Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Maybe that solicitor is not the right one for you? He sounds a bit woolly - is he a DV expert?

I wouldn't be going on any social occasions with him now. It's just going to be more harrassment.

If you have your own money, I would've thought an injunction is a better way to spend it than moving out of your house. If you don't - if all your money would be disputed in a divorce, then you should be eligible for legal aid.

thats my legal advice was similar to yours - an injunction only says they're not allowed to do what they're already not allowed to do. Police are free, do let them protect you. And I'd agree - no social occasions or picking up someone who is harrassing you. I dearly hope this is the push that you need, and I second alice's words although it's hard to hear. I hope you're OK. Remember you're in a place here where we all totally understand how hard it is.

Noregrets I feel badly saying it all, but having been in a very similar position, I know that it really is the best way. You can't "dabble" when involving police. You need to go in full throttle and allow them to do their job, and that includes making arrests and him being charged with harassment if need be. It is the ONLY thing that will make a dent in his behaviour. He won't listen to her - he's shown that quite clearly. Now he needs to be shown he is not omnipotent. The police are quite good at this, when given the tools to do the job.

thanks everyone. Apologies, I am all over the place but some things are coming together, I need to write it down so I can see when I'm slipping bakc into old patterns. I didn't drive to go get him, he's coming out however and the social occassion may or may not happen but only because I would feel v safe as there will be a big safe group around inc our friends he was with last night, evidently he 'opened up' to them a bit so I can guage how much grasp he has of the situation by what he's said to them. I am pleased in a way that he has someone to talk to about how he feels as this casts some light on his behaviour and it does look bad in the light of day he can see this, and perhaps his friend can tell him and he will listen as he won't to me. I am not in any way taking responsibility for his actions but I think he needs to see that there is some spark of a grain of wrong-ness in his overwhelming demands for control... I told my friend he'd demanded that I quit my job and he was a bit aghast at that, as he said he couldn't imagine demanding his wife (my friend) listening to him if he acted like that to her, etc.

Re the police, my calls/reports have been very specific, he has now been officially warned against harassment and next time I call they will be down on him like a ton of bricks. He truly does not seem to see that he has done anything wrong-- that's why I dont actually desire to see him arresteted as it would be counterproductive at this point. I need to be completely out of the picture (physically) and divorce proceedings need to be firmly in place or else it will look arbitrary and reactionary when the situation is not one bit unplanned. Of course I always have 999 in the back of my mind.

DD has really steeled my resolve, she refuses to see him at all. She does not want to be in the same house as him and has made plans to leave if he comes. I think that level of intolerance by her, due to his actions, will be a wake up call for him sadly. But then again he might just decide that she's not worth the effort. Hopefully we will revisit the injunction idea or failing that she and I will move out for a few weeks to an unknown location. The solicitor is a DV solicitor and knows what he is doing but H hasn't actually been tested yet-- ie I had not specifically asked him not to come to the house, to gauge his reaction, but I did last night and he did respect that. But I'll see if he leaves fast, if he doesn't injunction best route.

I want him to see that I am not being heavy handed via the police... he will appreciate that... it's leverage at the moment in a twisted sort of way.

You give him far too much credit and IMO you are trying too hard to be nice to him. He will certainly appreciate it and will likely use it against you. I think you greatly underestimate the risk here. Please be careful.

If he does show an inkling of an awareness of how badly he's behaving... are you saying that you would give him a second chance? Please please don't go back to him until you have been properly separated, no contact, for a full year. Then you can meet and see if his understanding has developed at all.

I'm glad the solicitor knows what he's doing!

Charlotte I have to agree on that "one year" thing. God, even with all the shit KD put me and the kids through, I can look back and I know that if he had gone to counselling and made an effort, I would have been swayed. Don't know for sure if I'd have gone back, but I do think it would have been touch and go. Even now, while I would never ever get back with him, I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like had he been a decent person. It's so hard sometimes to separate the "imaginings" from the reality - I think that's why we're so easily swayed when they are on their best behaviour. It sparks that tiny hope inside that he actually IS the good guy we married or got together with and we want that to be true. And then you think "okay, I overreacted"... and then all hell breaks loose again and you realise that Nothing. Has. Changed.

A year later, I know him and his behaviour patterns much much better and I can see some of the manipulation for what it really is. No more spaghetti head from him keeping me off balance constantly like he did when we were together.

alice Charlotte thanks for reminding me of the term spaghetti head as that's exactly where I am right now. I got v drunk last night but everyone behaved fine and it was a lovely evening... And my resolve is firm that I want out of this situation! I am thinking about the contents of his emails to me where he lists in detail my faults and shortcomings, compared to the fact that I had good conversations last night, was witty and charming and enjoyed myself-- I was happy and confident and his attitude towards me is so wrong. It's his problem not mine. It's holding me back.

It's reminded me of something that happened about 15 years ago. It was a summer when we had 2 weddings to go to, I was feeling a bit unconfident, fat and dowdy, SAHM with 2 kids even though I was thinner than I am now and we had little money but I bought myself a dress and fixed up nicely, first wedding was lovely, all went well and H did a really unusual thing of telling me afterwards that I had looked great and that he'd been really 'proud' of me. So when I wore the same outfit a couple of weeks later to the next wedding I started out all confident. But. It went wrong, I seem to remember he took me aside and totally blasted me on the way to the reception for being fat or dowdy or boring (cannot remember the exact details) and made me feel like utter sh*t. People could tell I was upset, think I stayed in the bathroom crying for a while. Anyway the point is-- that it wasn't ME, it wasn't the outfit, it was HIM. So I'm going to hold on to the memory of that today and keep that anger! Yes I feel sorry for him but I have got to feel sorry for me!

He's stayed in London overnight, hope he will leave this morning. He's still unaware how in the wrong he is... I know I shouldn't have 'let' him stay but it's both our names on the deed so until I take action I cannot prevent him.

alice just reread your first para above, so so true!

Yikes, just realising how much I'm in danger of minimising all this now. It cannot happen. Yes we had a decent time last night and pretended all was fine as lots of people were around but that does NOT mean its ok. I have a strong weapon in the form of his emails to me which detail my failures, need to get in touch with solicitor today and look at the options for getting him out. He has supposedly given me an ultimatum to quit my job by today and perhaps the best way to end things is to tell him to F off as I'm not doing that. He will get ugly as its not only me but DD who aren't obeying him.

It turns out that he's invited friends out to the other house this Friday, I think he expects DD and me to be there. Yikes. Why can't I just tell him it's over?

Leaving him is going to be more difficult than anything that's come before, most likely, and it takes days and weeks unfortunately - it's not just a moment, although I think I always imagined it would be. I'd say, "It's over," and it would be... No, it doesn't work like that. He's like a toddler, constantly asking by his behaviour, "Do you mean that?" until finally he gets the message.

Hope your day has gone well. Wishing you strength for tomorrow.

Aargh. Tricky day as DD didn't want to be in the house with him, sorted out, he left around 3:00,

2 things on my mind: 1) the other day when DD and I were at friends house and he came here, he went through the house and threw some things around, not a lot and he's done similar before. But he found my books, Lundy Bancroft plus Patricia Evans "the verbally abusive relationship'. They weren't well hidden, just in one of my drawers. He took them. I realised later when i was looking for them, and when I asked him he said he'd thrown them away. 2) he had sex with me last night. I must have been quite drunk, I think, could hardly talk in taxi home. Id had a few glasses of wine over several hours but didnt seem excessive. We got in, I made him a cup of tea, went upstairs and fell asleep fully clothed, no memory of that at all. I woke up with him on top of me IYKWIM. I'm not too bothered and I'm sure I didn't object but.... It wasn't right. Technically rape I would think as I'm pretty sure I didn't consent. I've no desire to bring it up or discuss it with him. I'm just wondering what he got out of it?? Creepy indeed.

Creepy and illegal. It's rape as you were unable to give consent. You need to report it to the police. You need to stop trying to be "nice" and "cooperative."

I'm not being nice or cooperative at all, and he's sent me an email saying he thought we were 'getting somewhere' but that I had ruined it by my lack of communication yesterday. I saw texts this morning, one from 3AM, saying he was coming back to London. He didn't (evidently) but I hadn't checked my phone until I got to work. DD is insisting we bolt the door but DS stays up all night most nights so he would have known if he'd turned up.

He's now sent a list of what it is he wants: sell house in London and buy one in countryside. Until the house is sold he wants me to live out there and commute into London, while I'm looking around for a better job out there. NO NO NO NO.

Luckily I've got my weekend friend plus a few others here who know what's going on, I'm finding solicitor/WA/etc not much help, no criticism of them but I want some action on my part.

Job sort of OK, no one knows what is going on but my attendence has been patchy.

H's main demand of me is that I stop working and turn my attention onto him, so I've struggled not to give in to that.

But right now I feel like packing up and disappearing. My options are:

1. stay in the house with kids and muddle on- NOT AN OPTION
2. get him arrested for harassment. That might convince him to voluntarily stay away from the house but I bet it would throw up all sorts of new issues and turn nasty fast.
3. I leave the house and rent a place. That will cost me 6000 approx( 6 months rent on tiny London studio flat) that I don't feel I need to spend.
4. pack up myself and DD into the car and go on holiday for a few weeks. Tell H he's pushed me over the edge with his controlling demands and that he'll be hearing from solicitor re divorce, in the mean time I'm not available as I've left town. Job would be compromised possibly lost.But I could easily get another one, TBH I should be looking around anyway.DS could stay in London and look after cat.
5. injunction. 2-3k plus implications as per 2.

And all this just because I won't drop everything and come out to join him at his demand. Obviously it's been going on since forever and building up but I am so clear now that I haven't done anything wrong. Nice weather, etc. Everything else in my life is good. But this is intolerable, I feel very pissed off right now.

Ha ha ha ha....I made a difference!

"Spaghetti head mess" is a song I wrote when I was in the middle of all this. Funny, because in the middle of the night I was thinking about finishing the darned thing and getting it released...well there's serendipity for you!

Must get on with it then.

Freaked.

We stopped working on it because the guitarist I found had sent a file that seemed to be out of tune. He wasn't. It was just manipulated to sound that way to sabotage the fucking thing...again. bastard twat. It was because it was someone that I knew, not one of his eating disordered, alcoholic wanky friends playing on it.

He sabotaged so much of my work.

Evil shit.

Thatsnotmynamereally, why would anyone want to have sex with someone who is almost passed out? You know it's technically rape and he knows you know this. So now why did he do this?

Because he's testing to see how far he can go.

I would report it and get this over with once and for all. He will know you are serious when the police turn up and take him for questioning. With your type of abuser I would say this is the only thing that will change his behaviour.

unreal I will go to the police. The emails he sent last night clearly show that his pattern of harassment and sense of entitlement aren't changing and are so entrenched he can't see it. Yes I've given him so many opportunities, too many. Solicitor, friends etc all seem to say to me that they think I've bent over backwards for him, that I am a 'saint' to put up with him, etc but I still feel that he needs to see that he is doing wrong. If he won't hear it from me he needs to hear it from someone else who he will listen to. He's not scared of the police as he thinks he has done nothing wrong and being held in a cell overnight before only resulted in him thinking that he's a victim of an unjust system. I think GP has talked to him but I've had no report of what was said. He's in contact with our friends for which I am grateful but they seem to think we have mutual marriage difficulties I know that the only thing H wants is for me to capitulate, it's a control thing. My problem as H puts it. Well it's not me, it is him, and he won't be happy until he's got total control over my life. Just had a text from him (I'm at work) suggesting I come out and bring a book to read. There must be a technical name for this type of mental delusion. Am I right to be afraid of his reactions??

What's doing it this time is... I really have not done ANYTHING to cause this latest outburst of vicious harassment. My crime? I won't come out to stay alone in a house with a man who continually shouts at me, tears me down, and criticises everything I do, and who only seems to be happy when I am cleaning.

If you go to the police, let them do their job. Let them arrest him. Press charges. That alone will allow you also to get legal aid, and then the injunction will not be £2k. Also, it might get you an emergency injunction anyway. Ask the domestic unit at the police for help, they can guide you through it all.

Hey thatsnot - just wanted to say that I hope you can find the strength to go back to the police, and report the continued harassment and the rape as well. I will admit to you that I went cold when I read that, and I feel sick and slightly tearful thinking about it. The way you describe it and minimise it - I know it feels unreal, I know it feels like all this can't be happening to you. But you are very unsafe around him. He took your books and threw them away. He then he raped you - possibly as a measure of punishment and to put you back in your box so he can control you again. He will not stop there. There is a lot more spaghetti-headedness to come, Charlotte is totally right, finishing things doesn't mean a stop to that for a while. But you can do this.

pony yes my blood goes a bit cold as well when I look at the big picture, but mostly I'm feeling white-hot fury! I feel so angry right now. I still don't know what to do for best.

Have reported the harassment to police, it's out of my hands now as they will decide whether to arrest or not, all written up. Policeman stressed that injunction would only work if we were officially separated, ie divorce proceedings started. H still hasn't got the message and insisting I come out or he'll come back. Policeman was seriously wondering if he needs a mental health assesment.... grrrr. I cannot make that happen.

Thatsnotmyname - clearly this is the only route you can take. There is no alternative and it has all the solutions. A lot of support kicks in if there is evidence of violence, for a start you will get to stay in the house, get legal aid, generally get to call the shots (depends on circs and I don't know yours exactly but afaik).

Just remember what he has done - it's not normal to want to have sex with someone who is unhappy, who has tried to end it, who is drunk and half asleep. Why would you do that? Because you can then go about to everyone and say 'no, everything's fine, back in the bedroom last night', and he will then hope that you are then beaten into submission to the next level of abuse where you accept on a regular basis that rape is just happening to you because you are drunk, or you're a bit of a soft touch, or you should have locked the door, or...

I do believe that's how it works - the harder you fight the harder they do and every battle they win takes it down to the next level of abuse for you.

thats, sorry I have not been on, just reading this.

It is not technically rape, it IS rape. The law is quite clear on that. Rape is about control, it is not about sex. I have been raped by an ex who I let stay in my house. It is a horrible thing to happen, it took me a long time to get over, and to see how clearly it was calculated. Do not minimise it. I am really very sorry this has happened to you, and I am going to reiterate, it was NOT your fault in any way.

Please do everything you can to keep this man out of the house. Report the rape and change the locks. What is to stop him letting himself in when you are asleep? Start divorce proceedings. This will not be fixed, and you need to stay safe.

I have copies of both books he took. PM me a safe address to send them and I will post them to you.

The time after I left my marriage was very difficult as controlling people do not like to lose control. I posted a lot on here and was supported by lovely people. You can and will get through this.

Practical point: do you need to/have you taken the morning after pill?

Sorry for asking. It is just one of the things which still bothers me, that I have no idea if my ex used a condom (I was asleep when he started and completely hazed out afterwards, and did not think about it at the time).

You don't need to reply to this post, I just didn't want to leave that aspect uncovered.