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Not had sex for almost two years

801 replies

Olliedelondon · 21/04/2014 14:03

I very much love my DW. Before we had our two children, we had a reasonable sex life, although I would always initiate. But since our children we have had very little sex (once every four months maybe) and nothing at all for now almost two years. My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children. But I think it's destroying our marriage and I'm not prepared to sacrifice a sex life and frankly don't see why I should. I also don't think she fancies me. At all. Am I unreasonable? What should I do? I have 'got by' by using pornography in secret. I have also started fantasising about attractive colleagues, although I have never had an affair. The sexual frustration I feel is almost painful...Help?

OP posts:
antiabz · 22/04/2014 21:40

Don't get offended honey that comment was tongue in cheek ( hence the Wink face)

But you have to admit the examples on this thread are a tad wimpy. Poor op has stuck around for two years!

And Daniel has to use hookers Grin

22honey · 22/04/2014 21:42

Simplesusan, the only issue I have with anything in that post is nowhere at all does it mention anything about making the male partner in the relationship feel special, have time to himself, be able to go on fun outings with friends etc etc. No mention of the fact the man might be knackered and feeling neglected aswell from working all week and being a parent at the same time. A working parent doesn't stop being a parent.

That's the problem I have with the post though, and I find the concept rather sexist and offensive, that a father doesn't need leisure time to himself or to relax or have fun like a mother does, no, he is just a financial and practical tool to the lives of the wife and children who should work and bend over backwards for everyone else whilst forgoing any need he may ever have had until he inevitably crumbles to an early stroke or heart attack

Maisie0 · 22/04/2014 21:57

DontLookNowTheresABearBehind That is not called sex, but it's called romance ! Smile

Sex is sex. Love is love. Making love is not the same as having sex.

How can you turn on the affection when there has been a cold war for a while ? He needs to slowly take charge again and let her relax, destress from being a mother and refocus on a more balanced way of parenting.

I read most of this thread and I find it interesting, well and also quite surprising at some comments made too.

  • Never compare your wife with your exes. There surely is a reason why you ended with your exes to marrying your wife. Be truthful now.
  • Men always assume that a woman will not change after she becomes a wife, or that she will never change at all once married. But then the husband changes and put her as not the priority but put work, or businesses above that of her. So how can that work if the dynamic has changed? The couple has to change with it. Blame shifting is not fair.
  • How can the OP does not even know why his wife married him? I find that bizarre to know. If you cannot be friends first and know one another, then why did you get married ? Where is the emotional intimacies gone ? Please do not tell me that you married because you were on the rebound, or that you were lonely because then it is never fair on the woman, especially if she saw you as "forever".
  • If your wife does not want you to hire a nanny or babysitter, then consider hiring an extra headcount on the business and relieve some of your 60 hours a week working time, so that you can do some of the parenting too and relieve the stress from your wife.
  • Parenting takes two. It is not and should not be down to one person. A child needs a father figure as well as a mother figure too. Also be mindful, and never accept defeat. It is a continuous learning curve. The first time your child rejects your present. The first time your child sulk. You need to know what to do. The first time you need to discipline your child. Or be there to encourage them to eat certain things. The first time you need to learn to say "no" to your own child too. The first time you need to learn to fend off other boys from targetting your child in a playground without hurting the other boys cos you are the older one. Lots of things you need to be there for.
  • An equal partnership means going through the ups and the downs together. If you maybe also take an active role now in the parenting then maybe your wife can also help you later on when the business matures a little bit and the children are off to school in a regular routine. It goes both ways. She is at her most vulnerable now. Having had kids, and now need to look after her own health to bring it up to a good level, as well as to be there for the children. I dare say she may trust you with the children more than she will trust other external helps. So be an active partner in this too.
  • Forget all the future planning when you have not planned the pregnancy to the growth of the children yet. How can there be a family for the money to be spent on when the cracks are showing now in the family life ?
  • How can you have a "good relationship" when you work 60 hours a week ? If the children are there happy and say good night to you, do not forget that there is someone there who prepped them to be happy, and someone there to encourage them to reach that stage. You cannot claim the results when you have not put in the efforts. That is not fair on your wife.
  • Have you ever talked to your wife about having a business to begin with ? What does she say ? Shouldn't she have a say on things in both of your lives when you guys only have such a finite amount of time in your life time such that, well, it does not seem to be able to balance everything at the moment.

Do you realised that you are now in a "cold war" situation ? If you want to turn around things then you got to step up and focus on the children too and become the father of the children and let your wife be proud of you also in that area. So that she too can relax and realised she also need to look after herself too. She cannot let go until she knows her children are safe. If you step up, then she can relax a little bit and be reassured too. Decisions that affect the family should be discussed.

I would approach it this way first.
1- tackle the children rearing stress and problems.
2- create an open communication channel and dialogue slowly with the wife.

I would not talk about the sex thing for a while first until she relaxes more. She will find you more attractive if you can learn to build up the trust between herself and you again.

whodhavethunkit · 22/04/2014 21:59

^THIS^

22honey speaks sense

whodhavethunkit · 22/04/2014 22:00

cross posted with Maisie0 I meant to refer to what 22honey said

Keepithidden · 22/04/2014 22:00

The problem is, if you love someone then simply giving up on them is a bit more difficult than just saying "go find someone who can fufil your needs". Add in the whole child birth, parenting shit and it makes things far more complex: ie is it a short/medium term thing, or is it for life?

Those are the issues I've been struggling with for years. Its not easy to stop loving someone, and dumping a young family on the basis of sexual selfishness seems a bit... ...morally bankrupt!

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 22/04/2014 22:06

That's exactly what I was thinking 22honey. Yet again it seems to be the husband having to earn intimacy.

I think we all know that in a relationship you should be nice to each other, it's hardly news. But we are not stepford husbands and wives.

alphabook · 22/04/2014 22:18

Admittedly I haven't read the entire thread, but I find it interesting that recently a woman posted that she was only having sex with her DH 8 times a year, and the general consensus was that he was selfish and not attentive to her needs (despite his argument being that he has a low sex drive and works very hard including spending lots of time with his children and being a good father). When a man posts saying that his wife is not interested in sex, the general consensus is that she must be tired because he's not doing enough around the house, and he needs to think about doing more housework to make her "want" sex.

22honey · 22/04/2014 22:24

Keepithidden thats why I tend to have sympathy for men who have gone a long time without sex in a relationship, most of them will be good men who do not want to cheat or leave the relationship but are feeling increasingly frustrated, neglected and unhappy. I don't think its fair to expect anyone to put up with no intimacy (he said she wont even give him a kiss for crying out loud!) for several years.

And yes whatsthat, I really cannot imagine a thread where a woman isn't getting any sex or intimacy and is miserable being infiltrated with replies she should organise a lads night out for him, pay for him to go to a football match, cook and clean for him etc etc in the hope of getting a mere kiss on the cheek. Such suggestions would be laughed off the thread.

Sallystyle · 22/04/2014 22:25

22honey said everything I wanted to say but a million times better.

Fantastic posts.

22honey · 22/04/2014 22:29

alphabook it seriously comes across to me as a very glass half empty attempt at manipulating a man to do more housework. It would be rather odd imo for anyone to reward their OH for doing housework with sex. lol.

WaitingForMe · 22/04/2014 22:29

Surely if one partner suggests counselling and the other rejects it, pretty much everything is said right there.

If I told DH I was unhappy with our relationship and he wasn't keen to try to improve things then I'd be ending the marriage. The root of my unhappiness wouldn't be relevant.

Keepithidden · 22/04/2014 22:37

Depends how you view counselling Waiting. When I suggested it the assumption was it was an automatic precursor to divorce. Not an attempt at communicating better.

FastLoris · 22/04/2014 22:39

whatsthatcomingoverthehill -

But I see time and time again on here that if there is a sexless marriage it must be because the husband isn't putting the effort in around the home. It does equate doing housework with getting sex and sounds very much like a reward culture. It is also presented as something the wife does for the husband, rather than a mutual thing. How fucked up is that? I am in a sexless marriage (not my choice), but there is no way that I'd want my wife to have sex with me because she feels she ought to, or to reward me for taking the kids out for the day and cooking her a nice meal. That would make me feel like a charity case.

I want sex to be something we do together and for each other. I'd rather not have it if it's one sided. I don't pay for sex outside my marriage, how much worse would it be to feel like you are paying for it inside a relationship?

I can HUGELY relate to this post, and I think it captures one of the problems with these situations from a male POV extremely well.

It's difficult once you start thinking about what you need to to FOR you wife IN ORDER for her to have sex with you. For a start, that's not the way sex usually works at the beginning of a relationship. The perception at least is that the sex ITSELF is there to be satisfying for both partners. If one partner isn't getting anything from it, then you have a problem. But if both partners find it agreeable as a thing in itself, then once a shag is over it's over. It's not a contract you've signed outlining a great long list of debts you've accrued by it.

Unfortunately I do think it can sometimes happen, when sex at the beginning is NOT particularly enjoyable for one partner, that they are not honest about it and pretend it's better than it is. Maybe that's all part of "getting" a marriage partner, I don't know. It sometimes seems to be a way of getting children, and then once that partner has the children the sex has served its purpose and doesn't need to be endured any more. By the sound of things, this might be the case with the OP's wife.

But the problem with talking about how the sex might rekindle "if only you did X... Y.... Z.... etc." is that it's self defeating. We don't want our wives to begrudgingly have sex with us in return for some other favour external to the sex itself. We want them to WANT us, to want sex with us AS A THING IN ITSELF, the way we want it and the way they used to want it (or, as above, sometimes maybe the way they used to pretend to want it).

So even if it were to work, and after two weeks of the most dutiful housework, childcare and provision of time off, sex were then available, it would feel like we'd earnt some kind of tit-for-tat reward, rather than like we had a wife who actually wanted us. And that's not the point in the first place.

I think this is a dangerous road to go down. You have to try and understand the pressure on a woman bringing up kids, understand how things have changed, the workload has increased etc. and both do your best to support each other through that. But tying all that up with sex seems very dodgy to me. If someone can't be sexual with someone else with some degree of openness, freedom and spontaneity, and if they need to see it as an item on one side of a ledger sheet that has all these implications for all the items on the other side - then they're better off not doing it at all.

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep · 22/04/2014 22:45

Not read all the replies but its so funny how on Mumsnet a male poster will get such different responses to a female one.

No sex for 2 years is ridiculous.

Honest heart to heart talks, counselling or divorce.

Offred · 22/04/2014 22:49

Have you missed that he is lying? They have a 9 month old baby but he claims not to have had sex for 2 years. Hmm

More likely he means they aren't having as much sex as he would like since his wife had two dc very close together and a difficult birth.

If you read the thread you would see that people are suggesting focusing more on his family responsibilities might help because he has made the unilateral choice to work long hours so he can achieve things he feels are important, leaving his wife no choice but to cover the childcare.

If it is not that they are just incompatible you could see how that lack of consideration and that unilateral decision making might make her feel angry and resentful if she was previously quite social and had a high flying job. She also had a difficult birth only 9 months ago. After my twins I bled for 6 months she may very well not feel physically up to it...

Anyway, we can't give him answers only his wife can but it is reasonable to suggest based on the information he has given, and not on him being a man, that reducing his hours/talking to her about whether she wants help or school fees might help her feel attracted to him.

The stuff about previous gfs grated on me too.

If you have only given her one orgasm in 8 years despite enthusiasm op then I think this is much more likely to be because you've not found how to get her off - this is not a problem with her but I suspect a massive reason why she isn't that interested in sex. What about it would she enjoy enough to get over the stress of everything else if she's basically just expected to allow you to put your cock in her till you orgasm and not given an orgasm herself?

Maisie0 · 22/04/2014 22:52

I do not understand why others are thinking that doing the house work equates to sex. I thought that it was obvious that he is buying her emotional intimacies. Sometimes talking is not enough, but acting and actioning on what you promise and deliver is more accountable and trustworthy in the eyes of the other person.

If you know that your partner dislike other people interfereing with your relationship and do not trust others without guilt tripping them and so forth. Would you go ahead and book counselling for the sake of it ? What will that do ? To let another 3rd or 4th part to judge what is private ?

To me, I learn by going through the same action as my partner. For me to truly get something, my partner cannot actually just tell it to me, but he has to make me feel it too. Different people react differently. It seems to be that the OP's wife may be a little bit more sensitive, but I do not get why they withheld sex for that long and why did he even propose to someone he seems to hardly know. Well, now is the time to start to learn and get to know his wife before he loses her.

Alphabook I have not read the other thread. So I cannot comment. My comment is really to summarise what many other posters have said already, which I thought was very common-sensical and very sensible too. I actually was quite surprised by some of the very decent responses from the male posters also in fighting for their own relationship. I also thought that most guys just want to leave when things are tough going. So kudos to them. Very refreshing for me to read that also.

Keepithidden · 22/04/2014 22:53

You're right Loris, I'm not convinced it is even the act itself either. Just the knowledge that you're wanted as a sexual being by someone you want in the same way.

Offred · 22/04/2014 22:55

I mean come on you are complaining that you've not been given an orgasm by her body for 2 years but I reckon she has it much worse if you've only given her one orgasm in 8.

FastLoris · 22/04/2014 23:08

Offred - where do you get the bit about his choice to work long hours being "unilateral" and hers to cover childcare only being because she "had no choice".

That may well be the case, but I didn't see anything to suggest it is. There are plenty of couples who decide together to divide responsibilities that way, and where the woman is perfectly happy with or even the main agent in that decision.

But I may well have missed something so by all means point out what leads you to that conclusion.

hookedonchoc · 22/04/2014 23:14

Hm, I don't know that I agree with the notion that orgasms are handed out by men to women. I do think the wife has some responsibility to discover how to give herself an orgasm also, and it does seem that she just doesn't want to.

However, that said, the comparison to previous girlfriends was crass and the OP hasn't exactly endeared himself to the mothers of Mumsnet with his complete dismissal of how life can be for a mother of two young children with little to no practical or emotional support at home.

Offred · 22/04/2014 23:17

He said he set up a new business and is choosing to work 60 hours so he can save money for school fees because he thinks it is a better investment for the long term. His choice to work 60 hours in reality means she has to look after the dc.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 22/04/2014 23:20

xcept she doesn't seem bothered by that whereas he is. He can't force her to find out what makes her orgasm (apparently she doesn't masturbate). Yet you seem to be saying he is selfish? You are making all sorts of assumptions that are not warranted from what has been said.

We can only judge on what the OP has said himself. Yes there are always two sides to the story, but if the OP is misstating things then ultimately it is him who does not benefit from getting good advice. Too often when a man posts on here it seems like they are treated as some sort of proxy for shit men everywhere.

Offred · 22/04/2014 23:20

Of course she has some responsibility to learn how to give herself an orgasm but we're talking about shared sexual experiences and masturbation aside why is the op entitled to complain about not getting as many orgasms with his wife as he would like but at the same time admit he's only given her one in 8 years and this is her fault?! Rubbish.

Presumably if masturbation was satisfactory for his wife (and it may be) that would have zero effect on the issue of the lack of intimacy and sex between the two of them and he would not have a problem because he could merrily wank away on his own.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 22/04/2014 23:21

(Replying to 22.55 post by offered)

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