Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I haven't told them either, in case he bails out on it. They don't even know he's back in the area yet. As soon as he finds another girlfriend, he'll probably ditch them again anyway. Prat.

Interesting that your KD couldn't resist asking if you were alone.

alice best course of action when he's used their tears to control my behaviour. Instantly takes control away from him. And don't they just hate that loss of control.

He can't seem to help himself with questioning whether I have someone round or if I'm seeing anyone. In his words "You must be sleeping with someone by now." Must I really? Why?

I hope he doesn't view my holding back from dating as meaning I want us back together

Let's see... what are your options to answer that??

• No, I'm still a bit traumatised over how much of an arse my last partner was... oh wait, was that you?

• Sleeping? No, I wouldn't say "sleeping" necessarily.

I suppose you could be adult and just ignore. sigh. Just no fun, is it?

Ignore is my default setting recently, although I must admit there are times when I just want to either say..

"You treat me like shite and were a complete and utter b#%&*#d most of the time, which hads sadly wrecked any chance of me looking for another partner as I don't think I can ever risk potentially putting myself and our kids through that ever again."

or

"Yes, KD, you're right. You caught me out. I'm sleeping with oodles of hot young studs, they can't get enough of my milfiness and I've never had so many steamy sessions in my life.."

But I'm a grown up,attempting to take the high road (mostly), so as hard as it is sometimes to not want to tear a completely thruthful strip off him (see first response), or lie through my teeth so he hears what he wants to hear (see second response), I just set my default to ignore.

They don't even appreciate the effort we make to ignore them either. Ingrates.

Mine, having received divorce papers, keeps giving me one last chance to retract them, constant deadlines and ultimatums even though I've pretty much put a bomb under the marriage. What are they like?

Control- they can't handle losing it.

So true. Hope things are going smoothly for you now, Breathe.

alice mine has used pretending to text me "accidentally" as a means to engage, ive stupidly replied after weeks of no contact once when he did - it was also something obviousyl supposed to be for "another woman" but theres no way it was a genuine mistake

im at my parents today, last night was another ordeal. supposed to meet my friends together, so he threw a strop, didnt happen. lots of words... in a funny kind of bright side, had a bit of a breakdown in front of my parents. up until now... well they know a lot of his behavior through me, but hes very social and charming to them, theyve always taken the "you should work it out, you love each other" stance... including when ive been to the police, everything. for the first time they both told me I should end it. theyve never, ever said so before, always taken the view of us working it out.I blurted out something about how I cant end it... mum twigged, asked if it was cos of his stalking. tbh, one of the hardest things has been my parents taking "his" side in a lot of this. think that may have changed.

Sadie that's good that your parents are finally seeing things the way they really are. Do you think that having their support will allow you to make that break?

I don't know if the message was "accidentally" sent to me or "accidentally on purpose" to be honest. I don't really care, I suppose. It just shows he's up to his old behaviour already. Pathetic, really.

Well, that's done now. I'm planning on EOW, so 2 weeks of peace now, hopefully.

He was all cheerful and friendly, very obviously expected me to be chatty and friendly with him and was a bit put out that I was pretty quiet and didn't "chat" with him. He bought me a meal, even though I told him not to buy me any food - so then he kept trying to push me to eat, and then kept asking why I wasn't eating "have you quit eating now or something?" He tried to talk to me a few times, complimenting my hair and asking if I'd coloured it (as I have always done as long as he's known me, I'm a bit puzzled why that's news to him). I had to keep redirecting him towards the dcs.

Standard "oooh" and "wow" and "that's nice" responses to pretty much everything the dcs said. I doubt very much he understood much of it, as a few times one of them asked him something and he said "really? wow".

Very little interaction at library, although he did read a story to one dc, after being prodded a bit. Otherwise just sat there, didn't really help them choose their books, and was whinging at ds1 because he wanted to play with the toys instead of choosing a book.

The dcs asked for a treat, and he offered money to me saying "here use this to buy them a treat"... Told him I didn't want his money, that if he wanted to buy them a treat, do it while he was here. So he bought them a snack - although he had no idea what, so I had to direct him to a place. Then he was pretty much ready to go - conversation had all but dried up anyway, he was barely even looking at kids as we walked, much less chatting with them.

Total time of visit? One hour and 15 minutes. Barely. Seriously. And he was off and running.

Hi Alice that sounds typical fw 40 going on 12 (or however old the individual fw is!) couldn't cope with sustaining r/s with dcs without you.

Things not smooth really here although I've made good progress by presenting D papers. But we're doing this under same roof and it's horribly difficult as only a fw could make it!

Sadie glad your DPs are on side now- that must feel very supportive.

Breathe Yes. I noticed that for all his complaining recently that he didn't have recent photos of the dcs (and wanted me to email him some - most likely to put on FB to show what a great dad he is ), he didn't take 1 photo today, despite plenty of opportunity.

I honestly don't know how you can cope with your fw in the same house. I would go slowly (ok perhaps quickly) insane!! Fingers crossed you can be free of it all soon.

alice sounds like there was little enthusiasm all round with your contact today. Strained but not too stressful I hope.

Change of plan for us. KD requested contact in his new home, so I can see it's suitable for DC to be there. I then spent 2 hours in his decently furnished house with 3 very bored toddlers. He has no garden or tv and of course no toys, and he hadn't thought to buy in juice or snacks. Once the tickles and nursery rhymes had run out, he spent the next hour getting irritable with me over them not being able to entertain themselves, while also giving me the 3rd degree on my love life (or lack thereof).

I took them to the cafe and playground for an hour afterwards and he text to ask if I thought it had gone well and what could he do to improve it for next time. He appears very eager to impress me with his new home and new found desire to parent. Can't decide if that's for my benefit of DC's. I told him toys, juice, snacks and kept any further criticism to myself.

He's just text now to say it was good to see us all today and I'm free to drop in for coffee any time I like, for a chat or a bit of company. Hmm.

chat or bit of company? yeesh. No points for guessing his aim, then.

But on the flip side, this is a step in the right direction as far as you taking the dcs to his and letting him get on with visits (as long as you think he can cope with them obviously).

alice he's said he won't always want them to visit there, and if they do he won't have them without me being present. Other than playing with them, he hasn't a clue and if I attempt to 'tutor' him a bit for DC's sake, he gets in a strop as that's me 'telling him what to do'. He's made it very clear he won't want them overnight unless I stay too.

I'm trying to stay positive but I can almost feel the control sliding in his favour again. Need to not let that happen.

Set the guidelines. "Now that you have your place fixed up a bit, as of next week, you can have short visits with the children at your place. As I live so closely, it will be easy for me to drop them off with you and then I will come pick them up in an hour. We can then move it to two hours, and when you're more comfortable dealing with them regularly, then overnight." As long as you are comfortable leaving them with him, then perhaps just saying "there's no reason for me to be there. If you cannot cope with them on your own, then perhaps we need to look at a contact centre. It's not appropriate for you to be in my house all the time."

but again, that hinges on whether or not you're comfortable leaving them with him. It's pretty obvious he's using these visits to try to manipulate getting more time with you.

Either that or you bring a book along when going to his place with the dcs, and then sit back and read and utterly ignore him and the dcs and just leave the dcs to him.

alice Right now I'm not comfortable with him having them on his own, but I do like the idea of sitting back while I'm there and letting him get on with it, that way I can gauge how he'd manage if I left them for an hour at some point. He still doesn't have stairgates which he doesn't seem too concerned about.

I just wonder what he thinks the sleeping arrangements would be if I stayed overnight?! It's a non-issue right now anyway, as he has nowhere for our DC to sleep and I can't see him splashing out on cots/beds/mattresses/bedding or even just travel cots any time soon.

I wouldn't mention overnights anyway, if I were you. Let him suggest it if he ever thinks it's a good idea! FW asked me what was a reasonable schedule to see the DCs (then tacked on as many overnights to it as possible to keep his maintenance payments down) and I now feel it's too much for them and wish I'd asked for less. He's trying to impress me ("I've kept all the rules you add for the children, because I actually respect you more than you realise" ) so he's doing just what I ask for some things.

add? I mean had. I thought I was being slightly incoherent, but that's just silly!

Charlotte interesting how they get eager to please in between being fws. I guess it's a formula that kept us tied up for years yesterday mine was having dramatic strop, today calm and peaceful. It messes with my head because I see how it could have been but then the mask very quickly slips when something irks him.

Alice I think I will look back on this time and understand how bad it was but in the midst of it some kind of coping mechanism has kicked in. But it's bloody awful.

Hi everyone I'm tying myself in knots and getting really stressed working out what to do for the best. DD (9) has had an up and down relationship with her Dad, seeing him for a few nights a week, or refusing to see or speak to him for a month or two at a time. Each time it happens we work back up to a few nights if she's comfortable. At the moment she's seeing him, but is clearly keeping lots and lots bottled up. He tells her not to tell me things, which in the past she's told me anyway. Something's now changed, and she's not willing to open up. She's worried about her Dad 'getting into trouble' (I believe he's not sticking to things he's previously agreed to, like not drinking and not telling her to keep secrets).
She's worried I'll prevent her from seeing him (which I've never done, but which he's told her I'll do)
She's scared of him - he hasn't shouted at her in a long time, but she has awful memories so he no longer needs to.
She's worried he'll move away (which he's told her he's doing in the past, but then changed his mind when she's agreed to see him)
She's worried about him - when she's not seeing him, he hides himself away and doesn't even answer the phone. And then makes sure that she's aware it's because of her.
She no longer feels able to trust any independent person - when she spoke to school a while back about her concerns on staying with her Dad, this resulted in a referal to Social Services.
She knows exactly what he's like, but seems content to try to be everything he wants her to be, walk on eggshells rather than upset him.

I'd love for her just to decide she doesn't want to see him again. I know that I'm the Mum, and possibly I should just make that decision for her. But I feel that will cause a huge wedge between us, and damage our relationship, the one person she can rely on. It will also create some kind of wounded hero of a Dad.

Any clues? How to get her to open up? How to help her see that she's important too, and can't just bow down to his whims? Can't post anywhere other than this thread as I'll be accused of being a gutless wonder by people who have no experience of dealing with abusive narcissists.