the years.

I think in your case and from what you have written elsewhere as well, going no contact with her is the way forward for you now particularly as she (unsurprisingly) is bringing your children into her emotional game playing as well.

Your mother is not on her own; your sister maintains a form of a relationship with her. She has made herself isolated also through her own choice; IIRC she only visits you and won't have anyone into her own house for instance. If Mother was to make an unannounced visit you do not have to let her in.

Would you want to write her such a letter?. This excerpt may prove helpful to you:-

www.lightshouse.org/writing-no-contact-letters.html#axzz385OR7ERz

Thank you for your support.

I haven't discussed this at length with my dh yet although I think he will think I am not doing the right thing by doing NC. He's of the mindset that she is still my mother.

She has caused enough problems between me and dh over the years, I don't want any more. She very nearly cost us our marriage by trying to persuade me not to marry him.

Anyway, I digress. Dh and I have been married for a very happy 16 years so far but we do sometimes differ in our opinion about my mother. Dh was doing some legal work for her a while ago which meant they had more contact than I did. I suspect she will still phone him at work to bad-mouth me. Dh does stick up for of course, but he is quite mild-mannered and will sit and listen to her rubbish.

Hi Dancergirl,

re your comment:-

"I haven't discussed this at length with my dh yet although I think he will think I am not doing the right thing by doing NC. He's of the mindset that she is still my mother".

By the same token though she is not his mother and has not also as a result has to put up with her crap and conditioning for as long as you have. Its your relationship, you have every right to limit contact as much as you please given that your mother's behaviour is also now affecting your children. That is reason enough to pull the plug on any future relationship. Toxic parents like your mother simply do not make for being any sort of healthy grandparent model.

Does your DH come from an emotionally healthy family of origin?. That may well be the thinking behind his actual reasoning here; he may thinks that it cannot be the case that your family of origin is really that dysfunctional and that family are family. But it is and your family of origin is truly dysfunctional; in your case you are escaping the Mob Family.

If you have not already started to read the resources at the start of this thread, I would suggest you do so as well.

I stumbled across this thread for the first time yesterday. I'm currently on page 7 of this current one and I'm sitting agog nodding in understanding as I can relate to so much of it.
I will post properly soon. I've been through counselling to help me understand why my DM behaved the way she did (as much one can understand why another chooses to do what they do) but I feel stuck again due to a whole new situation.
What a supportive place

Hello snake. Welcome.