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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

999 replies

CharlotteCollins · 05/04/2014 22:59

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 11:22

it's no worries, really. we're all here for support. I'm not judging.

And guess what. Stbx has responded regarding the contact offer. His response "does that mean I can see the DCs in your house?"

aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 11:23

so hey, you're not the only one that will probably be called an insanely unreasonable bitch today. Grin I imagine after I answer his message, he'll be calling me one. Hmm

CurtWild · 25/06/2014 11:36

Not shocked at all by his response, I doubt you are either. It's like talking to a brick wall. Ah well. Onward. Hopefully with added Cake Smile

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 11:37

Yes, Cake. I think I may make a batch of brownies (and then make sure I don't eat them all! Grin)

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 15:26

It's just insane. Emails back and forth, stbx still wanting to see dcs in my house and demanding again to know why not. So I finally told him due to previous aggressive and abusive behaviour that future contact visits need to be in a public place. He has fired back that I cannot make that decision without legal paperwork and that he has rights too. Hmm

I've sent him one final email stating that he doesn't have any right to demand entry into my home and that the contact arrangement stands. Basically he can either be agreeable or the contact visit will be cancelled. I'm not refusing contact for heaven's sake! Why is he so bloody insistent he be allowed in my home? He even suggested a "compromise" of bringing his mum along (which never curbed his behaviour in the past). But you know once he's been there once with his mum, he'll then demand to come in when she's not with him. So again, i said no. Holding firm. I suspect I'll be putting the solicitor on retainer very soon at this rate.

CurtWild · 25/06/2014 15:36

Oh dear alice, I had hoped you wouldn't have a day like that. Anyone can see you're not witholding contact, and you're absolutely right when you say you don't have to allow him entry to your home. It's NOT essential to his contact with your DC. Sadly mine doesn't 'get' it either. He hasn't been near us today but I'm ready with a 'these are my boundaries, cross them and I'll report you' text for if he calls.

Could you bring out the 'big guns' so to speak and say 'Look, I've given you the option of seeing DC in a public place, do you honestly think if you took me to court the judge would rule that I have to allow you into my home to see them? Go for it, stbxh, get laughed out of court.'

I don't know. It all sounds easy in theory but in practice it's bloody hard to take it to that next level.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 16:59

Curt at this point, I'm just holding firm to the boundaries. I don't actually want things to get ugly. I just want him to be cooperative and see the DCs in an appropriate manner - you know, actually be a dad to them. He's got to understand that he just up and left them. Deserted them for months. He can't just step back in and expect everything to be the same.

CurtWild · 25/06/2014 17:15

alice that's all I want from my stbxh too, the problem I'm having is if he didn't cooperate and wasn't reasonable while we were together, how the hell am I supposed to get him to be cooperative and reasonable now we're separated? While I'm sticking to my boundaries, my DC aren't seeing their dad and forming the proper relationship with him that I'd like them to have. Right now I do feel, in essence, that I am being obstructive. He's trying to see them, which is what I wanted, but because he's not doing it in a way that suits me, I'm preventing it from happening. When is it time to stop it being a battle of wills and concentrate on what's best for DC rather than what's best for me. This has been bothering me a lot lately.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 17:18

Why should you have to sacrifice your own needs/wants simply because he is not willing to behave like an adult? YOU are not being uncooperative. HE is.

CurtWild · 25/06/2014 17:27

That's pretty much what I come back to every time, it was just something my DM said that got me thinking..and she can't stand him! She just said.."if you really wanted him to see them, you wouldn't care how or where it happened." Strange stance for her.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 17:38

It's true though. If he wants to see them, he'll put the petty nonsense aside and cooperate.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 17:39

As I've said to stbx a number of times "it's all about your priorities...."

CurtWild · 25/06/2014 17:44

Priorities seems to be an alien word to stbxh..

Just had a text from him: Would you be happier if I called before coming over rather than just turning up?

I haven't formulated a reply yet. 'No' doesn't quite cover it. Think I'll have to email him a short novel, just to make sure I don't miss a point!

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 25/06/2014 17:53

Maybe just "I would be happier if you would only come over during pre-arranged contact visits. Barring that, if you feel the need to come over, please ring first so that I may tell you not to come." Grin

CurtWild · 25/06/2014 18:10

Hahaha Grin well he'd be walking right into that one!

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/06/2014 06:05

so what did you end up telling him?

CurtWild · 26/06/2014 09:13

Morning!

alice I told him to please choose a day/time to see our DC and stick to it. He responded by telling me I'm obstructing him from having a proper relationship with DC and forming a stronger bond with the twins in particular. And a load of other stuff about moving close by to be able to see them more, me being a devious bitch and having an agenda, who don't I want him to bump into at my home. Oh, and how can we get our marriage back on the rails if we don't see each other casually?!

I decided not to engage. Got a 'so now you're ignoring me' text and responded with my original message: please choose a day/time to see DC and stick to it.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/06/2014 09:26

curt well done! I think he's the one with the agenda - as is obvious from his comment about getting the marriage back on the rails. Hmm Unfortunately I think he's going to keep pushing those boundaries.

stbx sent me a message saying he was coming to the contact visit by bus, so I will sort out a place near the bus lines that he can meet us to see the DCs. It's so frustrating that he makes such a huge deal out of trying to come to my house. For heaven's sake, I was offering him contact with the DCs and he's willing to miss it simply because I am not allowing him in my house. It's just nuts.

CurtWild · 26/06/2014 09:44

alice glad to hear you stuck to your guns and he finally cooperated. It's all part of their continued attempt at control (you will let me in your home) and something a little bit more sinister. For mine I think it's continuing to 'mark his territory' and make sure I haven't got anyone lined up to replace him. If he's here and I get a text/notification he's straight off 'who's messaging you?' Errr..none of your business, mate!

I'm still waiting for him to pick a day/time btw, it's getting late notice for the weekend. Who's willing to bet he turns up today while he's 'just passing by'..

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/06/2014 09:50

The expression "marking his territory" makes me laugh. Is he going to wee in the corners of your house to mark it? Hmm Grin

I wouldn't wait for him to choose a day/time. Give him two options and tell him to choose one, and that he has until xxxx to choose or he gets neither.

And stbx has cooperated for now. I guarantee you he'll be all over me verbally when we're at the contact visit.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/06/2014 09:52

The comment stbx made about "as you don't feel comfortable being alone with me for some reason" means that he is going to be pushing this angle, and repeating his demands to come to the house. He will gaslight and insist he's done nothing wrong. Still not going to let him in my house though. It's my "safe place" and that's final.

CurtWild · 26/06/2014 09:57

Haha well that's how it feels! Maybe not literally weeing in the corners (I hope!) but certainly making his presence known and making sure no one else is here. Grr.

I'm free tomorrow or sunday, saturday we have a birthday party. So yes, I'll jist text him the options and take it from there.

Not to long since stbxh was cooperating too. Now we're back to 20 questions, phone calls and 'popping in'. Round and round we go. Six month separation anniversary in a couple of weeks. And still on the same old rollercoaster.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/06/2014 10:03

it's interesting you mention that - the cooperative, then 20 questions/bad behaviour, then cooperative again. I think it's the same abusive cycle that we had when they were living with us, just altered slightly to take into account that we're living apart. Not separated, mind you. Living apart - because to them it just means it's temporary. Hmm

CurtWild · 26/06/2014 10:08

Oh yes, living apart. Stbxh actually used that very term earlier in the week. How living apart these last few months has given us the space we needed and been positive for our relationship Confused

I think you're on to something there. It used to be bad behaviour then charming/affectionate then bad behaviour. They've just adapted the same abusive behaviour to fit the new situation. Bloody hell.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/06/2014 10:20

Exactly. Boggles the mind, doesn't it? They've just changed the scale of their behaviour, not the behaviour itself. It's like they're biding their time, which is actually a little creepy. Hmm

Now that I have sorted the date of the next contact visit, all that remains is for me to email the date/time/location confirmation to him. That means over the next 10 days he has no reason to contact me. At all.

A friend has told me that when she and her H separated, her solicitor advised her to write up a contract of the proposed contact visits, sign it, and send 2 copies to her ex - one to sign and return, and one to hold on to. Then they both had something in writing showing when contact was, neither could just back out on a whim, and it meant that he actually didn't need to contact her for anything other than the occasional "child-related" things. She said it cut down on the frustration for her quite a bit. I am considering doing this.

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