Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

he is for now... but he's still complaining about the location of the visits

Curt, "made him uncomfortable by being too nice" now I've heard everything!! Good lord, they have to make trouble whatever the situation is, don't they! I think that's the problem - their default psychological setting is "trouble" so that's what they seek out and create if there's none existing. It's taken me a while (years ahem) to realise that about my fw. And the problem was, his desire for trouble and guilt tripping and blaming tallied nicely with my own issues. But as I said to him recently, which he hated, "I've worked on myself over the years and sorted myself out. I'm ok now, so we don't fit anymore because I can't live with your type of character anymore." Horrible that he took advantage for so many years of my vulnerability and insecurity and that he can now promise to treat me with respect because I've changed! The cheek of it!!

breathe It's like they can't function without drama so they create it where there is none.

My very own fw has said he likes this 'new' me and if I'd always been like this we wouldn't have separated. Errr...I'm like this because we separated!! And I was like this in the early days of our relationship, it was him and his abuse that killed 'me' off!

Round and round we go. I sent him a text saying I'm happy for him to visit saturday or sunday and if I don't hear from him by tomorrow night, I'll make my own plans. The rest is up to him.

Well done for being firm, you're doing the right thing. Mine said the same to me about how if I'd been more like this during r/s it wouldn't have deteriorated. Idiots the lot of them!

Curt yes, definitely well done for being firm.

Breathe he said that?? what a twat.

I am well and truly irritated today, and add to that, I am frustrated that I've allowed it to irritate me. If you've followed THAT so far, you're doing well.

KD has asked me twice now by email for me to tell him what the dcs like so he can buy them birthday presents.

Now, I may be overthinking things, but this is my thoughts on it...
1- if he'd been a decent dad to them, he'd know what their likes are.

2- if he'd even bothered to LISTEN to them on that last visit, he'd know what their likes are, because they were both trying to tell him about things they liked but he was obviously not really listening

3- what he really wants is for me to just tell him a particular toy/item that they want so he doesn't have to figure it out on his own (and then he can take credit for knowing to pick out just what they wanted)

4- no matter what I suggest, he will complain that he doesn't have the money for it anyway

5- argh!!! what's the point?? how hard is it REALLY to come up with something a 4yo and 7yo will like?? really??

I haven't answered the email because it galls me to have to tell him. But if I don't answer it, then I look like the nasty one because I won't tell him what they like. No matter WHAT I do, it's going to leave a nasty taste in the mouth, isn't it?

question, hypothetical -

do you think it is better to set phone to block calls and texts, with no way of knowing you are being contacted, or leave them unblocked, so you have a log of all harassment for police if needed?

maybe I'm not sure if you've already tried the legal route but evidence in the form of texts etc is useful. I've been speaking to the police about getting an injunction and/or issuing a harassment warning (2 separate issues legally) and as I understand, if I ask him to stop harassing me by text and he continues to its clear documented evidence. Also if your responses are nonexistent or clearly reasonable it shows that you are not making it up.

On the other hand if he's out of your life and you can ignore, blocking is a clear line that you're no longer engaging. Personally at this point I'd rather know than not know what he's saying and if he's becoming more threatening but that's my situation.

Sadie I have two mobiles. One is the old one with the number that stbx has for me, as well as other members of his family. Then I have my new one that everyone else has (and ex and anyone related to him doesn't have).

The old one is put on silent, I check it regularly when I am comfortable checking it, kept at home, while the new one is carried with me all the time.

Text from KD "Why couldn't you have been like this all the time curt? It would've saved our marriage. I know you want a second chance, I understand your agenda now ..I'm just not sure I can risk it."

Ahahahaaaaaa..what?? really?? My agenda?? You mean the 'hoping he'll act like a grown up and a decent dad to our DC?' That agenda? Methinks he's mistaking my compliance as something else entirely.

I was like 'this' in the beginning and it was 'this' that you sought to destroy. Or have you conveniently forgotten what you did?! He knows I want a second chance?? I'm posting here so I don't send him a huge long ranty text that will give him the satisfaction of knowing he's got to me.

Goodness... I will keep an eye on my email. Guess it's my KD's turn now to tell me that. So predictable they are, eh?

and curt did you laugh yourself silly over "I know you want a second chance" ??? He's looking for a response. Don't give him one.

I'm still holding off responding regarding KD asking what the dcs like so he can get them birthday presents (with the money he constantly tells me he doesn't have? ). The overwhelming urge to tell him if he doesn't have a clue what they like or what to get them, he's got nobody to blame but himself.....

Eurgh. I gave my KD one example of what DS likes, what I had got him. He told his family and friends and DS got tons of it for his birthday. It doesn't matter: it's the sort of thing you can just add to, but it grated rather that by the time he opened his present from me (last, as it happens), the DC's attitude was, "Oh, more of that!" and I looked like the unimaginative one.

Grates more because KD has loads of present-buying family and friends and I have none (and party was at his house this year), so present stash at this house is almost zero and is a roomful of stuff there.

Anyway, it's not a popularity contest. I'll keep on telling myself that. Of course, it is for KD and I get sucked into that mindset if I'm not careful.

alice it certainly made me chuckle..and it's contact day tomorrow (amongst the 'second chance' twaddle was an affirmitive for saturday at noon) so that should be interesting.

KD hasn't got a clue what our DC like..he bemoaned being 'out if touch with their likes and dislikes' last week. Ans yup..these eejits only have themselves to blame.

Mcds for noon tomorrow (busy city centre on a saturday - fun times)..not sure I'll be able to stop from shooting mcnuggets down my nose in hysteria if he mentions my 'second chance' again

Curt hahahahahaa at snorting chicken nuggets

Charlotte I'm definitely not competing. I've had their birthday presents bought for a couple months. The minute he stopped paying maintenance, I made sure I bought their presents, just in case money got tight around their birthdays. I've just started picking up little things for Christmas. (Just FYI in case anyone is interested, poundland had a few "wintery/Christmassy" type children's books this week)

alice curt well done to both of you for not engaging! Both on telling him what to get for their birthdays, and on engaging on whether or not you are going to beg for getting back together...

DD has come back from some time at her Dads having confided at last in a teacher whatever was bugging her. She said the teacher gave her good advice, but didn't want to talk about it. i've said that's fine - the main thing is that she has someone she trusts to talk to.

She has also come back explaining how Daddy told her that he was the one who has brought her up, not Mummy, and therefore she should be with him all the time. And then asked her to agree with him. So now she feels guilty for agreeing with him even when she didn't mean it, but also scared of him finding out that she wasn't telling the truth. Grrrr.

And we're now into the second week of phone drama. She is required to phone him every night. I have told him that he should phone her. He can't believe I would say such i thing. If he ever phones, it's about an hour after her bedtime, as he's waited to see if she'll ring first. She's either asleep or having trouble dropping off, and is therefore disturbed further. So I've emailed him telling him the phones will be muted at her bedtime, and he needs to phone her before that time. I now have sweaty palms at the thought of his reaction. I hate how intimidated I still am, at the thought of what he might do.

Noregrets I think you may need to consider cutting down nightly phone calls to once or twice a week. I wonder if perhaps he is using those phone calls to reinforce the upset and guilt he is inflicting on her during his visits. As much as you needed headspace and time away from him to clear your head, I suspect she may now need the same thing.

That has occurred to me - but then I'd need to do the same when she's with him.But I worry about her, so like to check in each night. tbh now I've finally set some restriction I suspect he won't phone often at all.He'll just use this as another thing to blame me for lol

Hmmm... yes, I can see your point. It's so hard to juggle all this, isn't it?

Well done, Noregrets, for muting the phones - that's a good response. I'm glad to hear that your DD now has somebody to confide in. I presume her teacher is aware of the bigger picture?

I have just heard that KD has got a new job. I googled the place he'll be working at and found that one thing they do is DV prevention workshops! Quote from website: One man who attended said: “I realised that helping my wife clean our clothes and our house, and look after our children is also my job, not only a woman’s job in our family.” Let's hope KD gets a chance to attend one of these workshops!

Contact today - mcds, wander round town, soft play centre. As my mum would put it 'playing happy families.' But I came home with 3 very smiley tots. So yes, DM, maybe I've had to swallow my pride a bit, but better this than strops from KD and upset, confused DC.

And now to the entertainment.

KD: I blame myself for our marriage failing, curt.

Me: .....

KD: Don't you have anything to say to that?

Me: Nope, you said it all.

KD: ..

Me: ....

Really glad he left that nugget until I was 2 minutes from home, as the awkward silence after that was unbearable. I've had one text this evening saying even when he admits blame it's not good enough for me, and what do I want from him. What I want is for him to be a decent dad. That. Is. All.

Curt at his What a numpty. Seriously. Just ignore the text. Well done for getting through the contact and glad your dcs could enjoy it.

I still haven't answered KD re his question about the dcs. It just irritates me that he even had to ask. He hasn't asked again. I imagine if he doesn't then get anything, he'll blame me for not telling him. But I don't care. I'm tired of being his PA.

Charlotte he'll probably take the mickey out of the "poor deluded men" that attend them. KD would actually make all sorts of horrible comments about the "filth that abuse their children." Even after he abused ours. There are none so blind, I suppose...

Hey all. Sorry to see this is still such a fast-paced and well-used thread.

I popped back a few months ago but I don't think I was quite ready yet to be visible again (stbxh discovered me on here...) whereas I am not so bothered now

I will endeavour to catch up with the latest doings soon although I'm not promising - I'm moving 'home' next weekend so I'm up to my eyeballs in packing! My dcs and I have a fresh new beginning in a fresh house which is all ours, no nasty memories allowed. Life is good!

Leclerc oh how lovely - a new house with a clean slate! You must be so excited, even though it is a lot of work! Don't overdo it getting it all unpacked - take some time to enjoy the moment.

Alice I'm actually completing the purchase on Tuesday but not moving until the Thursday/Friday so I plan a few 'empty house' walks in between. And I'm totally doing this at my own pace - there's no rush to unpack, just taking my time to find the perfect place for everything.

I'm so lucky - some friends here have given me a few bits and bobs to help christen the new place including a new bed for dd2 and a lovely 32" tv for my lounge. I'm so looking forward to doing it how I want, with colour and life. Some of the old timers might remember my big leap last year when I decorated my little sanctuary and how difficult it was for me to embrace colour and choice. Well not any more! I can't wait to get cracking!

I'm a total convert to colour in the house. After years of magnolia, I've painted my living room a pale grey and I cannot believe the difference!! So I've been eyeing up the rest of the house with a view to add some colour to this place!!