"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Whatever her past, sezam, its in -her- hands to change it. There is nothing you can do to change her.

So, its down to dealing with her as she is if you can't go no contact.

Have you tried going low contact?

Regarding the killing yoruself thing, that is an utterly unscrupulous trick - i'm afraid it's actually wicked. it's such an emotionally powerful thing to do to someone who loves you. It's just wrong.

Regarding other complaints, woudl it work to say:-

"what are you going to do about it?"
"we've talked about it before, lets talk about something else"
"i don't really want to hear about this any more" and then if she keeps on talking about it, get up and suggest meeting next week or whatever. Make it clear, without being aggressive about it, that you simply won't stick around for it but that you will be there if she can speak of other things.

About the suicide stuff though, either she means it or she doesnt. If she doesnt - do you think she would actually do it? - then the threats can be disregarded. If she does mean it, then its much more difficult. Can you contact her doctor, and tell her you have? The doctor will probably not discuss it with you, but at least then they will know. By telling her, you show her that you are taking it very seriously. It may bring her up sharp. If she gets angry, you'll know it was a control game. if she is grateful - you'll know it's for real, and that is more serious.

Most of all, it would help to slowly step back emotionally and begin to observe her, rather than be involved.

I'd also second attilla's words that if she is too much for you, then there's a good chance she's setting a poor example subtly for your son.

Thank you for your replies.

Last time it happened, she was in a bad way - depressed, crying a lot, drinking lots of wine, not going out etc. I phoned the doctor an made an appointment and we went down together. She wasn't keen on going as it was a man rather than her female doctor, but he gave her something to help her sleep and she seemed to get better.

She has had a lot happen over the years and always just carries on with her problems adding to her list of burdens/issues without ever resolving them and when we argue, brings up things from 10 years ago that I accept was wrong, but I can see now since I've grown, that I was in the wrong, I've apologised and I can't change the past - and yet, it come up. Rather than being able to say - you've come a long way since you did ... When you were 16 and moving on as two adults, she's always the wronged party.

When we talk about my teenage years and I explain that my actions were a defence to her own, she says that in the circumstances, it was hard to cope and it was the only thing that she could do - I agree with her. It was a tough time and she did what she thought was the best for us and given her mental state, could not have acted any differently. I accept that an I forgive her. As I got older (around 15/16) she seemed to be more in control of her actions and it was around this time that things started being less about coping and more about control.

I have tried less contact, but in truth, I really crave having a loving, caring parent and I keep hoping that this will happen like some kind of miracle. The idea of accepting that it isn't going to happen makes me really sad.

In 27 years, I've had 2 apologies from her. Both in the last few years, and in both instances, I feel it's just words. She was appalling while I was PG and I will never get those months of crying myself to sleep every night and feeling so so alone while I should have been enjoying being pregnant rather than every night wishing him away. That damage can never be repaired or forgiven

sezam

Your mother is a drunkard and you may well have co-dependency issues stemming from this. You certainly have enabling issues going on with her and that only gives you a false sense of control. Did you tell the GP she has an alcohol problem?. Alcoholics as well are truly some of the most selfish people going, they do not care about anyone else but themselves. Infact her primary relationship is with drink, her main preoccupation now is where the next drink is coming from.

Please speak to Al-anon; they are ideal for people like your good self.

This type of dysfunction goes down the generations and you're just the latest in a line to be so affected. Her behaviour will affect your child too.

Your mother will not change but you can certainly change how you react to her and start enforcing properly defined boundaries (which have either been too low or non existent to begin with). Low contact is definitely possible.

And yes she is indeed too toxic for your child to have any sort of contact with; he needs life affirming and positive role models, not a selfish drunk of a grandmother who throws out the "I'll kill myself" nonsense to you his mother now and again to keep you in line. Its about power and control and she knows you are currently a willing audience.

BTW alcohol is a depressant and she is likely to be self medicating with alcohol. She is likely also to be badly underestimating how much she is
actually drinking.

Re this comment:-
"I really crave having a loving, caring parent and I keep hoping that this
will happen like some kind of miracle. The idea of accepting that it isn't going to happen makes me really sad".

You have to fully accept that this is not going to happen; she has and is far too damaged. Also she has never really apologised fulsomely nor has accepted any real responsibility for her actions. These are the actions really of a typical toxic parent.

BTW its not your fault she is the ways she is; her own birth family unleashed all that onto her. What do you know about her own childhood btw, pound to a penny some types of abuse featured within it.

what you're saying about wishing your pregnancy ended resonates pretty painfully sezam though for very different reasons.

Nothing is worth that. Nothing and no one. Unforgiveable without one hell of a genuine, heartfelt apology.

Most of us here understand the longing for a loving and nurturing mother rather powerfully I think. Its a very hard thing to come to terms with but she is not one and it seems unlikely she ever will be.

Your son is the future, not your mother.

I think it's been a constant stream of abuse from one person or another.

Parents, sexual abuse from school teacher, lots of abusive partners - mentally, physically, emotionally - she's still getting it now.

I find it very frustrating as, as an adult, I know it is her choice to be this way.

Did not mention alcohol to Dr.

She just always has a moan about something and everything is always everyone's fault but her own.

She makes me sad because I know she'll always be unhappy.

Funny because my sister seems to be so different with her. They have an agreement where sis gets in touch when she likes and mum doesn't bother her. They're a lot closer. Perhaps because sis gives her the boundaries that I struggle to put in place.

One of her favourite past times is playing us siblings off against each other.

Dad isn't around, so she's the only parent that I have.

I fell pregnant unexpectedly. I was single, 20, I didn't want to have a baby. I booked in for a termination. We were living together at the time. She was off with me after we'd say and discussed my decision. She said she could hardly look at me and laid on some very thick emotional blackmail and I changed my mind.

I carried on living with her. She was vile. She wanted me to love out. My sister didn't want me sleeping on the floor in her bedroom anymore. I got moved to the sofa. I was working full time, I was exhausted. Mum would stay up till late watching telly. Telling me all the while what a pain it was having me love with her.

When I phoned her on my lunch break one day (having a lovely day, the sun was shining, I was out of a walk) - she told me that I had to love out an that when I got back from work, all of my things would be outside in bin liners.

Her next door neighbour found me outside crying one day and let me stay at her house in her spare room. I got a blow up mattress and I state there for the last few months of pregnancy.

When I came back from antenatal class feeling confident with pain relief free labour and saying to her how the midwife had assured us about milk not coming through for a few days and if baby is crying on day 2 it's normal - she went on about how when my sister was 2 days old, when she cried in the night, my father had physically kicked her out of bed. And that's how it goes on and on.

She complained to my Aunt about me and would come telling me what she thought of me and so I felt like there was no one that I could talk to or confide in. I was crying at at work and have so few happy memories of my entire pregnancy - and I will never get that precious time back.

And I will never be able to forgive her.

sezam

You are really under no obligation at all to have any sort of a relationship with your mother these days.

What she has done is indeed unforgiveable. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend and your mother is truly no different.
She has and continues to treat you (and by turn your son now) very cruelly.

As Meerka correctly surmises, your son is the future not your mother.

Argh! DM is now apparently in la-la-la fingers in ears phase again. Texting me as if nothing's up.

I want to text her to remind her that i'll not be playing ball until she apologises and takes responsibility for her actions.

How about 'i'm afraid if you're not going to face up to how you've treated me (excluding me from your house move, even lying by omission, and coming to my home, insulting me, and terrorising my son through agressive behaviour by you and your H) then I don't want to be in contact with you, or allow any between you and my son.'

She won't stop without me making a stand. Been there, done that. :(

good god, hissy she's still going?

Your text sounds reasonable and indeed rather patient. She sounds like she needs a mountain to stop her bulldozing.

Hi Hissy, hope you don't mind me butting in.

I'd say it's too late on the day to be texting her back.

I find deleting texts from DM when she's on one without reading them is quite satisfying. Reading them makes me angry and frustrated. So I just delete, delete, delete. Then when she goes on about them when I see her, and she's all frustrated and "didn't you read my texts?!" I can say no, I just deleted them - it totally deflates her.

Perhaps text her back (in the morning) saying that it is unfortunate that she keeps making you take this attitude with her, but so long as you keep acting this way, I'll have no choice but to NC you. If you really are sorry for what you have said and done, then you will accept her apology and you can then move on."

So hard knowing you'll be doing this all again in a few months time.

meerka she did stop after the police incident, but sis told her abour ds accident, which was ok. I've kept her (and all the family) up to date with his progress.

But then I got the phone calls telling me she was coming to stay/help. But I wasn't asked if I needed any help, and I felt bulldozered. I told her (and sis) this, but there's never any reply to my 'boundaries' text, just this 'I hear this about ds, thinking of you' and heard thay ds is better, hope all ok.

Who keeps up the happy clappy contact without any recognition of the fact that there aren't any replies?

Normal people don't do this!

Fucking hell, just watching crimewatch, and even the nutter that probably abducted his stalking victim questioned why she didn't return or take his calls.

Perhaps my reply to her should be 'didn't you receive my previous text? About you taking responsibility etc?'

It's all so fucking pointless. She's not going to take responsibility, nor apologise. How do I make her stop this insane monolgue? Remind her that the police told her to not contact me?

it would be enough to make anyone scream.

You must have more than enough on your plate atm without all this right now. If you do have spare energy, reminding her the police told her not to contact you might help? (although then you might have to back it up by getting the police involved again when she ignores it :( ). Perhaps a mix of reminding her of the police warning and then blocking her number, and asking sis not to pass on information?

I appreciate that at the moment its hard to completely cut someone out. Just thinking that you really do -not- need this extra rhinoceros-hassle.

Hi all, hope everyone is ok. hissy how is your son?

All is quiet on the DM front which is good, but I need to offload about an argument I had with DH last night. In fact, it wasn't really an argument, it was more me ranting and crying and blaming him for everything and making him feel like shit. I feel horrid this morning, but am banging my head against a wall with certain issue with him and it strikes me that I actually don't know how to convey myself without bursting into tears and shouting. I felt like I was doing exactly what DM used to do - berate someone for how ghastly she was being made to feel. I'm ashamed that I totally just went into DM-mode .

I know it's partly due to the fact that I'm 7.5 months pregnant and not sleeping well, but the underlying issues remain (basically that DH isn't earning very much at the moment, but is too shy/scared to put himself out there and drum up more business, which I sympathise with but we've still got living costs; he's now using his savings to pay his share into the joint account. Voluntary redundancy is a possibility for me at work which I'd love to take - I've found working 4 days pw from home this past 18 months has been really hard - and we all agree it would be better for the children if I could spend more time at home and it would mean less running around like a headless chicken juggling childcare/house admin/work - but because he's sodding about not setting his business up properly, redundancy isn't a real option because we can't afford it when he's only working 1 week out of 4. The alternative to redundnancy for me is to go back 5 days a week in the office meaning I'd be out from 7.30-6.30 all week. It would break me and I'm panicking about it all and he's still doing bugger all.)

I've tried talking calmly and just sitting back and letting him get on with it, but it just all felt to much yesterday and I lost it. I don't want to make him feel shitty but he has to step up a gear. I've told him that I simply cannot cope with this uncertainty and lack of stability and need him to be busting a gut to secure work so he can provide for us. I think he feels so overwhelmed it's freezing him on the spot. How do I support him and stay calm yet successfully get my message across? I genuinely don't know what approach to take and was mortified after my rage last night on so many different levels. DD even saw some of it and started mimicking me shouting .

I dunno, nearlyready, I have the same thing. In the early days after our first son was born, my now-husband stonewalled me endlessly. calm talking did nothing. So like you I ended up shouting and over-emotional. Which sent cold water down my spine, to be so like my biological mother.

I'm sorry, I don't have any useful tips, only to say that I sympathise.

( I assume you have actually asked him what you can do to help! Sometimes you just need your other half to get off his arse and DO something).

This is what I want to say:

What are you trying to achieve here? If you go la-la-la for long enough that I will just forget about your behaviour towards us? That everything goes back to ‘normal’?

‘Normal’ is NOT what is going on here. It’s NOT normal to move house and deliberately NOT tell one or any of your family/friends anything about it. If a friend did that to another friend, the friendship would be clearly signalled as over.

Normal people don’t do this to others, and when it’s raised and they have clearly caused hurt, they take it on the chin and apologise. Not making up excuses.

Normal people DON’T ignore the whole thing for months and months, carrying on as normal with call after unanswered call.

Normal people DON’T come into another person’s home, uninvited, and verbally insult them, call them names or threaten them.

Normal people DON’T roar and barge at a mother and her child. Ever.

Normal people LEAVE when asked to do so.

Normal people also would leave after the Police were called. They wouldn't wait for them to get there.

What you did with the move was unbelieveable and hurtful, what you did in my home, to my son and me was unforgivable.

You and your husband have behaved abominably towards us. I can't see how you can possibly repair what you have done. Burying your head in the sand, or making up elaborate stories is NOT going to ever resolve this. - all of which I have heard, and debunked by the way.

I have no interest in maintaining any kind of contact with either of you as it stands.

Hi Hissy

I hope your son is continuing to recover.

These people will take a mile if given an inch and any further texts from your mother should be deleted without reading.

I would not send a message in reply because any contact from you will be seen as a "reward" so they will bother you even more. People like your mother will always hoover to try and draw their intended victims back into their own web of dysfunction.

I know this about the 'reward' Atilla, but we've done 6m already of her weekly (ignored) fucking phonecalls.

Just having her contact me makes me feel shit. She needs to stop. She won't though, not without something making her. I'm going to have to tell her to stop contacting me.

Maybe 'I believe the Police were clear for you not to contact me. Nothing has changed since then. Please don't contact me again.'

I would seriously consider speaking to the police again about her contacting yourself. I do not think that you telling her to stop contacting you would actually be enough to make her stop. It needs to come from someone official who would likely make sit up and take notice.

Well, I have told her to stop, that she'd been told to not contact me by the police and that she's not changed or taken responsibility. That was pretty much it.

IF she contacts me again, then I can contact the police in good conscience.

That, for me, is important.

I've been re-directed her buy another MNetter. I posted a theaded wanting to know What are your earliest memories of your toxic parents? The first nasty thing they said, or the first nasty action, the first bit of guilt they laid upon you?

I've been thinking recently and I've blocked a lot of my childhood out and I've only just realised. I can remember bits and pieces but only the good things and I don't know why or when this happened.

but my first memory, I would of been between 10-12 years old. We went to Tesco and I asked for a sweet as we were doing our weekly food shop. She said no and being a child I asked why. I turns out I was "to fat" and If I wasn't careful I would "end up as fat as my useless father, so fat I'd have to go to them special shops for fat ugly people that nobody wants" I can still remember her words, the poison on her tongue as clear as day.

However that "never happened" of course because my mother said so.

Thanks for the replies - i was a bit scared to come back and read them, so have only done so tonight. I'm minimum contact and thinking about NC. I've ordered 'Healing the inner child' today.

I wonder though, if your Narc parent was treated badly by their parents, by their spouse and has had mental health problems are you meant to have compassion? how come some people can be strong enough to deal with whatever crap the narc parent sends their way. And i end up stressed/anxious for days every time i have to speak to her.

How do i stop giving her so much headspace?

Hello.
I posted in relationships thread earlier and was advised to read up here/post here.

I feel I have had a sudden realisation of my mums selfish, toxic behaviour and realise I no longer am prepared to tolerate it. Recent events with her separating from my step dad (2nd one!) re-ignited memories of when she spilt with my dad and first step dad(!). Just turned so bloody nasty,making threats towards them. Telling me I was to have nothing to do with my step dad now, despite my kids wanting to maintain contact as it's the only grandad they've known. My mum even decided to tell me and my dsis that she thought my step dad was a paedophile! Such a nasty bitch. She now has new partner (within weeks of splitting with step dad. She met him on dating website she originally went on to stalk step-dad). She now moved in with him, expects us all to just accept she's with him now. Has no awareness of how confusing this is for her grandchildren!

She's always been extremely critical and judgemental. Never seems to have anything positive to say. Never really interested in what I'm up to and never has been.

Recently, when sent her a text saying no I wasn't going to stop all contact with my step dad and my gp's, aunt etc (who she's also fallen out with) and said I didn't need stress of her keep ringing me about this stuff (only time does ring) and my family came first, she showed my db the text and said she wasn't even going to respond. Not heard from her since. She's given money to both my dsis and db (following sale of her house), and nothing to me! Pretty sure she knows my dsis and db would've told me that got money and trying cause rift between us I reckon!

I feel so hurt by her behaviour. Not sure what to do if she does ring/text. I do feel some relief since not had her negativity around me. Still upsetting to think she'd disown me so easily. I'm so fortunate to have an amazing dh and pil's and I realise they can give me the care and support I need.