Not had sex for almost two years

[Olliedelondon]

I very much love my DW. Before we had our two children, we had a reasonable sex life, although I would always initiate. But since our children we have had very little sex (once every four months maybe) and nothing at all for now almost two years. My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children. But I think it's destroying our marriage and I'm not prepared to sacrifice a sex life and frankly don't see why I should. I also don't think she fancies me. At all. Am I unreasonable? What should I do? I have 'got by' by using pornography in secret. I have also started fantasising about attractive colleagues, although I have never had an affair. The sexual frustration I feel is almost painful...Help?

gamerchick - while I agree that the OP isn't necessarily expressing himself in the best possible light, if someone is not receiving any intimacy whatsoever, not just sex but hugs, cuddles and kisses, after a certain length of time, that will breed a certain amount of self-doubt, feeling unloved, a lack of self-esteem and eventually resentment. That all builds up and if you finally decide to vent or ask others about it, could easily come off in a less good light than might actually be the case.

Sorry, but I DO believe that if your partner no longer wishes to have sex with you the other partner is perfectly at liberty to leave the relationship or marriage. Relationships are supposed to make you happy and feel fulfilled. If you are unhappy and have tried to solve it but things don't improve then leave.

It is not entitled to want to have sex with your spouse. It is entitled to expect to have sex regardless of what is going on in the other person's head/life.

I don't think anyone posting has been simplistic enough to suggest that the OP should help out more at home so that he can be "rewarded" with sex. It isn't a transaction. But pitching in equally to domestic life (the mental work as well as the physical) creates a sense of togetherness and shared enterprise which might pave the way for more affection and intimacy between the OP and his wife.

However if the OP is working long hours, leaving his wife to do the majority of childcare and domestic work, then it is quite possible that she feels like the hired help. And if she feels like an employee, would it be an wonder that she didn't feel like physical intimacy with the OP - how many people (realistically) go to work each day feeling up for shagging their employer?

and despite his protestations about future school fees, it seems to be the OPs CHOICE to work 60 hrs and enjoy lots of fun stuff in doing so.

MrBuster

If she's feeling like that then maybe she needs to explain it to him, rather than saying all their focus should be on the children (which to me sounds very much like "Oh go pester someone else"). If he is a supportive husband then he would of course want his wife to have a life that she feels fulfilled by rather than the drudgery of domestic stuff. They could discuss how best she wants to proceed. But it doesn't sound like she's said any of that.

But I see time and time again on here that if there is a sexless marriage it must be because the husband isn't putting the effort in around the home. It does equate doing housework with getting sex and sounds very much like a reward culture. It is also presented as something the wife does for the husband, rather than a mutual thing. How fucked up is that? I am in a sexless marriage (not my choice), but there is no way that I'd want my wife to have sex with me because she feels she ought to, or to reward me for taking the kids out for the day and cooking her a nice meal. That would make me feel like a charity case.

I want sex to be something we do together and for each other. I'd rather not have it if it's one sided. I don't pay for sex outside my marriage, how much worse would it be to feel like you are paying for it inside a relationship?

(Oh, and to be devil's advocate if you want to talk about a "sense of togetherness and shared enterprise" then shouldn't sex be a deep expression of that? And if one partner decides they don't want sex, doesn't that effect how the other feels about the other aspects of the relationship, such as what they are doing around the home?)

60 hours isn't that many- it's fewer than 9 hours a day (assuming 7 days, as own business), or in fact, what most middle-senior roles do
As the wife had a senior city role previously, she will also have worked those hours. I really don't think the working is the issue here.

What were the reasons for you not having sex prior to agreeing to marry? Probably far more pertinent to the wife's attitude towards sex.

I can see why you wouldn't want to sleep with someone if you were angry at them and felt they they weren't doing their fair share.

But two years! Christ it must be exhausting to have to live with that much resentment and lack of intimacy.

Divorce isn't always a bad thing you know....

What whatsthatcoming said.

In my own marriage, we only ever make love if I initiate, and after years of this being the case, I am fed up of it all being up to me. If left to his own devices, we'd probably only make love a handful of times a year.

To suggest that a the person who wants a healthy sex life should have all the responsibility for maintaining one just absolves the other person from having to do their part. A marriage is a partnership and both sides should be equally invested in the other. Just withdrawing from intimacy, both sexual and non-sexual, without any explanation or desire to find out why you feel that way or to fix things, is not fair. And if it carries on for years, is actually quite cruel.

whodhavethunkit - having been on the receiving end of a sexless relationship, I can't describe how soul destroying it is for the partner who does try, who doesn't want to be with anyone else, to lie next to the person they love and who is supposed to love them but who doesn't want to touch them at all. Who says they love you, they just don't want to be physical or intimate, they've never really enjoyed it with any partner. I was told "surely if you love me, sex doesn't matter?"

Well, I'm sorry, but the difference between room mates and partners is sex and intimacy. If I want a room mate, I'll go into a house share.

Ime, most issues like this one is the expression of a wider problem and not the problem itself iyswim.
No sex is usually the result of a relationship issue with much wider problems, it could be the issue with the number of hours at work the fact he is still having his 'fun times' out of the house, the fact his life has hardly change since the arrival of the dcs whereas hers has dramatically changed. It can be that she has issues with sex even though if this was the case, the OP wouldn't haver said their sex life was OK before the birth of the dcs....

Having worked long hours doesn't mean you are happy to see your DH working long hours when you are isolated and stuck at home with 2 young dcs, after a difficult birth (I have noticed the OP said that the birth was very hard but that now their ds was OK... What about his DW?!? Has she recovered from the birth?).
The reality is that we only have his pov, his version of events so can only tell what he could do and change.
To say what she could do and change, we would need her pov as well.

Also sex and intimacy are two different things. You can be intimate wo sex. Some couples never have sex but are intimate enough that the relationship is OK for both partners, even if not perfect (After all, people who are single can go years wo sex and they still lead a fulfilling life).
You can also have relationships with sex but little intimacy/sharing. Again that works for some people.

ThisIsLID - yes, there are some people for whom a relationship without sex or intimacy is fulfilling. There are some people for whom a relationship without sex but some intimacy is fulfilling. There are some for whom very infrequent but enjoyable sex if fulfilling.

But if one partner is seriously unhappy, you can't expect them to shut up and put up for the rest of their lives. Some people seem to think they should.

Some very helpful comments. Agree with so many comments. If she was a party to this discussion I believe she would say that she gives everything to the children and there is nothing left for me. Also that my life has not changed as much as hers and she probably resents it. Finally, if she was really honest she would probably say she doesn't fancy me on that way. I think that withdrawing from any intimacy (and pre-DC, we hardly did it anyway), is cruel and has caused a huge amount of resentment. I feel very unhappy about this, especially as my frustrations are causing a real deterioration in my marriage. I think I am going to bluntly put my cards on the table tonight...

I do actually feel for you OP. I do think you need to pull your weight in the house more - but that's a bit of a red herring.

Regardless of the reasons, barring a physical/psychosexual problem, anyone that denies their partner/spouse sex for 2 years is cruel. It's like Not New said - if there is no sex, you might as well be housemates.

I think the conversation with your dw will be telling. It's very similar to discussions on here about ed in men - it's whether she is willing to address the issue and do something about it that's important.

Any kind of marriage can be a good marriage if both parties agree that is the best way for them. With sex, without it, whatever. The issue is the mutual decision that this is the way it works best for them and any compromises are the ones they are both happy to make.

The OP doesn't have that. I am getting a sense of frustration coming from his posts that suggest he not only hasn't agreed to the way things are but has absolutely no idea why they are the way they are either. From the sounds of it his wife isn't talking about it or if she is she isn't coming out and naming her grievances and clearing the air, she is in a way, manipulating him. 'I don't want sex because I am too tired' or 'the children should be the focus of our attention now'. There seems to be an awful lot unsaid that she is trying to skirt around and instead tries to make the OP feel bad for wanting more from their marriage. Maybe he hasn't asked the right question yet or maybe things haven't reached rock bottom and the point where even his wife can't carry on as things are but they will have to come to head at some point. I suppose the trick is to bring it a head gently rather than letting the pressure build up so much the whole thing implodes which is seems in danger of doing at the moment.

X post with you there OP. Looks like the pressure is building up.

Try and be kind when you talk to your wife but I wouldn't dress it up either. You have to be honest. You probably know the old trick of saying 'I feel ......' rather than 'You make me.....' to try and make her feel less defensive and therefore more able to open up to you?

Good luck.

Ollie an honest question here.
In your last post you are saying that you hardly had sex before the dcs. But in your first post, you are saying that before dcs, you had a reasonable sex life. Which one is it?
Also that there has been no sex in the last 2 years but your DW still managed to have a child, get pregnant with the second and then give birth again in that time scale.
I might want you to look at these inconsistencies and think if there really has been no sex at all or rather not enough sex, not enough attention for you rather than the dcs (you say she would say she is giving it all to the dcs) etc... Just questions to ask yourself and see if your portrait of the situation is really fair.

By any mean have a chat with your DW but be aware that 'putting your cards on the table' will only mean one thing if you go at it this way (ie I need sex, if we don't have sex 'now' then that's the end)and that's the end of your marriage.
Because whatever the reason your DW has not to have sex (and you seem to have decided it's just because he doesn't fancy you and is being cruel to you), you can't just ask her to have sex like this if she doesn't fancy it.
Or she will say YES, will go through the motions ... but do you really want that?

I said it up thread and I'll say it again that looking after a baby and toddler all day is a total libido killer for many, if not most women.

What about you compromise on one day a week where you have an 'intimate' evening with a focus on nonsexual touching, or non-PIV sex, just to regain a bit of connection without the pressure of saying: "you have to let me shag you this evening the way I want, whether you want to or not, or I'm leaving."

you know that saying "walk a mile in a man's shoes...."

In order to empathise with your wife and what life is like for her right now you need to experience what it is like at home with 2 very small people. Send her off to a Spa overnight and do her job for 48 hours. Then think about why she is not raving when you come in (very late) from work

All your posts come across like a sulky teen who has had the Xbox confiscated. Think about her PLEASE

QuiteSo

Given that she hasn't wanted sex for nearly 2 years (and from the sounds of things only wanted it before to try and conceive), and recoils when he tries to hug her, it's more than having low libido that a bit of time off from the kids and forced intimacy will magically make all OK.

The OP needs to find out from her what the issues are. It may be that she doesn't see there being any issues, she simply doesn't want to have sex any more. That's fine, you can't force yourself to feel something you don't, but at the same time you can't expect a partner to stay in those circumstances.

The thing is, the OP doesn't seem to have talked to his DW in a way that she actually has felt she can explain why she is feeling that way.
At no point has he said 'My DW doesn't feel like sex because xxx. This is what she explained to me when I asked her'.
Rather he said I think she would say that she is all engaged with the dcs etc...
What he thinks is happening (incl the fact she just doesn't like sex) and what she actually thinks are likely to be two different things.

I hope that he will actually ask her rather than assume.

Emily -

He is the bread winner and works 60 hours a week that is an equally importance role in a family. Yes it would be nice for him to do chores a day help with the children but it's like most of you are all making out like he does sod all.

No shit.

The way some of these threads go, we could be forgiven for thinking that hauling your arse off to work every day and doing everything your boss or business requires to maintain a high salary (or, like the OP, taking on the bottom-line stress and responsibility of a new business) is a fucking seaside holiday.

None of this counts for anything towards getting your wife to give you a kiss now and then of course, because only changing nappies and hoovering is hard work. Managing corporate deals and meeting sales targets is just what selfish irresponsible men do for fun all day.

Sounds like she doesn't fancy you and never has. If you've never had that spark I doubt you can create it.

Never ceases to amaze me that people choose to marry people they don't and never have had brilliant sex with.

Looking after two DC all day is boring and exhausting - and yes that is a libido-killer. Breast feeding also causes some women to lose their libido. Going back on the pill - ditto.

Looking back, I was really, really bloody tired for about two years after each DC and I had a decent gap between mine so no overlap of those two years. Has your DW got her figure back? Does she feel self-conscious about her body? Also things that could lead to reluctance in the bedroom. You being out of the house for long hours may be making her feel resentful. As we only have your side of things it's impossible for any of us to say.

If it is just that she doesn't fancy you any more and refuses, point-blank, to discuss it, or have sex with you, then you have a big problem. But I suspect it's much more nuanced than that. After all, this is your wife - the woman you hoped to spend the rest of your life with. Did you start your married life so disillusioned? Could she have PND? Talk to her about it - good idea! But if you want to have a chance of salvaging things, be gentle. As a rule of thumb, comments that start with 'I feel' sound better than ones that take an argumentative line.

Oh God no! Don't offer to send her to a spa! My DH offered that as a birthday present when my non-sleeping DS1 was a yr old. I cried my eyes out. He didn't get that what I wanted was not to be mauled and pummelled all day - I had enough from a baby however lovely he was - but some time to myself. I got a £50 book token and a couple of afternoons to browse bookshops alone instead. Bliss.

Of course, the OP's wife might love it (unlikely since she doesn't seem that keen on physical contact at the moment) but it would be far far better if she got to chose how and when she got some time off. Don't dictate to her, listen.

I still don't think what he does or doesn't do around the house has much bearing on this. This problem pre-dates them having children.

homeb you sound like your attaching a victim mentality to a woman who looks after 2 children, as if that absolves her of any responsibility towards her marriage. Lots of people (and I know them) have more children than this and their relationships are not totally void of sex and intimacy. Its not an excuse.

Its not like the OP is sat on his arse watching TV all day, hes working 60 hours a week, probably to support his family financially. What about his wife thinking about HIM, PLEASE?

I have to agree with plant also that some people do have to accept responsibility when they marry someone completely sexually incompatible when themselves, but it doesn't sound like the case with the OP because he said he was previously satisfied with the sexual side of the relationship even though his DW never initiated and they didn't do it that often. Some people are not particularly bothered about regular on fire sex providing they have some resemblance of a sex life and intimacy. Its a huge difference between going from a non amazing but satisfactory sex life to nothing at all, for years.