Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

blimey longer than I'd intended sorry!

Noregrets sorry, I read your post earlier but was on my phone and I am notoriously bad at typing on my phone, so figured I had better wait until I was at my laptop to answer.

It does sound rather odd that suddenly she is uncomfortable sharing with you. I wonder if he's really putting the pressure on her emotionally right now? Do you think he may have told her that if she told you anything that you might stop him seeing her, which would push him over the edge, something like that? She may feel responsible for his well-being.

Have you ever just laid it all on the line with her? Told her that you're concerned that he is pressuring her and that you realise he can be quite full-on with the guilt and as she has seemed rather withdrawn lately, you are concerned that something is going on? Explain that while you don't like having to make decisions like cutting contact, if he is doing something unhealthy and possibly dangerous (like the drinking), then it's your responsibility to make sure she is safe. If she's old enough to listen to his pressurised emotional blackmail, surely she's old enough to hear the simple truth from you so she knows you're being up front with her. Maybe?

Wow, Noregrets, that sounds so hard. Such a difficult situation to be in. I have no advice, but what Alice says sounds good.

alice you're spot on entirely - he is completely putting the pressure on her, and I'm sure he's told her that I might stop her from seeing him, and he makes damn sure she knows how terribly miserable he is whenever she's not there (even if she is seeing him regularly).

I have already had very honest conversations with her, and she's aware that I'm worried about her. I've explained the dangers of not talking things through - how she can't get another perspective on what he's saying, can't confirm if it's OK. She's also fully aware of what he's like. She's asked me why he's like this. I've tried to keep it neutral by describing how some people think, and how it can make them behave, and she's said that's totally her Dad. She seems to know what he's doing, but thinks she can 'handle' it. Old beyond her years. [sad smile needed]

She's also due to go away with him for a small holiday in a couple of weeks time, and can't wait. I think she's trying to keep the peace until that's happened as she's worried I'll prevent her from going.

I think I need to see how things go over the next two weeks, and when they get back she's coming away with me for a while. I'm hoping at that point she'll be more relaxed and able to talk freely.

Am trying to remain calm whilst absolutely fuming that he would do this to her. I don't know if he even realises what it's doing to her. Sees me as the evil cow trying to come between him and his daughter. Never ever sees things from her point of view, assumes that I think like him.

Alright, so here's my plans (and I will apologise in advance for the length!!). I am planning on continuing offering contact for a few hours one afternoon, every other weekend. Whether or not he accepts that is up in the air. I feel that it allows for contact, means I can keep the dcs safe due to venue, and hopefully keeps it from becoming a situation where he is contacting me last minute demanding contact here and there. I am happy to increase the contact frequently over the summer to weekly (but only if he requests it), but I will not change the venue parameters.

Along this line, both dcs have birthdays during the summer. We have already made plans for a party with family and friends to which the KD is not invited. I am willing to drive the dcs to a location near MILs where MIL and KD can arrange a party in a public venue if they so desire to celebrate the dcs birthdays jointly. If they do this, they will need to provide any party items (cake, presents, and so on). I feel this is fair, as I am already paying for these items for our own separate party. This way they can invite other members of KDs family if they choose. This will be a one off thing - all other contact visits will need to be local to us.

I had thought about simply sitting back and seeing how long before KD actually requests contact again, however, this then leaves me rather at the mercy of his whims, which I feel is not the best way to proceed. I think offering regular contact (whether or not he attends) will demonstrate (if needed to court) that I am willing to allow contact (provided the dcs are in a safe environment), however, it will also allow me to make plans for our summer. I have already been asked by friends about outings over the summer holidays and would like to go ahead and plan them without stressing over whether or not there will be requested contact. This should make life a whole lot easier, allowing for contact while still giving opportunities for other summer activities to be planned.

Sound good?

Do you feel that she will be safe on that holiday with him (due to alcohol and possibly mental health issues)? Not judging, just genuine question.

I see what you mean, though. She's trying to balance it all and taking on all the stress and trying to be the adult and holding it all together when she shouldn't have to be worrying about any of it. How horribly frustrating for you to have to watch her struggle and want to help her. Other than reassure her that you will listen and take her opinion and wishes into consideration, I'm not sure what else you can do. Obviously if there is any concern that she is at risk in some way, she should know that if you have to step in, it's not to deny her access to her father but to safeguard her well being. Bloody difficult position for you.

Hi everyone, I have a problem with DP's behaviour which I need to understand. Not sure where it comes into the abuse scale but he constantly interrupts or blocks a discussion. When I'm discussing something serious with dds he interrupts with a stupid pun or a joke. My oldest dd mentioned it recently and said 'aw, daddy just needs attention' in a slightly patronising way (she's smart, 16).

Or am I just being paranoid?

I'm also noticing that whenever I'm settling down to study he seems to start bustling about next to me which interrupts me.

unrealhousewife What specifically do you do or say when he interrupts? And what is his reaction to that? Just helps to give a clearer picture if that's okay.

alice I think your proposals sound good. And definitely the right way to go - propose something reasonable. It's all about taking back the control instead of waiting for the next thing to hit you. Good plans, good parameters, good thinking in advance about the birthdays as well.

I feel OK about them going away, as they'll be staying with FWs family. That's about the only thing that I'm happy about really. It's a 4 hour drive away, but I'll make clear to DD that I'll drive and pick her up any time she wants me to. She has her own mobile phone.

unreal yes would be good to know more about the circumstances. Are there any other things he does which leave you uneasy?

Noregrets That's good, as there is at least other people there. I presume they would step in if he was to attempt to drive drunk?

I'm going to type up the contact arrangement information and email it tonight, I think. Might as well get it sorted.

The example was yesterday I was talking to dd about an important event and she needed it really clear in her head, he picked up on one thing she said and went on about it which just confused her. He didn't seem to see or care. He pulls funny faces behind my back sometimes. That kind of thing.

There is constant undermining happening in that he takes almost no responsibility for their behaviour or what they need to do unless I push him into it. It's like having a naughty, disruptive child in the house really. It's really hard work and I end up feeling like a controlling nag.

I've trodden this board before! Know all about abuse but wanted to hear views from from others. For a few years now I have expected nothing from him at all and that works well. Anything he does to help usually creates more work and stress.

Okay thanks that helps outline the situation more. I'm out the door for a while (school run) but didn't want you to think you were being ignored. Will be back later to post. In the meantime, I'm sure there will be others here as well.

unreal that's obviously very juvenile behaviour, and seems to be meant to undermine you. Is he always this way or is there any particular time or subjects discussed that he specifically seems to interfere with?

It's fairly consistent, when everything's going well he has a knack of bringing everything down somehow, or shifting the purpose of what it is we're doing. So, complaining when we're out for a meal, or not talking to friends when we're visiting, or buying things without discussing it - and any time things are discussed he somehow weaves it so he gets to do what he wants.

I think a lot of the behaviours find their source in the duluth model but are very very subtle. The Duluth examples are quite severe and obvious and he wouldn't get away with any of those things among my friends or family.

But his constant undermining is always little things, insignificant moments, but I don't understand why he does it. Why not go with the flow everyone else is going in?

Also, when we've asked him to change bad habits and he continues as though nobody ever said anything.

Does he do it with everyone, or just you?

helllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

just checking.

Hello Alice xxx

Hi Breathe Hope you are okay. Things settled down a bit?

I've sent an email outlining the visits over the next 4 weeks (basically 2, EOW). He hasn't asked for any more frequent visits, and to be honest, after seeing that he was fine with leaving after barely an hour last visit, I'm not surprised. I do sometimes wonder though, what in the world he does to fill his time? I have the dcs full time, and even when they're in school, I'm busy doing things related to taking care of them - baking, preparing meals, cleaning up after them, their rooms, their clothing, and such. And everything I do is scheduled around them for now, obviously due to their ages and such. But he's not working, he's not caring for them at all... I suppose he could be throwing himself into job hunting. Although based on his history, I kind of doubt it. This is not something that overly bothers me, mind you, I'm just puzzled by it all.

Sadly, he doesn't even have any idea what to get them for their birthdays and asked me in a message to tell him what they like now so he can figure out what to get them for their birthdays. I know, I know, at least he's planning on getting something. Although it wasn't mentioned until I said something to him about the birthdays, so I'm not even sure he remembered. I'd like to think he did, but who knows.

Honestly, I just feel sad, I think. He's their dad. He should be excited about their birthdays, planning something fun, regardless of finances (I've done birthday gifts in the past with very little money, just takes a bit of determination and perseverance - and creativity). He should want to see them more often than an hour or so every other week. I'm not complaining as obviously it's less stressful for me, but sometimes I get a bit sad at what they're missing because of his behaviour (both the abuse and the "can't be bothered" attitude).

This is what happens when I get really good coffee. I sit longer and think about things while I savour the coffee more. Note to self, buy cheap icky coffee next time Less thinking.

No don't buy icky coffee

It is sad what you describe. Worst of all the abuse obviously. But seeing your kids EOW, not knowing what they like etc- that's such a shame for your dcs but the main thing us they have a fantastic mum . He is missing out probably because all fws seem to have mental age of 12! Mine certainly does. He's responsible enough on the job front but emotionally he's stuck at entitled little boy of the family age.

Sadly, he is not responsible on the job front either. He used to be, but in the last 4-5 years he's not prioritised work much either, which means I probably won't be seeing any child maintenance.

alice mine plays video games in a darkened room 24/7. True story. What a thrilling life!

We're back to him not letting me know when he'll see them next as I've 'made him uncomfortable by being too nice..'

So if I enforce boundaries I'm an unreasonable bitch. If I relax and let him lead the visiting schedule, I'm too nice. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. Whatever.

Curt what a prat. I was very clear with KD that I expected communication by XX day if he was planning on having contact on the agreed upon days, or I would make other plans. So far, he's been sticking to that. If he decides he doesn't need to follow any type of schedule then I will simply make one up and either he sticks to it or he can bloody well go through the contact centre. I have a life and I expect to be able to live it without constant upheaval.

KD is probably browsing internet most of his time - possibly stalking me on here Hi!!

alice glad to hear he's working with you for a change. Each time I think we're getting somewhere, he pulls a stunt like this, throws me off balance and we're back to square one.

Ah well.