"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

You know why it'll be ok?

Because you can handle whatever comes your way.

You can and will make the NC decision if you need to, and now he knows it.

Yeah, you communicated loud and clear that you do matter, regardless of his opinion.

That attitude is like a great big anti-twat shield, it'll protect you and serve you well in the future.

It will be ok. Because you are ok. Well done! Xx

Thanks Hissy :)

Hi,haven't posted here before because I've been trying to put things right in as far as I am able. I am NC with my father and have been for years,I'm perfectly happy with that decision.

But my relationship with my mother is tough.She has huge mental health problems which is why I have done my best to build bridges. I understand that she is ill in some way or another but I am coming to the end of my tether.After spending a day with her last week I know for sure that she is a massive bully and needs to dominate me,while this is part of her illness I am so unhappy. Where the fuck do you draw the line? I don't want to go NC but I am not going to be made unhappy deliberately for any longer.
I have tried to speak to her about it in the past but she went through a phase of just screaming at me- as in just screaming not using words. That kind of out of control toddler has been a feature of my life. Bleugh!

She knows that things have changed with me and that I am not playing her games. It's all been very secret behaviour too which makes it soooo much worse.

Thank you to anyone who has read this- I feel a bit better for getting this off my chest! I think that I have changed so much in the past year that I can see how she keeps me down. I have terrible confidence issues - who wouldn't? I really got the fuzzy end of the lollypop when it comes to parents,but I have a family and friends and a life of my own now. I just want to stop feeling this huge resentment and go back to feeling happy.

I'm fuming at the moment. Fed up of my horrible mother. My sister has recently got a job. She's only young. The job is low paid and she's just starting out. My horrible mum who is always spending all her own wage within the first week or so of getting paid is now I feel taking advantage of my sister. She's like a vulture. If you mention anything mum says well she wants to she offers but I know my mum spends her days making people feel sorry for her. As she always has no money but not because she doesn't have enough to cover bills etc but she has plenty left over and spends that on say meals out, clothes etc. my sister has only just got paid her first wage and she's already been out weds, Thursday, Friday of this week and had some new shoes bought for her , god knows what else. This week alone she's probably spent £100 on my mum. I think it's taking advantage of my sister who still lives at home and only 20 . When my other sister mentioned that maybe encourage her to save, driving lesson , save for her future , moving out etc my mum said " she'll never be able to afford to move out on her salary" what a strange thing to say? It's like she won't let go and let her move on with her life. She's starting out. She's encouraging her spending it all. The one thing me and my sister would hate is for her to not have a life and live with her mum forever, but mum seems happy with this. She's already mentioned paying board to her too. Wonder what that amount will be as well as extras! I hate that mum is holding her back and only thinking of herself. She tries to control everything my sister does. She speaks for her, she tells her what she can ant can't do , who she can and can't see, who to be friends with. (Yes you guessed it, she can't be friends with us if mum says so.) and treats her like a toddler and a doormat. It's hard to stand by and watch this happen to your loved one. The way she controls is by lies and manipulations to make others look bad to my sister so then my sister thinks badly of us. What c an I do?

Guggenheim- sounds like you've been extremely tolerant and understanding of your mum. I just wonder whether she uses her mental illness as an excuse for certain behaviour towards you? Says it's her mental illness so she doesn't necessarily have to take responsibility. Does she have support with her mental health problems? You have to look after your mental health too and if that means reducing contact or putting in boundaries with your mum re: what you or will not tolerate then so be it.

Bedtime1- your mum sounds extremely manipulative. It must be so difficult to see her treating your dsis like that. Does your dsis accept her behaviour?

I have recently sent my mum a letter (7sides of A4)! In it I was extremely honest about how her selfish behaviour and constant disregard for her childrens feelings and needs has made me feel. Highlighted certain things she's done over the years and impact they have had on me. Initially, I felt really guilty at sending it and fact I may have made her upset but realised that's because I've always been made to feel her feelings/needs come first at detriment of my own. Have always trod carefully around her, not wanting to upset her but not any more! Honesty is the way forward!

My dsis also sent some rather blunt texts.

Both of us are yet to get a response! Wonder if we will?!

Borisbeckerslover,

I would have got you to write the letter but not send it as it can give the receiver further ammo to lay further into you.

You may well get a diatribe of bitterness, absolute denial, character assassination of yourself and hate back in reply to your honest letter. I would think that this person will reply or use some other means (perhaps now having to visit the hospital due to a previously unknown illness or health scare) to punish you for such a transgression in her eyes because toxic people more often than not want the last word.

Be prepared for the very real possibility that all the contents of your letter will be both denied and minimised (along the cannot remember lines). She may well do you a favour by going no contact with you herself.

Hi,thanks borisbeckerslover I felt immediately better after posting on here and just talking about it. I describe my mother as being 'ill' because there is a problem,but no one is allowed to mention it and we all tip toe around her. She would not own up to needing help at all.

I am just going to keep my distance for a while and not put myself out for her again. She has an extreme form of (I have no idea how to describe this) selfishness? All conversation must relate to her or be directly in her control and I genuinely think she has no insight into it.

Anyhoo,I am just tired of it all particularly of being bullied. In some ways she is tragic because she is frightened of many aspects of life.

Thank you very much for replying. I think I will read a few of the threads and post occasionally,if that is ok. Thank again.

Thanks boris.

Yes I think she does just accept. I also think she is manipulated by mum so mum looks nice. She dresses things up but others in the family see its manipulation.

Thanks Attila. Yes, I am expecting to have a reply that consists of denial, blame-shifting and minimisation. Looking back, perhaps I shouldn't have sent letter but I suppose at least it's out there now- her response will be telling in itself won't it!

Good idea to keep your distance for a while Guggenheim. You'll probably feel better for it. Sounds like you have good support from others which is so important.

Hi all. I've been reading this thread for ages but this is my first time posting on it. I would love a bit of advice.

I was just wondering whether anyone on here has gone NC with a toxic family member, and what was the final thing that made them do it?

The reason why I ask: my mother is a very difficult woman. I'm not sure if she's a narc exactly but she is very intrusive, controlling and manipulative. For example, intrusively interfering with my DBs families, and trying to take over control of my career, etc. Her intrusive tactics partly caused the breakdown of one of my DBs marriage and have at times made life for all of us unbearable. It has taken me years to come to certain realisations about her - until about 6 years ago I believed her own publicity about being a 'great mother', and it was only after seeing various friends have children, and how they treated their kids, that I realised - she wasn't a great mother at all - she was bossy, controlling, self-involved, and emotionally neglectful.

Anyway, for several years I've lived quite happily in a state of low contact with her (phone call once a month, seeing her three or maybe four times a year.) I hate to say it, but being away from my mother has improved my life no end.

Recently I've had a breakthrough in my career. It's something I've been working for a long time, resulting in a small amount of local publicity. I tried, but couldn't get around inviting my mother to an event related to this.

Anyway as a result of this career breakthrough, my mother has stepped up her 'hoovering' to a level I haven't seen for 5 or 6 years. Messaging me constantly, trying to make me responsible for the success / failure of an upcoming family gathering ("Send me dates when you're free so I can organise G's party!" - this is a distant relative whose party I probably couldn't go to anyway due to other commitments), and worst of all, trying to get to me using other people in my professional sphere.

I'm really worried about this because on first meeting my mother seems so plausible, she is very good at getting people to like her hugely straight away, and I look like a bitch for not getting drawn in. It is so stressful. I'm worrying that my mother is going to successfully going to get involved in my life again, using people in my professional sphere, and that this could cause me huge embarrassment professionally (she is very good at finding ways to get involved even though she has no idea what she's doing - see above, being likeable and plausible.)

It is causing me a load of stress at the moment and I'm starting to think about going NC with her. At the same time I know she would still try to maneouvre contact with me, and become a tragic heroine character, casting me as the cold, unfeeling daughter who's cut her off for no good reason. I'm also worried that the only way to get her out of my life completely would mean that I'd also have to cut off my DB & DSis, which I don't really want to do.

Thanks to anyone who's read this far. I would love some thoughts & advice.

From the sketch you've drawn of your mother, I think this would be a very bad time to go NC, Bruce. She's taking opportunities for self-aggrandisement through your career; if you dump her now, won't she make frantic efforts to re-engage with your professional circle? That could be hideous.

My suggestion - and I'm not saying I'm right, others may view things differently - would be to maintain a cordial personal relationship with her, but NOT tell her anything about what's going on in your own life. Either lie about why you can't go to family events, or repeatedly blank enquiries with "That just doesn't work for me, sorry." If she feels you're moving away from her due to your new-found importance - even 'getting above yourself' - that may work in your favour.

Meanwhile, depending on her persistence, distance yourself from her professionally. If there are some people you can confide in about your mother's sudden interest, do so! In general, I'm sure you can manage some passive-aggressive sardonic humour about her parasitical behaviour.

Hi Garlic. Thanks for your reply.

I think you're absolutely right that if I went NC now, things would get much worse. She'd definitely step things up a notch. My desire to go NC at this point is probably just wishful thinking on my part!

I like your suggestion to keep a distance - that's one that's worked well with her in the past. I suppose I'm just worried that this new opportunity for aggrandisement on her part will lead to greater persistence on her part. But I'll do what I can to damp that down.

Thanks so much for replying - it's so good to have somewhere to talk about this stuff. So many people just can't comprehend having a difficult relationship with their mother. (I really envy those people!)

Yeah, me too At least we now know what functional relationships look like!

Bruce you seem really clued up about your Mum and how to handle her. I think garlic is right. If you keep the boundaries in place you've had, keep being distant, don't respond straight away to any messages and be consistent in your approach hopefully things will cool off again.

I know you're feeling quite anxious that she's reverting to how she was 6 years ago but I think you're older and wiser now to her and it will be ok. If things don't improve then you can look at NC.

Just wanted to moan a bit, sorry.

Our beautiful second son is now 7 weeks old and I miss my adoptive mother so much. I really wish she could see our 6 yo and the new little baby. We came very close indeed to loosing the Pipsqueak and I could have talked to her about it, it still preys on my mind.

I miss having a father who's actually interested. It still hurts that my adoptive father simply wouldn't care if the Pipsqueak or I had not survived. And while he was kind in the way he rejected us, I am sad that the biological father / grandfather wants nothing to do with my beautiful boys.

There are no solutions and my in laws are amazing. I just wanted to write down somewhere that I miss having my own parents.

Thanks Garlic and Dontstepon. Things have calmed down the last few days thankfully, although I did get another bizarre text from her today which I feel able to laugh off. The good thing about my mother is, she forgets about things so easily. (Gets attracted to new, shiny things very quickly).

Meerka, I'm so sorry to hear you're missing your adoptive mum. It sounds a bit like a double-whammy suckerpunch of grief - to not have the mum you want to talk to, but the adoptive father who is there, but might as well not be. So sorry that you're in pain.

It sounds like you have a lot of support around you, though. I hope the pain of it fades for you soon.

Oh Meerka

Very behind on the thread but just a quick one: I am NC with toxics who live nearby. It can be done and is well worth any awkwardness believe me.

Can anyone tell me what's difference with bacp and ukcp. Which therapys have you gone for ?

There isn't really much in it to my knowledge - some people are members of one, some of both. I would have a look through both and just see who feels like the right fit for you.

bruce .. you're right, I do have some great support and friends and my MIL is the best ever (not often you hear that on MN is it!). Am so glad of her.

Oh God, sorry to be back again but right now it feels like the worst has just happened. MIL has just suggested her taking DD out tomorrow without me. I am absolutely positively no way in hell going to let her loose on DD - I'm [begrudgingly] doing family visits but only so long as I'm there so I can watch over the situation and mediate any negative influences (MIL obviously doesn't know this, it would start WW3 were she to find out). DH has gone back to thinking how lovely it would be for his mum and DD to have a decent relationship, he's even said to me before "I'm sure you'd love it if they spent more time together". Pffft.

I'll either ignore the text or point out that DD is being extremely clingy with me at the moment and in no way would enjoy being away from me (which is true, she doesn't even want her dad right now and would scream and cry the whole time she's with MIL without me, but I don't think MIL would think much of this and still try to push it). At worst, handled badly, this could end up as another one of those family feuds.

It also brings up the issue of how do I get through the rest of my my children's childhood successfully avoiding MIL ever getting to be alone with them? I don't actually want them left alone with her ever - I've told DH this as well but he's either forgotten or thinks I didn't mean it because I said it whilst I was really angry and upset. Is it realistic? Can I do it? Has anyone else managed this?

"I'm [begrudgingly] doing family visits but only so long as I'm there so I can watch over the situation and mediate any negative influences (MIL obviously doesn't know this, it would start WW3 were she to find out)"

I would stop with the family visits. Also the damage to your children can happen right in front of you, it will happen so fast you will not even have any chance to supposedly mediate. A snide comment about you as their mother made directly to them in your hearing; do not underestimate the damaging power of such words. Its drip, drip, dripped into these childrens ears.

Some grandparents really should not be given any access to their grandchildren. Also Dizzy if she is too toxic/difficult for you to deal with then she will be the exact same to your children. You have to protect them from such malign influences. Your H does not seem at all up to the job he being mired in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). His inaction is also hurting him and his own family unit.

I do not know what type of toxic parent your MIL is but if she is a narcissist in terms of personality then you need to be particularly wary of any contact at all.

Generally, they will either over-value or under-value the grandchild as a means to get to you. Often, when they over-value, it is the objective of the Ngrandparent to steal the child from you. I mean that in both senses, physically and emotionally. Ngrandparents are known for so much trash-talking against you behind your back to your own child or children that they want to go live with grandma or grandpa, or the Ngrandparents simply inspire rebellion of the child against you. They steal the hearts of the grandchildren. Sometimes, they will battle for physical custody of a grandchild after their slander campaign against you has won them powerful allies. Many times the Ngrandparent has a lot of extra cash to throw around since they are done raising a family. They may successfully exploit the natural selfishness of the child by using cash or toys to lure them.

(I saw the German flag and on a much lighter note my DS thinks that Germany will get to the 1/4 finals).

I don't think we can go NC, as much as I would be happy to. It has to be a joint decision and it's not one DH is right now going to make - as and when they have their next big fight and if she threatens to never ever be speaking to him again though there is no way I'll be pushing for contact! I do know in some circumstances I would leave DH, though it would have to be pretty dramatic to do so and even then I know it's not an end in itself as when not together I'd have even less control over whether or how much my kids saw MIL. Rock and a hard place spring to mind. Right now I feel the best I can do is mediate and minimise contact as much as possible. But yes, I do worry. A lot.

My analysis of MIL is that at her core she's quite a hurt individual. I can see there's a lot of pain. Sometimes she can be nice. But when her 'core' is threatened then there is almost this animal instinct to psychologically protect herself at all costs. No one is safe from it, not even her own children. And I do know full well that my children won't be safe from it either. It's as though thinking or seeing anything bad within herself would be too painful to bare, so she has to make everyone else bare it instead. Plus there are other things about her that just aren't that nice imo, the nice things she does do just don't make up for it.

I'm still hoping to move to Germany someday.