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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

999 replies

CharlotteCollins · 05/04/2014 22:59

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
CurtWild · 17/04/2014 21:27

Wow. Not only is that exactly how I feel physically, you just described my very own fw to a T. There is no point in engaging right now because there is no reasoning with him when he's like this. Just writing that down actually reminded me of the fact. Whatever I say will be wrong, too. So best to say nothing. And remember to breathe.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 17/04/2014 21:32

That's exactly right. We'd be fighting a losing battle, and we'd hate ourselves afterwards for giving in and explaining or trying to reason with them. The only way to illustrate to them that we are well and truly not going to enter the fray is to detach and ignore.

I've outlined what is available for contact. He can rant all he likes. I'm ignoring. But that is what is available. The solicitor has advised me that I am being absolutely reasonable (actually very much agreeable - more so than he could expect in the circumstances) and that I am doing the right thing by protecting the DCs. So I will stand by it.

CurtWild · 17/04/2014 22:33

I'm actually in half a mind to get a cheap phone with a new sim and it can just be for him. That way I can ignore it easier. And I get to keep my good phone just for me.

Funnyfishface · 18/04/2014 00:58

Hi all.
I have been lurking for a while. So pleased for you Alice and Colin that things are moving on for you. Onwards and upwards.
You may remember me??
Have been going couples counselling for nearly a year now. It really is 2 steps forward and three back. We live in the same house but separate rooms. The counsellor told him this week that he is passive aggressive. And abusive. He listens to what she says then when we leave the room it's forgotten. He feels sorry for himself and thinks he is hard done by. It is bloody exhausting.
I can't see that we are making any real progress.
Aghhhhhh!!!!

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 18/04/2014 06:23

Funny do you think there will be any progress made while you are still living together? Not trying to be funny, just curious. Are you hoping to stay together? Or just in one of those uncomfortable housing dilemmas? (sorry, can't remember details)

I'm asking mainly because you are saying you've been in counselling for a year, and the counsellor is just now telling him that he is passive aggressive and abusive? That seems a long time coming IMO. And if he's not taking on board anything the counsellor says, I'd be struggling to see a point in continuing the counselling.

What do you see for yourself next? What are you hoping to achieve with continued counselling? (Not being snarky, genuine questions)

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 18/04/2014 19:44

Funny I meant to ask... what does HE want out of this counselling? Has he said?

FairyFi · 18/04/2014 21:24

do hang onto these evidences Alice Curt they are exactly what show any court/cs/cafcass how he views the DC as his hostages to negotiate terms with. Pawns to coerce.

I looked back at an on-line convo I had with a family member when all this was kicking off with me and I re-read her saying, the police won't be interested in this sort of stuff, just send him an abrupt reply... since then I realised any reply was exactly what he was after.. I learnt that after too many replies that just gave him what he wanted, engagement over issues he wanted to force. It made me realise a lot just reading it back.

FFF - i think that the 'not making any progress' is proof -sorry to say

CurtWild · 18/04/2014 21:59

fairy I'm keeping every text and jotting down any conversations. He hates texting because he knows if he calls, he can say anything he likes and I have no proof. But if he texts then his shit priorities/broken visitation/verbal abuse is there in black and white.
Looking forward to a fw free easter weekend!
Happy Easter all Thanks Easter Smile

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 18/04/2014 22:13

I'm basically waiting for the other shoe to fall right now, after his demanding message from last night, to which I didn't respond. He has accused me of hiding something and mentioned me seeing someone (which, I'll admit, is news to me Hmm) and demanding to know what this "crap" is about meeting him in a public place. I can only assume he's forgotten why we separated to begin with. Hmm

CurtWild · 18/04/2014 22:24

It's been complete radio silence today from stbxh after yesterday's nastiness. I have also been accused of seeing someone, I was obviously in the park with said someone yesterday, he's decided. As if I'd put myself through that again anytime soon (if ever!).
I honestly do think they conveniently 'forget' all the shit they put us through that brought us to separating ftom them alice. Mine certainly seems to have Confused

FairyFi · 19/04/2014 00:41

they don't forget. Although mine famously said "I haven't got a leg to stand on have I as I can't remember any of it!" - oh dear .. poor luvvy.. such a shit memory for the big things in life.

but asking about it, or querying the 'crap' about meeting in public place is not genuine question, but excuse to get you back in convo.. so that... yep... back into the loop.

CurtWild · 19/04/2014 00:57

Mine has re-written history so many times I'd be surprised if he remembers anything as it actually happened. Sad fact is he's lied so incessantly he really believes it's the truth. He used to make me feel crazy for sticking to what I know happened. Now I see it was just all part and parcel of the mental/emotional abuse.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 19/04/2014 07:52

CurtWild Sometimes I think STBXH is that way too - he's told the lie so many times that he believes it himself now. He's convinced himself he's done nothing wrong.

Fi Oh yes, the "what are you hiding" the "are you seeing someone" and the "crap about meeting in public place" are ALL things I suspect he thought would get a reaction and therefore open up conversation again. I ignored. None of it is worth responding to. I told him what contact is being offered. He can either take it or not. That's it. No point in any further discussion about it.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 19/04/2014 07:54

He also made a passing comment about "you have a car, I don't" to justify me driving over there, instead of him coming to where we live. Tough. HE made the choice to move away. HE chose to quit his job. All HIS choices that are now affecting his options. Again, not my problem. I am firmly sitting in the "ignore" camp. I think he expected me to come back with a comment about him taking the bus or train (both of which are a cheap option and he knows it)

CurtWild · 19/04/2014 12:49

Time and again he shows me it's not about seeing our DC and playing a proper part in their lives. It's about continuing to draw me in and manipulate me and I'm not playing anymore. If he truly wanted to see them, he'd arrange properly and turn up. There'd be none of this 'punishing me via them' bullshit, he'd just get on with being a dad instead of being a dick. The fact that he doesn't speaks volumes.
It'll be a cold day in hell before I phone and apologise for doing nothing. I did that enough during our relationship.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 19/04/2014 14:17

Very true CurtWild. IMO, if my STBXH really wants to see the DCs, then he will say "okay, I'll meet you to see the DCs in a public place if that's what you want." But instead it's "forget it, you're playing head games." This is ALWAYS his reaction whenever he doesn't like something - "forget it" as in "cancel the contact visit" every single time. Kind of shows you that the contact with the DCs isn't his priority here, is it? Hmm

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 19/04/2014 14:23

Oh, and yes the "punishing me via them" thing, definitely. Interestingly, he hasn't figured out that him cancelling doesn't punish us at all. The DCs aren't ever told he's going to visit until he is there, so if he doesn't show, they don't know about it anyway. And it's certainly not a bother to me - less chance of dealing with his temper.

CurtWild · 19/04/2014 16:26

They really all do seem to follow the same 'script'. "Forget it" is one I hear so often, and no, there really is no one being punished by this behaviour as I stopped saying he'd be visiting after the first couple of no shows. And it frees up my time too if we're not staying in waiting for him. So in a way, he's almost doing me a favour. Wouldn't he hate it if he realised that's how I see it Grin

FairyFi · 19/04/2014 21:42

ha ha Alice & Curt you really have FWs number! dead impressive there ladies!

wish I had been as quick on the uptake.

Just came on to wish everyone safe and happy easter xxx

FairyFi · 19/04/2014 21:43

including all lurkers Wink thinking of you

mousebacon · 19/04/2014 22:07

Hello Smile

I'm just delurking briefly to ask a question. My 'd' h is certainly EA. I have a long term escape plan (as long as I can see it through) and I recently found out that I will stop paying my student loan repayments in a couple of months meaning I'll have between £80-100 to squirrel away.

I was wondering if anyone had experience of this? Did you get a bank account? Hide cash somewhere? I can't work out what to do!

Thanks, mouse

mousebacon · 19/04/2014 22:09

That's £80-100 per month!

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 20/04/2014 08:02

mousebacon Not knowing your situation very well, I can't really advise specifically, but if you have a bank account, it needs to be one that doesn't send paperwork to the house. Otherwise he will see that and know something is up. With hiding cash in the house, you then spend all your time worrying that he will find it.

Why a long term escape plan? Do you have children? Is it possible to just leave sooner rather than waiting? (obviously I have no idea of your situation, just wondering)

I'm still a bit Hmm that STBXH said he didn't have a fiver for public transport to get over to visit the DCs, but had almost £300 to pay his mobile bill this month. And he's not paid his child maintenance. It's official then. He's wandering into deadbeat dad territory now.

CurtWild · 20/04/2014 10:41

I'm still in shock that stbxh can turn up on the wrong day, blame me for being out and then give our DC's easter eggs to one of his female friends for her kids!
Surely a more 'reasonable' response would've been: "Oh crap, genuine mistake, I got thursday stuck in my head. Have a nice afternoon and I'll see you guys tomorrow." With that kind of response I'd probably have cut the park short and headed home to save him travelling two days. Because I'm nice and reasonable and that's what nice, reasonable people do.
Instead I got a whole earful of abuse and name calling, accused of changing days without telling him (wtf?!) and his mates kids are getting our DC's eggs because she's far better than me and they've had
a rough time and they deserve them

CurtWild · 20/04/2014 10:47

Gah post too soon. Anyway....I'm off to my parents soon, we're having a nice run out to the country, a visit to the wildlife conservation park and then a meal. Still NC from stbxh. Let's see if he attempts to ruin our day or continues to sulk.
Happy Easter all..enjoy the chocolate! (diet resumes tomorrow Easter Grin)

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