Compromised - Wrong decision?

[NachoAddict]

So background - Last year dp and his sister had a row about wether the kids should play outside or be allowed to play on their ds. I wasn't involved but sil started telling me that letting ds play his DS was lazy parenting. I took her meaning to be in general ie letting him have a DS is lazy parenting so I replied, well you do things your way and I do things mine. DP decided we were leaving so off we went.

Next day I went round as usual to drop off ds with MIL while I went to work. (MIL and SIL live together)MIL stated giving me a lot of verbal abuse over the argument because apparently I told DP what to say before we went and I control his thoughts.

She told me if I don't do as I am told in their house I can take my fucking kids and fuck off. (I have a detailed thread about it on AIBU, I think it was called WIBU to change my childcare)

So anyway fast forward 9 or so months and that is exactly what I did. I haven't seen or spoken to either of them since, neither have any of my dc. DP maintains contact with them.
It became quite a sticking point between dp and I as he really wants his ds (my youngest) to have a relationship with his mum and I so far have said no chance until she apologises.
It had become such an issue between us that earlier this week I fully intended to separate from dp and ask him to leave.
Last night we had a very honest open chat. He admits that none of it was my fault and his mum was in the wrong. He also says he has given them hell for it over the last 9 months but he knows his mum and she won't back down. Ever. He broke down in tears and told me how its tearing him apart that his son wont know his mum. He fully understands why I hold the view I do but if I was to change my mind it would be for him and not her.

So seeing how much it means to him I have agreed yo compromise, he can take ds round once or twice a month when the other dc are with their dad, on the condition that he doesn't push it for every week which is how often we would visit together as a family before this.

So have I done the right thing? i have basically given her the message she can treat me how she likes but I Have never seen dp so upset.

Just too add dp was out of work cor a couple of months before Christmas and could have quiet easily taken ds down here while I was at work but he didn't as he says he was fully supporting my decision.

I mean he's siding with her by being upset at you isn't he? No matter what he says he is making you responsible for her behaviour. I disagree that this isn't his fault at all either. If his mother was not damaging she would be app hiding and trying to take steps to fix the problem she caused. His solution is to give her what she demands which in this case is another one of his children to emotionally abuse.

*Apologising

The last few posts are exactly what I already think and what I have been saying on repeat for nine months.

My problem is this... If I say no as I have been, we argue about it, over and over and over, even though he knows I am right he cant help himself because she's 'my mum'. So there is no way to move forward we are at a dead end. So we either split up in which case he can take ds every week for as long as he likes, leaves him with her alone, lets her take him out etc. Or I back down a little, she gets contact but I am still pretty much in control, I can keep it to a minimum, 4-6 hours a month of contact supervised by dp which whilst not ideal is better than unsupervised and be ause I have backed down it keeps dp on my side and more likely to nip any sly comments in the bud. He hates his ex so turns a blind eye to any slighting of her.

So I am torn between two un ideal situations, unless anyone has any suggestions. I really would appreciate it.

So he would rather split up with you, and no longer live with his son, than be prepared to actually put either of your welfare before that of his mother?

Then you have much bigger problems than this, and ones that won't be resolved by your letting him take your son for a dose of anti-mum emotional abuse twice a month.

If this is honestly what you think then is be divorcing him now while your son is tiny and moving to the other end of the country, to be honest!

I do think it is a bit of a fallacy that he would be able to take your son to her whenever he wanted if you split. You would surely maintain that your son was to have no contact with her and that his contact times were about him having a relationship with your son and that if he made it about his relationship with his mother then his contact would be restricted because he was failing to protect your son from harm?

Currently while ds has no contact with MIL she has no basis to apply for contact of her own too. If you allow contact you may give her a right to apply for contact of her own.

Bruno he wouldn't want to split up but I can't live with the stress of having the same row once a week. Its not fair on anyone to live in that kind of tension.

I would say that there was to be no contact still if we split up but I can't see him sticking to it. Would a court be on my side if I tried to restrict contact? I just assumed not.

"So we either split up in which case he can take ds every week for as long as he likes, leaves him with her alone, lets her take him out etc".

If you spilt I would involve a contact centre re contact, no informal arrangement should be done. I doubt very much that scenario would happen actually because his main aim here is to keep up his relationship with his son. Also grandparents have no automatic rights to see their grandchildren in this country.

BTW never assume anything.

"Or I back down a little, she gets contact but I am still pretty much in control, I can keep it to a minimum, 4-6 hours a month of contact supervised by dp which whilst not ideal is better than unsupervised and be ause I have backed down it keeps dp on my side and more likely to nip any sly comments in the bud. He hates his ex so turns a blind eye to any slighting of her"

If you back down you basically undo all the progress you have made. If she cannot behave civilly around you then she does not get to see you or your child. End of. She has still not apologised nor has accepted any responsibility for her actions and she will not do so either. The problem also here is your man; he is so much in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) to her that he cannot or will not see that he will also do his own bit of harm here by exposing your child to her. Your job amongst many here is to protect your son from such malign influences. He is just handing her more power because she expects him to back down and he has tried that by getting you to back down. He cannot control what she says and any sly comments from her will likely go unnoticed by him.

No-one can really tell you for sure what would happen in court but the court has a duty to consider the child's welfare when making a contact order. They normally use the following as a basic non exhaustive list;

"Section 1(3) of the Children Act 1989
The Welfare Checklist
...a court shall have regard in particular to -
(a) the ascertainable wishes and feelings of the child concerned (considered in the light of his age and understanding);
(b) his physical, emotional and educational needs;
(c) the likely effect on him of any change in his circumstances;
(d) his age, sex, background and any characteristics of his which the court considers relevant;
(e) any harm which he has suffered or is at risk of suffering;
(f) how capable each of his parents, and any other person in relation to whom the court considers the question to be relevant, is of meeting his needs;
(g) the range of powers available to the court under this Act in the proceedings in question."

IMO if you are making a reasonable offer of contact they may well not even consider it important to make an order at all and I think it is unlikely that under an application for contact with him a court would uphold his insistence that he be allowed to take them to his mum. Especially if your behaviour has been consistent with protecting ds from the abuse you say he is likely to suffer and he has no relationship with MIL.

Gathering evidence and keeping ds away from MIL will help.

And He hates his ex so turns a blind eye to any slighting of her - presumably he loves his child though and he should be expecting respect from his mother for her sake as well as for the sake of basic human decency.

Hi OP, what a horrible situation. PPs who are wiser about this than me have made some great suggestions. I just couldn't help noticing that you say that your DP "hates" his ex - seems to me that this is exactly the situation your nasty MIL wants, and she's currently playing every nasty manipulative card she can to create the same state of affairs between her DS and you. As far as she is concerned, she is The Mother, and the women who have birthed her grandchildren should be disposed of as quickly as possible.

Sorry if said already, but he is not your son alone. It's of both of you. And the child should not be allowed to be a pawn between you and the MIL

So, I'd let him go, as you agreed with your OH.

In fact I could be enough of a bitch to tag along too, so I could actually have an eye on how she behaves with DS.
I bet that would really annoy her. :)

If it will settle the argument about MIL seeing your DS, why don't you agree to meet her somewhere neutral for an hour or 2 every few weeks? You, DH and DS. That way, you are offering contact and being reasonable. MIL would look petty to complain about this but it means you aren't in her house so you don't have to 'do as your told' and you can keep an eye on what's happening?

Tbh I think that suggestion would be stretching my generosity if I was in your position but it means you keep control, are compromising with DH and can make sure MIL doesn't try to manipulate your DS.

The idea of going with is not such a bad one. It is dsd's birthday party tomorrow which I am invited too but had assumed dp would go without me. That would be a good start, she wouldn't dream if causing trouble at the party.

Blue They have always been pally to his ex's face and have infact been round each others houses all the time since we fell out. They are providing references for her to foster 2 children in fact, no doubt so that when she struggles, they can be super helpful and take dsd more so she has one less to worry about.

She told you to take your fucking kids and fuck off. She spoke about your kids like that. She hasn't apologised, or changed and after 9 months hasn't been bothered. Yet your DH is upset his son isn't going to know her?!
Why would he want too!?
'It's my mum' isn't an excuse. That's his son and his mother spoke about him like that.

I'm pissed on your behalf op

I know MommyBird I won't even pretend I understand. Although he says she obviously didn't mean it? I don't know where he got that information from.

To be totally honest I don't think for one minute that when she said 'take your kids and fuck off' that she was referring to ds. I know that she meant my eldest two children. I would never ever take them there again, nothing on this earth would make me reconsider that one. That's why he would only be allowed to go when they are at their dads.

Can you put it to him that his mum, through her refusal to apologize is deliberately jeopardizing your marriage and your family, because she has cut you out of her life and told her grandchild to fuck off? There is no point in him crying to you, or appealing to you, as the ball is in fact in her court? As long as she is refusing to mend the relationship she tore apart, then there is nothing you can, or will do. And if he keep banging on about this, it will mean the end of your relationship, because you cant take any more.

I think you need to be there because your DP has shown that despite saying he agrees with you, he has still emphasised that 'its his mum' and is doing everything, to the point of splitting up with you, to allow her to have her own way without any apology to you.
Do you actually think it is likely that he will tell you that she said these 'subtle' insults about you, knowing that it will mean the end of contact and reverting back to the same situation.

Id be tempted to get him to say that you will be going to DSD birthday, but that you will be expecting a quiet apology on arrival. And I would make it clear that it was a precursor to any future contact, where you WILL be present, and you WILL stop that contact if she ever pulls the same kind of stunt again. Put the responsibility firmly back where it belongs and find out once and for all whether its true that DP is on your side, or is just telling you he is.

But she still said that about 2 innocent children. Who have done nothing wrong.

I would do exactly what NettleTea has said.
He agrees with you.. 'but its my mum' isn't an excuse to treat you and the children however she wants too.

Tell DH that if she pulls another stunt like that, game over. This is her last chance.

I would go that party, i'd want an apology and i'd make it very clear, that if she acts like that again, i will cut contact.

She hasn't fixed anything, she hasn't done anything to salvage the relationship. She told you to fuck off she should be saying sorry!

Even if she said it tho, she wouldn't mean it.

If you try to male him choose sides both of you lose.

You need to be the bigger person here.

You don't have to go to her house, although I would because I would throw her game on its head.
Whether your dc goes or not, should be your oh's decision as well. Unless you have reason to believe that the child will be harmed.

If you let her drive you and your oh apart, you are playing into her hands.

Whether you stay together or not should be because of him and you, not her.

I also like the idea of meeting with the DS somewhere neutral or at my home. She would probably refuse, but you'd be the one making bridges, not cutting them.

The more reasonable you are, the more unreasonable she looks, even to your OH.

She does believe her child will be harmed...

I would never put my child at risk in order to not lose my relationship is think that's a really dubious piece of advice.

I don't think it would be really harmed, tbh, if it's all about digs at the mother. Not for a couple of hours every two weeks.

To me it sounds more like a personal issue and I'd be checking myself very carefully.

And I wouldn't put my relationship at risk to play into the hands of someone doing her best to do so.
Open confrontation like this is only likely to make the oh choose sides. And I doubt most of us would prevent out children seeing our parents over a similar event.

I absolutely would and am stopping my dc from being around my EA dad and it isn't just the incident but the emotional abuse of dsd which her DP has allowed to go on because he hates his ex.

Emotional abuse is just as damaging as physical abuse. It's true the ds is too little for it to matter hugely right now but it's also true that seeing his gran should be about what she has to offer him not placating DP who has failed to protect his dd.

I do think it would be a good idea to help your OH detach from his mother, but apart from his own issues it seems that he may be somewhat stuck because of his DD. Do you have her at your home often?
Could he ask for custody and visits to her mother if she's not that involved?
This would allow him to create distance from his mother.
He could also have counselling.

Reading back, the issue of creating a us and them mentality is important, but I think you need to find solutions for this as a couple and talking, rather than being driven by your feelings towards his mother.

If this was a work colleague you'd still have to find ways and strategies to work with her. At the moment I think that's what you should do. Preferably as a couple.