Not had sex for almost two years

[Olliedelondon]

I very much love my DW. Before we had our two children, we had a reasonable sex life, although I would always initiate. But since our children we have had very little sex (once every four months maybe) and nothing at all for now almost two years. My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children. But I think it's destroying our marriage and I'm not prepared to sacrifice a sex life and frankly don't see why I should. I also don't think she fancies me. At all. Am I unreasonable? What should I do? I have 'got by' by using pornography in secret. I have also started fantasising about attractive colleagues, although I have never had an affair. The sexual frustration I feel is almost painful...Help?

Treating individual posters as individuals requires treating them differently from other posters

I've been responding to the things he posted as an individual all along. It was not his maleness but his attitude which I objected to as I said all along.

Why exactly are you so keen to attribute the response on this thread to manhating?

I am at a loss as to how you think saying he's being discriminated against because he's a man on a 'female' website is not gender politics on the thread but responding to that accusation by saying gender politics and sexism affect heterosexual relationships to the extent that it is not possible to reverse the genders on this thread and therefore there is no fair comparison is gender politics on the thread.

Seems what is required to treat a male poster as an individual in your mind is never objecting to anything they say...

But that is the point isn't it? You wouldn't go round reversing the genders if a woman posted and telling her to imagine what it is like to be a man. She wouldn't have to put herself in a man's shoes, why anybody would trying to do that here? There is a knee jerk reaction amongst some posters that if a man posts he must be in the wrong. I haven't tried to defend everything he has said either. He has said some things, especially early on that made me wince but then some female posters do too. Frequently. I don't care why that it is, it isn't relevant, it is merely derailing the thread to have a conversation about the ins and outs of it.

This isn't a thread in FWR, its a thread in relationships. I can't see how you don't get that.

I won't be engaging in this conversation any more because this is exactly the sort of irrelevant nonsense that I was trying to avoid.

"What's- is it hitting a raw nerve with you?"
Nope, because it is nothing like my situation. It's just nauseating crap, like how you started off with on this thread.

"So the op can take the sensible advice offered or he can choose to ignore it and suffer ."
What sensible advice exactly? What should he do? Give up his business, and get a (probably much lower paid) job with normal hours, so he can do more around the house? Treat his wife like a 'goddess' even though she's not paying him the slightest bit of attention? And what happens when none of this makes the slightest bit of difference?

But you're the one saying he's being treated differently because he's a man and not because of what he said which you also seem to agree was a bit concerning. I fail to see how the posters who are willing to jump on any thread where a man is saying things that are concerning and posters are saying those things are concerning and say 'it's just cos he is a man' without being able to back that up with anything concrete at all in pages of posts can fail to be accused of playing gender politics!

People were saying how he talked about his wife was wrong, not that being a man was wrong and several men have been on mumsnet and got support when they weren't basically saying disrespectful things about their wives.

And wtf it isn't relevant? When any poster make or female speaks about their partner disrespectfully they get a hard time.

I'm not sure why you think you are only allowed to talk about sexism on FWR either. If that's the case you shouldn't have been banging on about the op being treated differently because of his gender...

Not sure why sacrificing a bit of salary in order to actually establish a relationship with his children and reduce the stress on his relationship would be bad advice either what's?

If you choose to only contribute money and nothing else to a family then you have to be aware that the consequences of that are that you have marginalised yourself. If it is possible to avoid that and you care about being involved surely that would be sensible advice.

Ollie, from your last post it sounds as if you are considering the possibility that your wife might in fact be a lesbian. I wouldn't jump to this conclusion just based on her being physically affectionate with a female friend. Lots of women are touchy-feeling with their friends and it means nothing. But I understand why this is something you need to consider in the context of her reluctance to have, or even discuss, sex with you. Obviously it is impossible for any of us here to make a judgement on this. Only your DW can know for sure, and even she may not accept or be willing to consider this.

Realising and accepting that they are not heterosexual can be very difficult for some people, even today. If you want your DW to be honest about this, both with you and herself, you need to consider whether your environment as a couple is a safe place for her to come out. If she feels, due to past prejudices or stray comments, that being a homosexual will mean she is disgusting, unlovable or branded an unfit parent or whatever, it will make it almost impossible for her to come out.

If you want to discuss this with her at all, it has to be from a position of complete acceptance (allowing for your own sadness at losing her as a lover) and with a positive attitude that is ready to look at moving forward as loving co-parents. I realise that is a very tall order.

Of course, if she is homosexual it will be very hard for you to come to terms with, you may feel cheated or betrayed as well as a lot of other feelings we can't even guess at. I can only encourage you to deal with your resentment and negativity and put it to one side for the sake of maintaining a good relationship with the mother of your children. I presume, even if the marriage breaks down (and if she is gay, that is the best outcome I can see), your number one priority is keeping your children in this country where you can have regular contact with them.

Whatever the outcome, I reiterate my encouragement for you to seek counselling with a professional who can hopefully advise you much better and more objectively than this baying pack of hyenas us well-intentioned idiots.

'22honey- if your early sexual experiences were childhood abuse, and 3 years as a sex worker, do you not think that your experiences and opinions on sex may be a little different from those that have only experienced sex in loving relationships? And that this has a bearing on how you offer advice to the OP, and why other posters offer such different advice/experience?

I hope you are in a loving relationship now thanks'

Christ on a bike! My early sexual experiences were not childhood abuse, I had several sexual experiences that I consented to (as a teen) before all that kicked in. I don't need your sympathy or for you to tell me what experiences of mine contribute to my thoughts, thanks a lot. The fact is, I have experienced sex in all different forms INCLUDING those bad ones so yes I consider myself qualified to give advice if I wish- I STILL maintain that SOME people, not all, not even most...are not interested in sex and derive little pleasure from it! Why this is could be an all manner of things, but the fact is it is true, there are men who are asexual and not interested in sex aswell infact I regularly speak to one on another forum.

I hate the tone of your post, it implies I'm somehow totally damaged beyond repair or being able to think rationally by my experiences, I find that so insulting and you know why? Because the big part of recovering from rape and sexual abuse is being able to get out of the victim box, and no longer being that 'victim'. Thats why restorative justice has been proven to work. I really hate patronizing women who hide behind 'concern' whilst dismissing everything you say because clearly you are some fucked up piece of damaged goods who cannot think about anything rationally or outside the context of abuse, when actually what they are doing is belittling you and putting you back in that victim box you needed nothing more than to just get out of. These women are not feminists nor do they give two fucks about issues other women face, infact they are almost as bad as the abusers.

I have had a hard time, I have also experienced a loving and fantastic childhood and family aswell as loving relationships that were satisactory. Don't you ever dare try and dismiss my thoughts on a subject because I've been abused in the past.

And to that other poster, ex sex workers and current ones fucking hate being called 'prostituted women' - it makes them sound like an inanimate object with no mind or ability to make decisions themselves, which is highly insulting. I was not fucking 'prostituted', I was a woman exchanging sex for money, a sex worker.

By the way other posters gave similar advice to me and as I said, none have yet claimed to be an ex sex worker or whatever.

And I agree BigBoobedBirtha, my DP didn't automatically know how to make me orgasm either, it was something that took encouragement, enthusiasm from me and me showing him what I liked. Now he knows exactly what I like and I orgasm everytime we have sex. You cant just expect a man to know what you like in bed and what makes you orgasm, and if his DW has never attempted to show him what makes her tick and what makes her orgasm, how the fuck is he supposed to know?

Offred you must be having a fucking laugh now! I AM THE ONE WITH A LOW OPINION OF MEN!!? I AM THE ONE WITH A LOW EXPECTATION OF SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS? I cannot believe what shit you are talking now!!? I think you'll find I've stated several times I have a satisfactory sex lif, I actually orgasm regularly as I have posted several times so clearly theres nothing wrong with my sex life or expectations of it, you are honestly un fucking believeable! All I've done throughout the thread is stick up for the man getting an unnecessary beating on here when a woman WOULD NOT get the same, plenty of other posters have said exactly the same thing as me so don't even try to bring my personal life and issues into this to dismiss what I say, it has fuck all to do with it when clearly several other people agree with me, who don't have the same age or life circumstances!

22honey, I've reported your post for being pretty fucking offensive in its terminology.

I said you seem to have a low opinion of men based on what you have posted about it being part of maleness to blackmail for sex and cheat if they don't get it. I did not say you had an unsatisfying sexual relationship (though you did level that as an insult at me) I said you seemed to have low expectations of your position as a woman within relationships.

Well this is nice isn't it?

Are these latter posts helping you with your Relationship problem OP?

I'm just here to read the comments at this point.

Pretty convinced it's a wind up after that massive drip feed tbh...

Hi everybody,
Can see that there are some strong opinions on this topic but can you please remember our Talk Guidelines, particularly our rules about disablist language. We do understand some of you might prefer that personal attacks be left to stand, but when they contain particularly offensive terms, we do feel the need to delete them, even if you are just quoting somebody.
Thanks!

Offred I actually stated further up I despise the idea put across by several posters that the man should do more housework or other things to essentially 'buy' sex and intimacy off his wife, and that its an outdated idea woman needs things doing or buying for her or else she doesnt want any sex. I never said anywhere its part of maleness to blackmail for sex or cheat if they don't get it? A female poster further up stated that she had an affair after 7 years without any intimacy, does that mean that its part of womanness to cheat if you don't get any sex? So go on, where the hell do I say its part of maleness to blackmail for sex? You honestly put a load of rubbish, nonsensical points across and put words in posters mouths to further your agenda. From your posts it seems it is you who has a strange view of male sexuality, and female sexuality as it goes. You seem totally alien to the idea not everyone's sexuality is exactly the same, you term things ie my apparent ideas on 'womens sexuality', when the fact is and I have stated as much is all women are different when it comes to their sexuality and so are men,

Why do I have a low expectation of my position as a woman in sexual relationships? Because I think its fucking ridiculous to suggest a man needs to do more housework to get any sex? Where have I even announced my 'expectations of my position as woman in sexual relationships'? Or are you not actually using anything I've said but merely what you think I must think because of my past? If thats the case, get a grip. Again, dont attempt to define me by my experiences. I definately do not except any low position as a woman in sexual relationships if I consider it important I enjoy sex aswell as he does and if I actually encourage and teach sex that I enjoy to ensure this. Seems my expectations arnt as low as the OP's wives.

accept* any low position in a sexual relationship!

22honey You need to learn about the world at large and why people say the things that they do. You failed to read some of the subtext here. A lot of ladies here have said that when you have given birth, there can be an awful lot of things going on. It is indeed one of those life's challenges. Some of us may push and plough on, but if we focus, the female body needs nourishing again. The lady have to learn to juggle the hormones which goes on in her body and so forth. Even if the husband cannot relate to the emotional side of birth giving, surely he can see that the wife may appreciate any physical help also on helping around the house to buy the wife some time to focus on the new birth ? To me, that is what a perfect coupledom or a relationship should be.

You said that I was seeing things in a Disney viewpoint, and I had to step back and think why you said this. In actual fact, most of my family is like that. We take care of one another. I have been that "half a husband" to my cousins when they gave birth. I had also brought cookings, or food, or various other things to my sister when she gave birth. Along with her husband's help also. We share. We care. This is NOT Disney. To us, this is real, and this is family. To me, it is buying time. Splitting the work, until the worst is overcome and then they are back to a routine or a manageable flow.

Heck, even my ex that I just left told me that his mom flew across the world to be there for his brother's 2nd baby. She cooked nourishing food for the wife to recover her health. He told me that his brother and wife was like teenagers again and they made the best of it all. Go out on dates, everyone just enjoying some decent dinner. Cos the intensity of childrearing was too much. An extra pair of hand is welcomed. My ex also flew every once a while to his brother's to help with their childcare too. His nephew loves him to bits, and the child gets the best of all personalities and is brought up a well rounded person.

No, this is not Disney world. This is real.

Maisie and I am not denying any of your first paragraph, nor do I reject the concept the OP's wife might have had zero sexual experience due to being a virgin when she got with him thus may just not have been compatible with him but thought it didn't get any better than that. Probably one of the reasons I see it as a good thing for people to experiment before they settle down. I am not denying whatsoever about giving birth and the female body needing nourishing again, merely that I have seen first hand women not being that interested in sex with their DP even before they conceived (I also did say there can be many reasons for this, not JUST that many people dont derive much pleasure from sex and are apathetic to it)

I don't need to learn about the world at large, I've had a mirray of different experiences in my life, I'm not denying I still have lots of time to have more though. I accept the notion of sharing the work aswell, and did try to explain earlier on that I agree with that (ie to other posters keep mentioning that my DP does the cooking as though its a bad thing, despite their argument throughout the thread being that women do too much domestic drudgery- that doesnt mean he does every household chore, just that we share them and cooking is less offensive to him such as washing the dishes is less offensive to me than cooking or whatever).

I have never once denied that the OP's wife might not be tired, depressed, feeling rotten or whatever merely that from what HE said, she appeared to be one of those people apathetic to sex given she never seemed interested even before children (but I do accept the notion she may just not know what she likes due to inexperience, but how the fuck is that the OP's fault or equate to him being unable to satisfy her and shit in bed?)

Plus Maisie yes a woman could do with help around the house after a birth, but the OP's youngest child is 9 months old now and its perfectly possible to be back to normal by that time, depending on other factors. Hes probably just wondering when, if at all it is going to return to normal (and his normal didnt sound like anything too crazy anyway!). Many women conceive another child in that time, fgs. Yes every woman is different but to blame the OP for the situation as if hes having a piss easy time of it and always has and its his dire bedroom skills that are the problem is just rather one sided and sexist, again blaming men all the time for any sexuality problems a woman might have.

Offred, with regards to the way he talks about his wife, some women on similar threads talk as bad if not worse about their DH and they still dont get the roasting any man posting about the same thing does. Calling their DH a twat and whatnot is common and you dont see any posters writing in reply to these threadss what a shit wife they must be to be calling their DH a twat online.