"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Mommybird

With regards to your MIL I would say that no contact from her is good news (never respond in kind to any communiques/demands). Do not worry yourself unduly and certainly chat to your DH but continue to remain vigilant.

I would reiterate to you that your MIL has no automatic rights of access with regards to her grandchildren in this country, she has not got a leg to stand on re any sort of access.

Pumpkinsweetie

Have you spoken to the phone network provider/s?. If not I would certainly do that in the first instance as they are usually pretty good with such issues. They can block her number. That process too is far easier than getting your own phone numbers changed.

It may be that you may need to have a word with the police in time if she continues to hassle you all like this. Under the Communications Act 2003 as well, it is a criminal offence to leave messages which are grossly offensive, or to make indecent or obscene or menacing telephone calls or calls which cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety.

You have every right not to be harassed.

Mommybird put it in writing at your dcs schools as my parents we're let in to upset my ds1 as the school didn't realise that they are child abusers. Maybe make an appointment with the head teacher too.

pumpkin

This is bullying by phone. we know it, you know it and she bloody well knows it. You have told her not to call you, right? well you can call the police on 101 to MAKE her stop.

Failing that, if you are with BT, then call them and ask about the following:

Caller Display – lets you see the number that's calling you before you answer so you can decide whether to pick up the phone or ignore unwanted calls. BT Privacy includes registration with the Telephone Preference Service and the option of Caller Display
Choose to Refuse – helps block particular numbers from getting through to you
Anonymous Call Reject – lets you block incoming calls from withheld UK numbers

Sylvia

Welcome to stately homes.

Hello everyone I am very new to this

I havent got time to go into great detail but I will list whats been on my mind

DM had little patience with me sometimes as a child because of the menopause and DF being a dominant but negative influence on her (he was insecure and didnt like her going out with friends)

I have a memory that keeps coming back to me lately of her being busy in the kitchen baking (she was always cleaning aswell - ocd) and I wanted to help. Each task she gave me I seemed to fail in some way... but I remember she asked me to cut some dates in half and I did so, happily chattering away and then some fell on the floor.. or I knocked something on the floor, and she blew her top. I cried in my bedroom for my dad to come home from work, feeling completely useless, hopeless and stupid.

She often drifted off and stared into space while I was chattering, eventually I recognised the look and thought Id better shut my mouth as whatever Im babbling about must be boring/selfish/of no importance.
She sometimes sat and stared miserably at the fireplace. I started to do that too.

I snap at Dp and dd or ignore them the way she did with me. Or I talk to him like theyre stupid, or coldly, or impatiently like DM did with my dad. She would slag him off to me a lot. I know I am directly copying how she was with my own family.

She tells me Im fat and has done for years. By that I mean that my belly is fat - its sticks out (its the first place I put weight on and last place it comes off). When Im talking she looks me up and down analysing me for faults. She recently asked me to lift my top so she could look at belly and see why its fat, I must be a freak (Im a size10/12)

I thought I couldnt make a cup of tea for years because hers was never right. After leaving school and starting work (lots of making tea for the office) I realised it was actually just her being over critical as I never received a complaint from anyone else

She used to tell me I should be more like so-and-so at school (friends of mine) if they were bubbly/confident/jolly types. I was often told I was a misery by my parents. I never felt a misery around friends

I ignore my 3 yr old dd sometimes or switch off when shes talking away and asking me to play. Worse, when I wind myself up over how worthless and stupid I feel inside I take my anger out on her. I am shouty and today while throwing things around found myself getting a horrid kick out of telling her to get out of my f*cking way and stop thinking everything was about HER.

I am disgusted and horrified at what I have become. I always think that if I were to die it would make no difference to dp and dd, shed get a better upbringing from him and his family anyway and she wouldnt become warped by my vicious words

Despite all of this I cannot say my mother was bad. She and my DF are supportive and helpful and generous and look after dd whenever we need.
But I remember the negative and how bad she made me feel sometimes
I am mixed up with resentment and guilt and self hatred.
Have had anxiety and depression on and off for years
Had post-natal depression with dd and was robbed of any enjoyment I should have felt with her.

Thankyou for reading, I dont know how to proceed tbh.

Viciouscircle welcome. Have you looked into getting counselling? Are you under a lot of pressure or tired?

It's not ok how you're treating DD but you know it's wrong and want to change. So I can only encourage you to start seeking help.

Your upbringing has affected you. I sometimes get cross with my DCs and realise I sound like my parents and then loathe myself. At my lowest point (before being diagnosed with depression) I really struggled with my DCs and used to cry after they were in bed. As I didn't want to behave that way. It's hard. It's a few years on now but the way I parent is completely different now and I feel like a different person. Going nc with my Dad has helped, counselling, ADs and reading a lot of books. You'll get there.

I need to dash but this is a safe place. Please keep posting.

Just realised my stress today is to do with dp's family. Theyre a mish mash of resentments and jealousies and i wish i didnt have to see them sometimes.
I know this is utterly childish and petty but theirhappy facade on facebook makes me seethe. Theres no attention paid to me or dp on there but his dm and eldest sister fawn over younger sister, her husband and their baby son.
Elder sister is the black sheep and does not feel loved or included, but the over the top ingratiating display by everyone on that site is sickening.
There is favouritism for sure. Being around them and their acts make me ill, i never know how to be because dp's mother has different personalities depending on who is around her. Dp and i do not involve ourselves - he doesnt care and they make me feel insecure and pointless.

That sounds terribly childish i know, i am still trying to figure out why i cant just stop caring.

Thank you Dontstep. I would love counselling, tried to get some once but after the doctor referral and initial assessment i didnt hear back! Should have contacted them again bit chose ad's instead. They worked but side effects were bad.
Its so good to read that you understand and have worked hard to come through your suffering with success

I've been feeling very guilty about being 'not there' for my kids, in body but not soul. Not all the time but still. I get very guilty about snapping and not listening (I find their chatter so very boring sometimes, it's embarrassing to say). I've been very tired too and leaving them to have more time than they should on their tablets whilst I sleep!

Thanks pps re: support going back on ADs. Counselling starts next week. I'm feeling a bit better now and hoping that it will continue...

I understand being there on body but not soul aswell dirtypaws

ViciousCircle

Re counselling BACP are good and do not charge the earth. I'd have a look at them.

Re counsellors as well you need to find someone that fits in with your approach. I would also try and find someone that has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

Your upbringing has certainly affected you and you are likely still very much in a FOG state -a state of fear, obligation, guilt with regards to your parents.

You probably can't stop caring because you are still looking on some level for their approval (from any adult figure). Your parents never gave you that and they as parents utterly failed you.

I would carefully reconsider whether you actually want them to have any further involvement in your child's life bearing in mind the awful childhood they gave you. They were toxic parents and such people actually do not make for being good grandparents either. You may well also find that they are supportive and helpful primarily and only when it suits them to do so as well.

vicious i'd second considering carefully how much or little contact you have with your dp's family.

Clearly your daughter is your first priority but the stress of your DP's family is making it harder to resist the patterns laid down from your own childhood. Changing those patterns is really hard but it's the best way forward. Avoiding unrewarding stress from unrewarding people also helps.

I do think you need (skilled) counselling too. Changing those patterns takes self-awareness which is really hard to do when you're in the middle of it with a threenager and house and maybe working as well. A skilled counsellor / therapist can help greatly.

I know what you mean about being there in body but not soul too. am trying very hard to do better.

Thanks so much for the replies.

Attila Although DM is a mental mess and DF is as deep as the ocean I love them and still feel at my most comfortable in their house having a cup of tea. Well sometimes I do.. mostly. Dd loves them and they are very good with her, particularly my dad. There is some FOG though.

Meerka I have hidden Dp's family from my fb now and I plan to share very little with them from now on and keep my distance as much as possible without it looking deliberate.
YY to "threenager" ha.

I have been thinking about the possibility of counselling all evening. Ive always had an interest in psychology and have been told Im very good at taking apart a personal situation and making it clearer for others, but typically Im at a loss with myself, theres just too many layers.

DM had a terrible childhood. Abuse, physically and emotionally. Neglect aswell. She told me she swore she would never do the same to her child but the scars of what she went through obviously ran too deep and she ended up repeating some of the negativity.
As she was made surrogate mother to her younger siblings a lot she decided she wanted to do everything for me, so that I never felt like she did. I never really had to lift a finger, but over the years she would say things like "your problem is youve been molly-coddled too much, wrapped in cotton wool. Dont know how you'll cope once you get into the real world." Even though the hypocrisy is obvious it took me years to realise that in fact I wasnt completely at fault for feeling incredibly inadequate and useless.
Her first marriage was with a very childish, abusive man and lasted 14 years, until he died in his mid-30's of cancer. She once told me that she believed she had endured a hard and sad childhood and marriage so that my life would be trouble free..in a karmic sort of way..?? Words failed me.

I have longed to bond with her in the way that I could discuss all of my fears and insecurities and she could be open and sympathetic, but I have always just been harshly judged.
I once broke down in tears in the middle of a pub telling her how depressed I had been, and how heartbroken I felt after a particularly bad relationship. She listened and for once I really felt like she might connect with me and talk me through all the crap on my mind to get rid of it once and for all.
The next morning I felt like a weight was lifted but when I got up she had a face like thunder and said "dont ever say anything like that to me again. Im very surprised at you for going on like that and I dont want to hear it ever again." I just crumbled, felt absolutely alone.

I only know two people I can call friends. Most women I have found myself in the company in have been distrustful and two-faced.
In all my relationships I have eventually became distrustful, cold and distant and never felt I was worth the bother for anybody.

Reading all of this back it feels extremely self indulgent and I can hear DM saying "stop thinking about yourself all the time" in my head as I type, and I bet it is odd to read at the beginning that I still love them. It feels easier to love my dad though.

I want to be a warm, pleasant emotionally available and loving partner and mother so badly. When I try to be it just feels so false and laboured.
Intimacy with Dp has dwindled so much that sex life is zero. Sorry if that is tmi, am just realising that is probably linked.

Children now adults love parents no matter how abusive they are or were.

I would think very carefully about the amount of contact your DD now has with them. Your parents were not good parents, toxic people do not make for being good grandparents either. She will likely start on your own child given time and opportunity; what makes you think she could actually behave decently these days?. Both your parents failed and still fail you utterly and took their own issues and failings as people out on you. It is not your fault they are this way, in your mother's case her own childhood was the foundation for all that damage she meted out to you as a child. She does the same to you as an adult as well.

It is to your credit indeed that you realise this is wrong and want to change dysfunctional learnt patterns for your DDs sake. You can do this and break free of their tyranny.

Re this comment:-
"Most women I have found myself in the company in have been distrustful and two-faced"

All of them are/were like your mother no doubt because that is all that you have really known.

"In all my relationships I have eventually became distrustful, cold and distant and never felt I was worth the bother for anybody".

Again you learnt all that at the hands of your toxic parents. Would you want to teach your child the same lessons, of course you do not and you realise that what happened to you was a) wrong on all levels and b) not your fault, you were a child after all. They failed you, not the other way around.

Do look at counselling again as well. An organisation like BACP could well help you.

in addition to the wise words of Attilla, it might be an idea to sit down with your husband and talk to him. If the sex has gradually diminished, then likely other problems will surface. talking to him, explaining, saying that you know things are difficult but you want to do them differently, will communicate your fundamental care and concern to him. If you have grown cold and mistrustful, that will help him a lot, to see the other viciouscircle80 under the damage that your mother has done.

vicious you're not being self-indulgent. Clearly you have a lot of history that entitled you to be angry, hurt and confused. I too sometimes feel like I'm just repeating what my dm did and I hate it. My head is so cluttered at the moment with a million different things so I totally get the 'there in body not in soul' thing too. I don't have any real advice but wanted to say you're not alone, you're not as bad as you think, it's tiring having a toddler, and acknowledging and realising some of this stuff is fucking hard-going and all-consuming. So be kind to yourself if you can, you need it and deserve it. Well done for facing your feelings and your fears and for being honest, that takes a lot and shows a lot.

A book that might be helpful, DirtyPaws and ViciousCircle, is Parenting From the Inside Out by Daniel Siegel, available on Amazon (Sorry I can not do the link to Amazon because Amazon puts my name on the page.) It is about not letting our baggage from our past circumstances (as kids) affect or control our present circumstances (as parents relating to our kids). It may also be in your local library.

I've got bloody bronchitis again! Have counselling on Tues but knackered so think I might cancel. Not sure if I'll go back actually.

why not, good?

I'm really busy, like stupid busy, for the next 3 weeks or so and although it has been helpful as validation for what I know but feel guilty about, it's a lot of money. I'll see how things pan out, but I think saying it all out loud has been good and having someone agree that it's not me, has been liberating but I'm not sure how much further I can go with her really, I think I just have to put what I know into practice. A couple of things she said too during sessions which made me think she thought there was some way DM could be improved (or that reduced contact would make DM more clingy) and I just fundamentally disagree with that and also don't think it's my responsibility to fix her in any way.

"A couple of things she said too during sessions which made me think she thought there was some way DM could be improved (or that reduced contact would make DM more clingy) and I just fundamentally disagree with that and also don't think it's my responsibility to fix her in any way".

Well done re realising that it is not your responsibility to fix your mother. It sounds like this counsellor does not really and fully understand narcissists or toxic families and how they operate.

You need ideally to find a counsellor who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

Thanks Band. I might have a look at that.

DF left a message on my mobile that he wants to have a 'little' chat with me, can I call him? Bearing in mind I only spoke to him last month, this is something of a first. I try to avoid speaking at all to him and it generally works well. He's a self bastard and will look after himself first and foremost. If he needs something then he will call. My dread is that he's got some terminal illness and he does the 'pathetic me' act. He's all gushing with 'I love you baby' oh do fuck off. You should have shown me, words are cheap. And what's with the 'baby' he's started calling me. Fuck off, I'm not a baby. Probably designed to put me in child mode? Well I ain't doing that.

I'm not going to phone him. Don't think I've got his number anyway. DB doesn't know what it'd be about.

In the first session when I was telling her about the basic problem (smothering engulfing, living through me) she asked if DM would have therapy with her, which sort of annoyed me as that wasn't what I was there for. If DM decides to have therapy (ha ha ha ha) that's fine, but it's none of my business. In that same session she was saying, isn't there a way she can be encouraged to do stuff, go out, have hobbies and I said that I'd tried that for years and she won't and anyway...again it's not my problem.
I thought I'd give it another session, but I just think she gets a certain amount but not all of it and I'm not sure there's much more she can help me with. I wanted validation that what she had done was awful, now I need to work on detaching more emotionally...
I may go back to her at a later date, but not right now. I'm going to cancel Tuesday as I don't feel physically all that great and leave it in the air about getting back to her.

Don't phone, Dirtypaws.