Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

It's odd, isn't it? Because I sometimes think that my KD actually has "conveniently forgotten" everything he did as well. I suspect it's a simple matter of he's spent so much time convincing everyone else he's done nothing wrong that he believes it. Or that he truly still actually DOES think that what he did was wrong, so not worth remembering. Heaven only knows.

Mine doesn't believe he did half of what he did. He believes much of what he did was justified. And that what he did to the children was reasonable parental chastisement (dragging dd1 into a shower, fully clothed, and pouring shampoo in her eyes ).

He has admitted the physical stuff and much of the emotional stuff (with justification offered) but he has flatly denied any of the sexual stuff. Yet just before we split, I told him that sometimes when he had sex on me I would cry, but I guessed he hadn't noticed... oh no, he knew. He knew and just carried on anyway, knowing I didn't want to and was crying about it

He has fully re-written history. His counsellor (not an abuse specialist) has written a report for court which is utterly laughable. I hope she's reading this because then she will know that I will soon be reporting her to her governing body for unethical behaviour (

Leclerc I'm only 6 months post separation and bloody hell has he made it hard to detach, and for the most part he's continued the abuse, just tweaked it to suit the new situation, and used our 3 small DC to control me (or at least attempt to). All of this continues to be my fault, just as it was my fault during our marriage. I obviously made him emotionally, mentally and verbally abuse me. I made him aggressive and destructive. Well of course I did..I no doubt deserved it too . And he's probably not so much 'forgotten' it, I suspect he's more likely decided he was justified or I blew it out of proportion or he 'wasn't that bad'...

tis, thing is, just now you are in recovery from being in an abusive relationship, and it is still on-going with the legal stuff and your dd's situation. He is not just the kid's dad, he is the person who made your life hell.

I think for me, and I recognise I am only speaking for myself here, there is a clear distinction between how he was with me, and the relationship he will have on-going with ds. For the latter, whatever he did to me is irrelevant... DS relationship with his father must be judged on its own merits, and all I can do is help ds grow into a rounded individual to make his own judgements. As far as DS is concerned, xH is his dad and that is that; nothing negative will be said.

But the way I relate to ds dad, the minimum contact and the policed boundaries, that is because of the way ds's dad was with me, which was abusive and made me ill. Trying to sort the separation made me ill. So, because he is now being charming, and trying nice-ness, I need to remember he is not just dc dad; he is dc dad who made me ill. He is not my amicable co-parent.

So I get the point about KD being for detaching, and I think that is great, none of this is meant as a criticism, really and truly, but for me, he is xH, because the x denotes the finality with me, and that is what defines the tone of our parenting, and maintains the boundaries in our communications. I think it is just a different way of looking at it, maybe.

Nice to "see" you Tis and to hear how confident you sound.
I used to post as LittleHouse but life moves on! I have now left my little house and moved to a Huge House with my Very Nice Man who I have been with for three years.

My FW has long since forgotten how badly I "made him" behave when I dared to say I wasn't happy and wanted to leave. He cannot remember why I won't share a car with him, or that he raped me before I moved out.
He goes out of his way to be generous and helpful and is an excellent father to his DC (hooray). My DP thinks he is a nice man. But so does everybody who wasn't party to his abuse of me.

No matter. I don't have to have anything to do with him now.
Curt and Alice you are doing so well to enforce boundaries. Be strong!

Bluebell that makes perfect sense. We're all going to deal with stuff a bit differently, as we've all had different experiences. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's all about what works best for each of us IMO.

I'd obviously prefer NC and not have to deal with him at all. The reason we separated was because he was abusive not just to me, but physically and verbally abusive to the dcs as well. So it makes detaching important for me, as I need to physically supervise any contact to keep them safe.

KouignAMann I think that we all struggle to some extent with that niggling idea that while we had to deal with all his behaviours, the FW/ex/whatever we call him, he has basically just walked away from it all and not learned anything. They've often not admitted wrongdoing or faced their issues or been "punished" in any way. And sometimes it's just frustrating and demoralising to have to be civil to them, when they've wronged us (and our dcs) so much.

Alice, I know, that was why I was clear I was only speaking for myself. Unfortunately, NC is not possible when you have dc, but you have to have a proximity which must be difficult to handle.

I struggle when I see my DC who are young adults suffering as a result of living with their DF. Now I have a proper home again they are gravitating back towards me which is nice. But I can see they get very stressed and oversensitive as a result of treading on eggshells round their DF and have to be "detuned" back to normal after spending time with him. They are good at spotting his attempts to control with generous gifts, and fairly immune to it. But they defend him hotly if I say anything critical so I just swallow my words and talk generally about issues rather than relating them to him.

Nodding along to the interesting posts of today, but totally exhausted now term has finally ended, so I'm just posting to clarify, Alice, that I was only suggesting you pretend to ignore the DCs, not that you really tune out. I hope my post didn't come across as judgey.

KA, yes, this is a concern of mine as ds gets older - that what DF wants goes. At the moment, ds can't really cope with the length of daytime contact and is resisting overnights, so I am not saying we have no issues; just that I don't get involved and discuss the day to day stuff, more do my best to support ds with the contact schedule (which I have negotiated to the best of my ability, a whole other set of frustrations).

But yy to generous gifts, ds did say to me the other day, daddy always buys me new toys. I think the only thing I can do there is not get competitive, and keep to my own path as regards what ds needs/wants. I say that because xH tries to better me in what ds has and it is obvious.

Hi all, just checking in to give myself some perspective. Today is my D-day, in that its the last 'social' occasion which we have planned for the summer (DSs uni graduation, he's done brilliantly and I am ridiculously proud of course) and I know you'll all believe me when I say H is already spoiling it. We've been in separate houses since Tuesday as I've been in London to work (at my 'crappy job' for which I get paid 'less than a cleaner' so evidently I 'cost him money'. All so not true!) so, I'm planning on meeting him there. I sent him details via email link ages ago. Ive taken the day off work. Yesterday he called me at work and asked what time we were turning up-- he'd expected us to come out to him so we'd go together... It is not a great distance for either of us but my priority will be getting DS to where he needs to be, on time. Plus H expected me to get some clothes sorted for him to wear. Pathetic, he can surely do this himself as I know he's got some decent clothes out there, as I sorted them out for our social occasions last week. DS asked if H could bring his smart shoes, which he'd left at other house as he took the train back after same social occasions (which we 'forced' him to come to) and H said no he couldn't be bothered to look for them. So I had to run out to Clarks last night and buy him another pair.

Sorry for the essay/rant but I'm seeing so clearly that H is making the day all about him. He thinks we'll join him for the weekend but when I asked DS is he wanted to go out there for a celebration meal he said no... Actually he said he would rather cut himself than go out there. I found that a very strange choice of words, he's not outwardly emotional but he is very clear in what he wants. He is 21 and I love having him around (living at home) but H expects him to be under his control. Sad really. How can H call him a 'lazy little sh!t' when he's done great at uni, worked on a project this summer that he's getting paid for, and got a great job lined up starting September? DD on th other hand is a people pleaser, she's been out in the countryside with H all week. She's ok, realistically knows that he'll give her money etc if she's nice to him, plus she's back for her second year of uni in September so not too long to go. She's renting a house with friends next year so I don't think we will see as much of her.

So, July 18th, the day I've tried to keep things together for as I didn't want DS having his graduation spoiled. It turns out that DS doesn't care a bit about the ceremony. He would be pleased if H wasn't coming, I wish I'd never told H about it. He's so self-centred he wouldn't have noticed.

KA when you say you wouldn't share a car with him do you mean his driving scared you? I can so relate to what you've said about your kids.

Is anyone else obsessed with what happened to the family in Spring, Texas? I can't stop thinking about it.

Hello everybody, I posted a while ago. Guess what? We've had the longest period of "Mr nice" , I was so fooled. And now I'm back. If you're reading this and thinking your FW will change, I don't think that's going to happen sorry.
The saddest thing is being back, reading everyone's posts and relating or recognising a lot. I just feel so sad.
Thanks, I know you understand xxx

Mr nice since March but don't be fooled!

Daisee how long were you together and what are you going to do now?

Daisee sorry to see you back, but pleased you are because it proves you're seeing clearly what is happening (if that makes sense). I think there are many of us who have been taken in again and again and again by the Mr Nice Guy act. After all, it's what got us into this mess in the first place isn't it?!

Oh we are still together, God only knows what I'm going to do really. We've been together 15 yrs and we're getting married (?) next year..... Just like everyone here it's not straight forward. My mum has a terminal illness, my name is not on our house deeds. This time it was over me being lazy and not putting washing away.

Ty Time, you are right xx

Tisl!

What did he do Daisy? If there is abuse you will get to stay in the house. You don't have to marry him for that.

thatsnot yes, that spring texas incident is horrible. I imagine the ex wife that he was looking for is in bits. poor family.

daisee are you safe? what happened? I don't remember the details, but do you have dcs?

thats, so nice to hear from you! Don't know if you see it, but you sound stronger. More reconciled to the fact that he will do FWy things and that's just who he is, iykwim.

I hope DS has a great day. And I hope your D-Day feels like the start of something knew. You deserve so much better, lovely.

I just don't know what to do, how to leave. DS had a lovely graduation day but H managed to make it all about him, complained about everything, at the lovely champagne reception he went ballistic at me because I hadn't organised a family meal (and I 'don't know how to be a mother') and stood in a corner of the quad, sulking. BTW I hadn't organised anything because DS didn't want to go and I knew H would insist on it being out where our other place is and I knew that DS absolutely did not want to go there. DS would have been fine if th arrangements were local.

So- the kids walked off out of the reception and said they would take the train back to London, H ranted furiously at me and said he was so depressed because of my actions and that he had been thinking of slitting his wrists. I just walked out. I wasn't sure what to do at that point but I caught up with the kids, DD suggested to DS that maybe we should just do the dinner and get it over with. DS said he would go for a dinner as long as he could come back home (London) afterwards. H called me at that point so to smooth things over I proposed that. H said we could do that then I could drive DS back to London, then turn around and drive back to join him and DD in the other place. Well, this all went to plan (not a very fun dinner) except when I got back with DS I decided I didn't want to drive back... So got furious texts and phone calls. At 11:00. I just didn't want to go. So he accused me of having planned it like that so I could avoid him. Too right.

Sorry for another long essay but I'm now furious. I'm expected to drive out this morning to join them. I need to leave this stupid situation, where he controls everything with his stupid bad moods but I no idea how to do it for best as I have job etc. I've got some access to money, not loads but a stay at a hotel would be an option. I don't think a refuge as he's not specifically violent although that might change. Or I could line up a 6month rental while we put house on the market etc. but the thought of that makes me really sad as this place is ok and cat, DS are here. And all DDs belongings although she's happy to stay in he other place with H for now as she just likes to read and go for walks, she says that H is fine until he thinks of me (?) then he becomes irrationally angry.

I think I can guess what she means- its not that he is thinking of ME it is that he occasionally suddenly sees a gaping hole in his life where his 'wife' should be- that is, his wife who anticipates his every need, fulfils all his expectations, never complains etc. he gets angry because that person is not there and I am a crappy second rate selfish b*tch who most recently won't even try to pretend she's trying (making an effort he calls it).

PS charlotte thanks, I wish I could just leave him. and I take inspiration from your experiences! alice yes it's truly awful especially as there is no way anyone could have predicted that, tragic event no no one's fault (except that horrible man) but I keep scouring the story to see what signs were there.

I was thinking of getting an injunction to keep H out of the house but I fear it would tip him over the edge as he'd feel hard done by, system is against him etc. I think it might be a better gesture on my part to go myself. At the base of all this is, I think, that I 'had him arrested' in December, he brings it up every once in a while. No remorse, just furious at me. But I have to remind myself I'd been posting on here about him for a long time before that happened.

I need to take action. It's going to be hard.

thatsnot okay, I'm sorry to have to say this, but his behaviour is getting dangerous now. Threatening to slit his wrists is not "non-violent" and is controlling at best. The problem becomes when does he decide that instead of taking himself out, he'll take you out? Or what if he decides to take you or the DCs out with him? I'm sorry, I know it sounds alarmist, but honestly, people DO plan things like this (I know this sadly from personal experience) and people DO fly out of control and do drastic dangerous tragic things (I believe that texas thing highlights it quite sufficiently).

It seems like you are constantly on high alert - that you are not ever allowed to make any decisions yourself without him coming unglued. Because of this, you are going to feel like you cannot leave or everything will fall apart. Or if you leave, and he hurts himself that it will be your fault. It won't.

At some point, you have to put yourself FIRST. Your safety FIRST. Your happiness FIRST. And even your kids FIRST. Because staying with him clearly isn't for their benefit - they're very obviously struggling with this, based on what's been happening, so they're not benefiting at all either.

So who are you staying for? It sounds like it might be for him, perhaps because you feel responsible, worried, guilty? Please think about yourself and your dcs first, and get yourself somewhere safe. I know it sounds easy for me to say, but you must remember that a house is just bricks and mortar... it's not worth putting yourself in danger for. You can get out and let solicitors haggle over property. The important thing is to be safe and happy.

Alice that's exactly the situation, I do see it but am just unsure exactly what to do, when we often compromise as last night, do what he wants and suddenly everything is smoothed over/OK again. It seems selfish to stop smoothing over when smoothing over solves the problem IYSWIM and I'm not trying to be alarmist but that man in Texas has freaked me out as his lawyers are going to say he was mentally unstable due to his situation re his wife leaving, I bet he wasn't but knew he could use it as a defense. NB I really hope that won't upset anyone else but it's out there, so to speak, so I mention it.

I just wrote a long post to start a new thread yet again about my situation but decided not to post it as I've done so many before... maybe I will, I can take being criticism being anonymous on here.

I'm seeing a counsellor but when I ask her 'what should I do' , 'is this OK', etc, she just says 'what do you think?' and I'm getting frustrated because I can't seem to move on.