Not had sex for almost two years

[Olliedelondon]

I very much love my DW. Before we had our two children, we had a reasonable sex life, although I would always initiate. But since our children we have had very little sex (once every four months maybe) and nothing at all for now almost two years. My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children. But I think it's destroying our marriage and I'm not prepared to sacrifice a sex life and frankly don't see why I should. I also don't think she fancies me. At all. Am I unreasonable? What should I do? I have 'got by' by using pornography in secret. I have also started fantasising about attractive colleagues, although I have never had an affair. The sexual frustration I feel is almost painful...Help?

I think this has all moved on somewhat from the OP's actual statements.

One thing that has not been explored though:
they didn't have sex before marriage- there can only really be one reason for this- religion. If the OP's wife has had religious ideas of sex indoctrinated in her, it's hardly surprising she does not want sex- she has likely been taught sex is for men, for the pleasure of men, to procreate, it's dirty, 'nice' women don't like it, it's something women are 'subjected' to, etc etc. Many religions actively discourage masturbation, and exploring one's own body- so how on earth could she find out what is pleasurable to her?

Ollie did not answer my question yesterday about what the reason for no sex before marriage was, but it's highly unlikely to be anything else, is it?

ThisIsLID

I think we've heard a reasonable amount from the OP actually:

"She does say that I don't do enough round the house, but I recently set up a new business and work 60 plus hours per week doing that"
"I also have a great relationship with my Children and do plenty with them."
“My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children.”
“When I pay her a compliment, she shrugs as if I am being sarcastic.”
“I just wonder whether she is just not interested in sex. She has never initiated it between us”
“She just won't engage in any talk regarding sex. When it has been raised, in arguments, she suggests that me focusing on it, is just plain selfish and she has far more important things to think about.”
“She has said that she has a low sex drive”
“We don't have any physical proximity, not even a hug or peck on cheek. If I try to do just that, she doesn't like it. She doesn't explain why, even when I ask.”

Lots of comments seem very focused on the not helping enough around the house and long working weeks, as if that's the cause of the issues, when it seems pretty clear to me that it's more deep rooted than that. (And plenty of people

Of course we don't know the full ins and outs, and we certainly don't know what's going through her mind. But what we do know is that when he tries to talk about it he gets brushed off as if it's not an issue. No doubt he is at some fault for how they've ended up in a marriage with no intimacy, but she's apparently not showing any signs of wanting to resolve it. Unless she actually communicates with him, he has no chance. It is the lack of communication that's the issue at the moment.

(Apologies for random half sentence)

She doesn't really do anything other than look after the children
I think that statement says it all really.
So you have a cook that comes in.
A cleaner? To hoover, dust, Cif, etc... the house.
Someone to do all the washing, drying, putting away of clothes, bedding etc....
Someone to do all the shopping, meal planning.
A nanny who does the school run for you both.
A financial person to come in and make sure you are budgeting for the house hold.
A person/taxi service to make sure the children get to activities, parties.
That same person gets all the presents for the various childrens parties.
Seriously? You can afford all this? You really are well off.

From what you say, there's probably no way she would.
But I think you need to be left to look after everything for 2 weeks. As a PP said, you cannot fully appreciate what goes into running a house and looking after kids unless you have to do it yourself.

Oh stop taking things out of context. That was in reply to Cog, who asked "Does she go out to work, have a social life etc ... What does she do during these 60 hours?" I think we can all agree that being a SAHM is more than just 'looking after the children'.

Ok this thread has stuck a raw nerve to me. I might be projecting there so feel free to ignore my comments.
NOTE: I am NOT the OP's DW....

I met my partner when I was in mid 20s. Just like the DW I was a virgin, so he was my first partner. It also happens that my partner has some social/communication issues so talking and especially 'sensitive' subjects such as sex doesn't come easily to him.
We had sex. It was sort of nice but nowhere mind blowing. After a couple of years it became tedious and boring. I never had an orgasm with him. It was all 'quick', I didn't have time to 'warm up' so to speak. He never said anything even though he knew I didn't have an orgasm. he just thought I had a low libido and wasn't 'into sex' aka it was all my fault and he couldn't possibly do anything about it.
The reality was that I had no idea what good sex was. I had no idea of what would turn me on, what I would like, let alone being able to tell him! And he never asked either.
I also probably didn't make it really nice for him either. He never said what he liked, his clues were poor and when I did take the courage to ask he just said 'you will have find out yourself'.
And so we went. I was frustrated, didn't enjoy it so avoided sex. Tension just went up and up.

Add to that 2 young children, me stopping working and being very isolated (all my friends were still working, I had no family around and no 'mummy friends') and him being away for work half of the week. That was a recipe for disaster.

Now I am lucky that my partner never put the blame onto me like this. He tried to understand instead. We worked through it, both us. Both on sexual issues (eg I learn to know more about my own body and fantasies and to talk about it. He learn to know my body and what worked for me, which wasn't automatically what worked for his previous gfs) and our relationship issues (eg balance between work and home for him and me).
And we pull through.

Some of the answers are leaving speechless. Apparently, the DW should just 'get on with it and give him sex'. Regardless whether she enjoys it or not?
She must not like sex or not fancy him if she doesn't have an orgasm/enjoys sex with him?
He is her one and only partner, she had no experience at all (and still has no experience for what good sex is), but it's OK that he has never taken the time to see what turns her on.
What my experience taught me is that having good sex is a two way thing and that he will need to put more effort into it if he wants it to work.
Then of course, you have all the added issues of the relationship as such that will also need to be sorted out. If the DW doesn't do anything else at all apart from looking after the dcs, there is an issue. If she feels he doesn't pull his weight, there is an issue. If she feels that he is pestering her for sex, there is an issue. If she doesn't/can't accept that there are some sacrifices coming with having a new business/being self employed, then there is also an issue.
And to want to have sex with someone, especially when the act itself isn't that attractive due to the issues above, then any small problems is likely to be a very strong deterrent. Unlike couples where sex is what 'bind them' and helps them overcome daily struggles, daily struggles makes anything to do with sex an even bigger struggle to 'get going'.
At that's wo talking about the fact she might 'have out the effort in', have sex when she didn't really want to and got very resentful for it.

Which takes me to advice to the OP that haven't come across.
Have you thought about counselling, both as a couple and sexual conucelling for the sex issue as such for both of you.
Some people can pull it out on their own but tbh it is much harder than with the help of a GOOD professional.

Dont

I appreciate your post, and very happy for you that it's something you came through. Gives hope to us! It all goes back to communication. Presumably to get to where you are now, and even before counselling, there had to be some discussion and acknowledgement of there being a problem. From what the OP has said, his wife just wants to ignore it and he's already said that there's no way she'd go to counselling.

If she won't start talking, or refuses to try and rekindle anything then there isn't much hope is there? No amount of time away from the kids, husband doing more around the house, flowers etc is going to change things.

Maisie my point about the business supposedly being the OP's choice didn't have anything to do with anything you had written, it was directed at Offred.

BigboobiedBertha Oh ok. Thank you for clarifying that.

Yes like ANY relationship issue, it all goes back to communication.

Don't think that there has been a lot of discussions for us though. As I said, my partner has communication issues so 'discussing' things as you would think about it isn't really an option for us. It also means that counselling was out of the question for a long time. But what has always been there is the will to make it better from both of us as well as wanting the other to be happy.

Tbh, from the outside, I would probably have come across as 'not wanting to talk about it'. (Even though I seem to remember that the OP said that she thought he was concentrating too much on sex and should be thinking about his family instead rather wanting to avoid the question as such).
But that was because 1- sex was some sort of taboo subject for me, 2- I had no idea what I was talking about or what I wanted, 3- after so much pressure to have sex (a kiss would be an invitation to PIV), I just didn't want to even talk about it. I didn't feel heard on other less sensitive subjects, why should I believe it would be different on that one?

Talking is essential as long as it's talking TO the other person and not OVER her. I personally can't tell what sort of communicator the OP really is. I don't like the expressions/words he is using, it would drive me crazy if I had to discuss these subjects with him but that's just me.

And sometimes communicating isn't about words but about gestures and actions (something we have done more than actual talking). It's about showing that you enjoy the other person company by spending some time with them rather than telling them you like them. It's about showing them what turns you on when you have sex, guiding their hand, rather than going into a lengthy explanation of what isn't working and what you want/need. Sometimes it's about putting yourself second for a while, even if you are the so called 'injured party' to leave space for the other person to come out of their shell and start changing.

In short, the person who has to start changing is the stronger person in the couple. This might or might not be the 'person at fault' (even though I think it's clear there isn't ONE person at fault but rather NONE or TWO depending on how you want to look at things). But one person needs to start the change. The OP is the one who is asking, clearly wanting the change. Why doesn't he do something about it? (Clue: I am not talking about doing more housework or taking out for a meal that is clearly suppose to lead to sex.)

Im sorry if I upset anyone That was not my intention. In December 2012 I started receiving PMs from a male poster who started posting on this board about his sexless marriage.
I admit the messages got a bit flirty on both sides. Then he started messaging more often and asking where I was if I didn't answer straight away. It got a bit much so I had to block him.
Last November someone else (or so I thought) started messaging me after starting a thread about being in a sexless marriage, There was something about the style of messages that reminded me of something. I tried to block and couldn't Wasn't till a couple of days later that I thought to unblock the first poster And then all of a sudden I was able to block the second one. I had asked Messager no 2 if he was Messager no 1 and he insisted he wasn't.
Im really sorry if I upset anyone by generalizing or stereotyping though. It was not my intention

And somewhere in those PMs I received it came out his marriage wasn't really sexless at all.

I can't see that what you've written should be upsetting for anyone. You're writing from your perspective which is to be valued. And about the guy messaging you. I don't know what proportions of marriages are sexless or not, and if men complaining about it are exaggerating or not. All I can say is my experience, which is no sex for 2.5 years (since conception of DC).

'It is not common for frigid women to deliberately trick a man into thinking they like sex in order to get a baby and then withdraw it..'

offred, I didnt read that in a magazine, infact I didn't read it at all, and also its a lot more complicated than the way you have put it. I agree no one likely does that, though it IS true that some women just decide they don't want sex anymore. Its something many a depressed, frustrtated DH has said/posted online.

and i watched the programme with jameela or whatever shes called, me and DP both did, she was ridiculously naive about pretty much everything she spoke about. The only shocking thing was some woman showing her some paedophile website. Obviously some teenage boys will think it represents real sex, I find though that once men have actually experienced real sex they do not think like that much. Not every man is obsessed with watching porn all the time where they prefer it or think it is the same as real sex. I've had a lot of experience, probably much more than you as I worked in the sex industry for 3 years. I have to say I'm not the biggest fan of the industry either but some of your points are just ridiculously one sided, sexist and offensive to me.

hellbells everyone knows its hard work running a house and looking after kids, but its not as if the OP does fuck all all week! He goes to work trying to establish his own business which will help the family financially, he says himself he has a great relationship with his kids and does lots with them, your acting like nothing in the world is harder than running a house and looking after kids which is bullshit!

Sick of the martyrdom act, yes looking after kids is tiring and can be boring as hell but its not the toughest job in the world.

and hellsbells I do all those things in my house aswell as looking after and cleaning up after 4 bloody animals and I don't sit around complaining how hard done by I am and constantly nagging my DP and depriving him of intimacy because I'm bitter about domestic drudgery I HAVE CHOSEN, we both do our bit to support the family and cleaning and looking after your own house and children is nothing like being some sort of slave like you make out. If you don't want to put a lot of work in around the home etc don't have children.

Yes, she was naive about what she spoke about but what was more interesting were the views of the children and people working in sex ed and also the results of their survey.

What have I said that's sexist?

Thanks Whatsthat. I thought I may have projected a little because of that experience which wasn't fair of me.
It did rubber stamp for me that women take more of a risk talking about this subject than men do.
Although being in this sort of situation is corrosive and soul destroying no matter what your gender.

I'm not sure you're best placed though still as you seem to believe a lot of the misogynistic rubbish you've posted. I can't quite get my head around why you'd post something you don't believe either...

I don't see anything sexist in Offreds posts

drudgery I HAVE CHOSEN, we both do our bit to support the family and cleaning and looking after your own house and children is nothing like being some sort of slave like you make out. If you don't want to put a lot of work in around the home etc don't have children

22 Surely you BOTH chose it Children aren't some sort of immaculate conception.

Sorry to hear about your experiences Darkest, the internet can be a magnet for people preying (or trying to prey) on those they see as vulnerable.

I didn't take offence, but you're right to an extent, when I wrote my first thread I spelt out factually how much sex DW and I had over the previous years and received a fair amount of support. On the second thread I didn't and just used the word "sexless" without a definition to back it up. That led to all manner of assumptions, at both ends of the spectrum often, I thought, coloured by my gender.

But, I think it may not be that men have a harder time on here than women, it's more that they have an easier time in RL compared to women, so when opinions are aired here it's more painful. Maybe.

Sorry everyone - I never do this but I posted a response after just 2 pages thinking there wasn't anything else.
So I did NOT RTFT!!!

Obviously things have moved on a lot since page 2 and I missed it all. DOH!!!

The problem is the majority of babies are unplanned and that even if you choose to have a baby you are not making a choice to have the drudgery. A significant amount of the drudgery is imposed by capitalism and sexism.

Too often fathers make choices which limit the mother's, often obliviously, like deciding to start a business and put in 60 hour weeks meaning their wife has no choice but to 'not do much more than care for the dc'. It's not about the work so much as it's about the ability to choose.

Quite frankly I think it is undeniable that paid work is given greater status in this society and that women are still expected to provide free childcare and housework and that women's choices over what domestic drudgery they do (or maybe more aptly don't do) are often still limited by their male partners and society.

This leads to the inevitable problem of men as paid workers being seen as higher status and women being seen as slaves hence all the "oh I love to have his tea on the table" and "of course he needs to wind down and relax and not be disturbed when he gets home" that really is just an expectation that women are required to be grateful to their male provider and as a consequence do much longer hours of work and put in more effort to ensuring his comfort.

And that women report that they still do the lion's share of childcare/housework even when both working full time also say "I can't afford to go back to work" or "if I go back I'll be essentially working for nothing" because childcare and housework are still seen as the woman's responsibility even when she is working or when she's considering going back.