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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

994 replies

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 26/04/2014 13:39

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
Hissy · 10/05/2014 10:45

Write the reply! But just so that you exorcise it! Don't sent it to her.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 10/05/2014 19:35

Mozzy, the common phrase with the one I got was similar to "...we solve our problems." This is making you an appendage of the great wonderful her and diminishes you right out of your own life. No surprise that you are feeling better (nice to even have your own feelings, isn't it?) being away from her. Well done.

I agree to writing the response and then shredding that too.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 10/05/2014 20:40

It's so sad really! No wonder I have trust and insecurity issues that impact on every friendship from Thursday bottom of page 8
Milly, Cleo, Good and DirtyPaws

I get this too. Imho, it is not just the things we have worked hard to identify...That my years of thinking I had a "normal" childhood, that I was loved, that my sister's and I were all brought up the same were all completely wrong and my assigned "role" in the family dynamics, etc...I think it is also from a universal lack of general parenting. No hugs or empathy or time for a story are emotional neglect. But sometimes I just wish someone would have taken me aside and given me a clue about things like friendship dynamics, sarcasm, boys, things other people might find offensive etc. Nurturing and guidance= nothing.

I feel like, in addition to being invisible, my family role was the fool. I feel like it was entertaining for others to deliberately withhold information to watch me try to recreate the wheel everyday and take much delight in my sophomoric attempts...and still not offer a clue. Angry

I tell myself that I like solitude. Coach myself into being ok with my friendlessness. I am married and have been able to sustain that relationship but it is not a largely social experience as my dh is a workaholic. I have thought that could be due to my social ackwardness, but he does have a time consuming occupation.
#edit whiney rant Grin (and no, I do not tweet!)

Anyway, I got to the point of forgiving me for being me. I am all I have to work with and so just have to settle with doing the best I can. I like myself.

GoodtoBetter · 10/05/2014 21:52

AndTheBandPlayedOn I feel weird because I would have said before that we were really close, but now I feel like I don't know her at all and certainly don't love her, she's like this mad old bat who drives me mad, but at the same time obviously it's far more than that as otherwise she wouldn't bother me. But once the scales fell from my eyes last year, it was like someone anaethetised any feelings I had from her..I sway between feeling nothing and wanting to FUCKING KILL HER.
DBro says the same that he feels there's no depth to their relationshi, that she doesn't know him at all.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 11/05/2014 00:54

GoodToBetter, I got the feeling that my mother did not know me at all when I was 15 or 16. It was one of those passing thoughts that I did not know what to do with, iykwim. Like looking at a distant landscape and not knowing that I was supposed to notice some important feature that was concealed yet right in front of my eyes at the same time. That was the inexperience of youth, coupled with no one around to pull me aside and give me a "heads up".

I have clued my dc in with respects to personalities (their aunt's possible NPD), and social dynamics (well, as much as I could anyway Blush).

I hope your beach trip is going well.

MillyMollyMandy78 · 11/05/2014 09:59

Andtheband - sorry that you get this too. I have only ever had one friend at any one time. My friend now lives far away. I see her once every few years and maybe speak every couple of months.

Dh is my closest friend but otherwise i have just completely given up. I no longer hope or try to make friends. I go to work, am friendly but basically get my head down and focus on getting the job done. i tell myself i am ok with this, and mostly am, but do get very lonely sometimes. I just do not underrstand, as i am well liked etc, just find that by giving up, it saves me some disappointment. I just am not comfortable around other people, makes me feel a bit like a lamb in a slaughterhouse

AttilaTheMeerkat · 11/05/2014 10:13

"I got the feeling that my mother did not know me at all when I was 15 or 16".

I felt like that too and was also given no real heads up on anything in terms of relationships either. Was one of the last girls in the form year to wear a brassiere; I could not understand why she did not buy one far earlier. Maybe she did not want me to grow up or felt v uncomfortable about that whole puberty thang. She never talked to me at any great length about periods partly I feel out of being embarrassed.

I never thought there would be so many steps I'd have to learn on my own.

Present day, I feel it is still the same; I have on one occasion in particular felt like she is the child and I am the parent. Not fair and have also backed off from them for that reason too. They are more interested in my childfree single brother.

Between them and the ILs, they have taught me a very valuable lesson - in how not to behave.

MozzchopsThirty · 11/05/2014 11:03

I think them behaving like children is quite common isn't it

On a recent flight we hit bad turbulence and she turned to me with the most pathetic voice ever and said 'oh mozzy please hold my hand'

WTF even when my children are 40 I will always support them, not the other way round. Even when I've been scared of things in the past I've never shown it to them, I'm their mum and I'm here to make everything right, better and to never be scared of anything

Meerka · 11/05/2014 11:28

its hit me too. very lonely and difficult to make friendships. it grieves me a lot and is one of teh things that is heaviest.

for differnt reasons it was the same for me. with my beloved adoptive mother dying and a father who was, to say the least, emotionally incompetent at that stage, i had to find everything out myself rather than having any guidance.

Made so many mistakes. so many. still do. my social radar is sometimes pretty iffy :(

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 11/05/2014 14:43

MillyMollyMandy yes, exactly. Your second paragraph from your last post is where I am at, too (except I don't work). I have given up too...I know the drill. I suppose I am lucky in a way-dh is a loner too, so at least I do not have the pain of watching him maintain friendships when I have none.

Attila, when I got my period at 14, mother handed me a book about the birds and bees. And that was that. I suffered irregular periods and debilitating cramps and she never asked me about them. My oldest sister taught me about tampons.

However, golden middle sister had a few irregular periods and medical intervention was pursued and she started taking the pill when she was 13. (I didn't know about this until I was mid thirties.) This aspect of "control" may have been a seed for her controlling ways come to think about it. Anyway, it was rather ironic: middle sister was "saving herself for her wedding night" waiting for her Prince to come which never came. She was on the pill for 38 years until she developed chemically induced breast cancer (which was caught very early-she's a hypochondriac too, I think). And all of that is neither here nor there because actually I think she is just gay (not that there is anything wrong with that).

So with 20/20 hind sight, I am glad mother ignored me (on this anyway).

AttilaTheMeerkat · 11/05/2014 15:12

Hi Andthebandplayedon,

"I suffered irregular periods and debilitating cramps and she never asked me about them".

Me too!. (BTW do you still get these?).

My mother was completely clueless as to what was amiss. She did not want me to go on the pill (she probably thought I'd get pregnant. How wrong she was!).

I eventually received two medical diagnosis years later: PCOS and endometriosis. At that time it just was not recognised but awareness re endometriosis amongst some GPs is even now quite poor.

I have also suffered and still do to some extent from social anxiety and particularly hated the office Christmas Party (attendance in my workplace of 5 was mandatory!). That is just one of many things I do not miss about working in an office any more. I find some people easier to mix with than others; I do not like loud brash people who enjoy talking about themselves and their childrens accomplishments (all at gifted and talented/genius level without exception) whilst not being interested in you or even asking after your own child.

I have coerced myself to go out more and still enjoy doing my college course although some days I do stay home and potter about. I am happy in my own skin though but do get lonely sometimes. Loneliness is truly no respecter of persons.

Dirtypaws · 11/05/2014 20:54

Ditto ditto ditto. Have always been socially awkward. Always wanted one or 2 friends that I could really confide in, kind of did have some. Ha ha realise one of them now was a narc! Sucked the life out of me. Always preferred my own company but am sometimes lonely like now.

I recently thought I'd made a good friend but she stopped returning my calls, I don't know why, I'm really hurt by it. It's come at a really bad time.

DM never spoke about the facts of life. I was too embarrassed to tell her I'd started my periods and ended up stealing money to buy sanitary towels. I had to fess up as my mum knew exactly how much money she had given me to get the shopping. I had my DSis's hand me down bras and I used to hide them under my clothes when I got undressed at night.

I was bullied at secondary school for a number of years. I tried to ignore it, wrong thing to do. It never stopped. It was agony and the lessons I learnt at home were worse than useless. I used DMs technique of keeping quiet and hoping it would blow over. Yes it blows over...til the next time and all the while you're wondering when it'll kick off again.

I'm feeling particularly drained and raw ATM. I'm hoping to start my counselling next week.

Flowers to you all

onlyfortoday · 11/05/2014 21:00

Hello ladies,
I am a regular but I have nc because after I finish writing this, I might still want to pretend it's someone else's story and not mine. I'm embarrassed by it and I'm baffled as to why I feel like this, but it's definitely embarrassment I feel. My lovely DH lost his DM quite young and recently his DF as well and hearing him reminiscing about the happy childhood he's had and the loving marriage of his DP has made me think more and more about my own upbringing (this sounds so selfish but it's not meant like that IYSWIM). I need to get this out and I am hoping it might help to heal - I have been convincing myself for years nothing was wrong and I was just an odd child and lately the truth has hit me in the face and punched me in the stomach. Long and boring post alert.
My mum and dad did not and do not have a happy marriage, they didn't marry for love and they didn't marry for money so tbh I got no clue why they married. I am scared to ask because the resentment they've both been building might come out and make me pity them and I don't want to. I think they married to fit in the society (quite traditional Catholic families). My mum's parents strongly disagreed with the boy she was in love with and they were in general horrible bullies who educated their kids by beating them. On my dad's side, my nan is the loveliest human being I've ever known but a very weak character and my grandad is a stubborn tight man who always had it his way, but deep down not a bad person. So my mum and dad knew eachother but how they actually decided to get married and spend the rest of their lives together I cannot comprehend. Their wedding picture is unreal, they all have faces like thunder and on top of that it's taken on a wet grim November day - so much so I knew something was not right ever since I was a child, I used to love going through the family albums, but that photo sent chills down my spine.
Then I came along after just one year and my mum (from what I know) had a difficult birth and my dad refused to come to see me because I was a girl and not a boy (I heard this from my mum's mum so I'm not 100% sure it's true). I spent a few months with my mum who had no milk to breastfeed me and then she went back to work and my grandparents from my dad's side brought me up until I was 7 yrs old and it was time to go to school, when I finally went to live with my parents. These 7 years were idyllic and I was my nan's little precious gem. I used to see my mum and dad at the weekends when they came down at my grandparents, in the countryside. I haven't got many memories with them, apart from my mum rushing to change me into clean pressed clothes when she got there (I was probably covered in mud from playing etc). Even when my parents were there, I still spent all day with my nan or my friends who came to play in the gardens or in a little wooden den I had. I do remember crying my eyes out when I had to move with them and start school. After that, we'd still come down to my grandparents every weekend and I'd spend every holiday with them until I finally left for uni. I loved these holidays and I had fantastic times with a fantastic bunch of friends. I was free and happy and in the same time terrified before my parents were coming down because I knew they will, they must find something wrong and tell me off.
I got no memories of Santa, apart from the one I've seen at nursery when my nan used to take me to the Christmas play. My mum and dad would always openly put the presents under the tree. Some years I only got a few chocolates and oranges (we weren't poor). When my friends asked what I got, I made up things. For my birthday, I got a pair of pyjamas every year (because I "needed" them), socks and pants. Nowadays, I refuse to wear/own pyjamas. I had lots of clothes, toys etc. and I was allowed to go shopping on my own when I was about 12, but I never understand why couldn't I get a nice, exciting birthday/Christmas present like my friends.
They never told me they love me, I never told them. They never hugged me, I once made an attempt to hug my dad and he pushed me away (it was after I run up a bill on the landline by voting for something or calling a dodgy number, I don't remember exactly, I was 10-11 - I confessed before the bill came and I thought he will go mad, but he didn't). My mum sometimes kissed me, I never kissed them. I was never punished and I think my dad slapped me twice and pulled my hair once, but I was called names, mainly incompetent, dumb, idiot. I wasn't, I was a bit of air head sometimes, granted, but I was an intelligent kid, always first in my class, finished with straight A's and winning prizes at literatury and history essays national competitions. I was congratulated, but not too much in case it gave me a big head. I was never made to feel worthy which came to bite me in the ass big time.
When I hit the teenage years, all I wanted to do is rebel against them. I had a boyfriend which they hated because he was too working class but (not surprisingly I suppose) I was grateful he had eyes for me. I stuck to him for 2 years and it wasn't the best of relationships, he pretty much ruled over me and I did everything to please him but towards the end, I think he fell really hard for my innocence and turned into a lamb and I got bored and I dumped him. I then had another boyfriend who I was besotted with and he was besotted with me, I wanted to get married and have kids. We were way too young and I think I scared him off, after about 2 years he started to pull away and I started to get needy, he started cheating on me and I turned desperate. It ended and it broke my heart and it shattered my confidence. My mum heard me sobbing and she told me that if this affects my exam she will never live down the shame. My dad mocked me for wanting to be a wife subdued to her husband (I didn't) and told me how I'll end up beaten up and carrying 3 kids after me. I passed my exams with flying colours and off I went to uni. I chose a notorious hard one to get into and I did. All throughout the exams I kept being told by my parents that I will fail and shame them and I'm a good for nothing. Looking back, I think their vanity was speaking through. After I took my exams, my mum literally dragged me for a holiday to see her brother (abroad) in which I didn't want to go - I spent two weeks in a foreign country where she point blank refused to allow me to have pocket money. I walked up and down the streets in August without being able to buy an icecream. She said if I need anything to ask her. I've never felt so humiliated. I don't know why she did it. I was used to having my own pocket money since I was 10 (my dad's idea). It was like she was finally using her power over me.
My one and only desire was to have my own little studio flat (I wasn't being unreasonable, we weren't poor, I'm an only child and I was going to get a job). Having my own little place had truly been my dream. I was instead taken to an old couple (family friends but not close ones) and they've been asked (out of the blue for them, but my parents must have been concocted this move for ages) to have me as a lodger. They politely refused saying they have their own habits (they were well into their 70s) and not a very big flat and they don't want anyone living with them. When we come out of their flat and got into the car, my parents flew in a fit of rage and screamed at me the old couple refused to take me because I was such a horrible, dirty, bad mannered girl. I think that was their frustration and shock at being refused coming out and being taken out on me. I then got put into student accommodation (where I won a paid for place anyway) and took me one year to get my own place and get an absolutely fantastic job (not blowing my own trumpet, but it was the kind of job people with 10-15 years of experience get) - it was half luck and half effort. Prior to getting my job, my dad made a point of telling me every time we spoke I'm a lazy layabout (I was studying full time and it was my first year of uni) and I'm a selfish brat to expect them to support me (they were giving me the bare minimum, I had a merit student grant) and generally a waste of space. My mum got the hump with me calling all the time (I called every other day because I missed home or anything to do with home for that matter) and coming home too often, she thought I wasn't adapting. I was very proud of my job, I don't remember getting a well done from my parents though.

onlyfortoday · 11/05/2014 21:00

For the next couple of years I had a string of very short failed flings in which I was desperately looking for reassurance and desperately trying to please the men I liked while always thinking I'm not pretty enough, nice enough etc for them and they will never want anything serious with me - and surprise, surprise they didn't. The last one did though, he was a control freak and EA who wanted to treat me as a child. I fell for it, looking for a father figure. I moved away with him and I wasn't allowed to see anyone, have any friends, he used to lock me in the house when he went away and generally act like I was 12 (bit sick now looking back). Tmi, but there was a lot of spanking in the bedroom, so you see the pattern. The only good that came out of it is that I stopped trying to please my parents and I stopped talking to them as much, I was too busy in my relationship.
I don't know where I found the strentgh, but I left him, moved to London, reconnected with my now DH (which I'd met through work before) and the rest is history. He is the most amazing, lovely, funny, special man, my soul mate and my best friend and my first taste of normality. He understands me and my needy moments, he reassures me without being patronising, he makes me feel superwoman. I still have moments when I think I'm not good enough for him. I sometimes treat him like I've been treated, never appreciating the good things and picking holes. I don't want to do it, but I do and I need to stop and I don't know how. I don't want children because I think I will make the same mistakes as my parents, but sometimes I feel broody and I just fight it back. I still speak to my parents now and I know I am still under the spell, still looking for the "well-done" which never came. They are still telling me now that I am going to fail in my new projects. If I ask them why they do it, they change the subject and they end the conversation (mostly over the phone, they live abroad).

Anyway, this is my story. I doubt anyone had the patience to read it but I feel so much better for telling it. Thank you ladies

Hissy · 11/05/2014 21:17

I read it onlyfortoday and want to say how happy I am that inspite of their best efforts, you weren't broken, didn't give up and now have the life you really do deserve.

I hope that you can come back to this tread and accept the love, support and understanding that I think you'll find so helpful!

onlyfortoday · 11/05/2014 21:22

Thank you hissy it means a lot
I'm still here, just sobbing my heart out

GoodtoBetter · 11/05/2014 21:31

I read it too. I'm so glad you found your DH, he sounds like a good man and a good match for you.
Welcome to the thread, I hope you'll find it a helpful, comforting place as I have. xx

Hissy · 11/05/2014 21:34

If you need to cry love, cry! It is sad, and you shouldn't have had all that crap.

You have a right to every one of your feelings, you earned the right to feel sad (wholly insufficient word for what you're feeling, I know)

The realisation of all of this is excruciating, but now you'll start to unravel the loose ends, and you will grow from this.

Could you try some therapy? A safe place to talk about it all? Sure it'll be snot and tissues for a while, but in time, it will get easier.

Xx

onlyfortoday · 11/05/2014 21:48

I don't think therapy is the solution for me, at least not now, I am so, so embarrassed to admit all this. I can't even tell my DH and I tell him everything. I tried to write this post so many times and I couldn't, until I had the idea to nc. I have lived believing I was a difficult child and a disappointment to my parents so I don't know if I am ashamed to admit what I wrote above because deep down I still think it was my fault. This thread is a godsend for me and I will follow it closely and hope for some healing.

Dirtypaws · 11/05/2014 22:36

Bless you only. Please don't feel ashamed! Welcome.

Dirtypaws · 11/05/2014 22:49

I often wonder about all the people who have normal upbringings. How does that feel? Does it automatically make them happier? Do they have good relationships throughout their lives? I know that the answer is usually yes but I am still rally curious about happy childhoods. Well probably jealous actually. It's so alien.

Last weekend I could hear the next door neighbours having a BBQ party. My immediate thought was, how nice, probably having family and a few freinds around. I would struggle with that. And what about just dropping in on family? Just asking a favour or offering help? In fact, I've moved hundreds of miles away and now I'm thinking ive made the right choice. Doesn't stop it from hurting that I can't drop in, but even if I lived just down t'road I couldn't just do that.

onlyfortoday · 11/05/2014 23:01

hi dirtypaws
The only close example I can give is my DH who had a good childhood and he is a better person than I am - for a start he only sees the good in people or let's just say he sees the good before the bad (unlike me) and gives everyone the benefit of the doubt (again unlike me). He is affectionate without being suffocating IYSWIM and tells me he loves me 10 times a day (I struggled to say it at the beginning but OK now) - he speaks to family (his family) and ends every phone call with "love you"/"lots of love" etc, something I could never do. He is confident and generally a sunny personality. It makes me jealous (in a good way) but I;m grateful to have him, in the same time I know I could never be like him.

onlyfortoday · 11/05/2014 23:17

Because you mention wondering... I think we all wonder why don't we? Why did they do it? Why would you cast a shadow over the entire life of your child and why would you abuse your own flesh and blood? My guess with my parents is that they didn't know any better and they never had any affection from their parents and they resented me for keeping them together in an unhappy marriage. Do they ever sit there and say "actually I have been out of order to my child" or "I regret calling her incompetent"?
Do they even care? I was on the phone with my mum yesterday, she asked how I was and before me giving her an answer she started talking about herself, asking rhetorical questions or answering them herself; so much so I started rattling fruits names to see if she is listening to anything I'm saying. Went through apple, coconut, raspberry, pineapple and cherries with not a single second pause in her tirade. Oh and before passing me the phone, my dad warned me not to moan as that would upset her. I never ever moan!

Appletini · 12/05/2014 07:44

I often wonder about all the people who have normal upbringings. How does that feel? Does it automatically make them happier? Do they have good relationships throughout their lives? I know that the answer is usually yes but I am still rally curious about happy childhoods. Well probably jealous actually. It's so alien.

This, totally. I wish I knew. I'm really jealous. I don't know many people who did, though.

GoodtoBetter · 12/05/2014 12:23

So, it's my dm's birthday today. I think she was put out that we went to the beach and so missed our usual Sunday yday. (But who knows?)
Saw her today Mum for her birthday. Got the kids to wish her happy b'day by phone before school and then took her for bfast after nursery drop off. Gave her a framed pic of the kids I'd had done before xmas (professional photography) and a matching candle holder. She seemed to like it, although did start to cry, saying it was beautiful
Went for bfast for an hour or so and talked a bit about bits and bobs, all fine. Then as we left, she started crying again, would I tell her what I get for DD's bday (on Weds). So, said I'd bring DD round briefly before nursery on weds (se lives opposite the nursery and she can give her the present (haven't bought it yet) herself. Was crying saying thank you "for taking me out" and for getting kids to ring me "wasn't expecting that". I'm not sure what that's all about. I said I'd have taken her out for coffee with kids but it's a school day and I have work. So....who knows? I can't work her out. but I've done my bit, seen her, given her a nice present and spent some time with her, but on my terms.