Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

charlotte..thats..glaring double standards with fw's..he can overreact but I can't..he can be dismissive but I can't..he doesn't have to explain himself but I do..oh yes, all that and the rest. Still exists even now we're separated. But then I'm only 3 months down the line and not doing so well at fully detaching yet. Thank god for the wisdom of the lovely ladies of MN helping me deal with it one day at a time

alice they're all cut from the same cloth it seems. But yes, you've really helped me gain some clarity today

Thanks charlotte, that's helped me so much. I've had an awful day and felt v v alone... Btw I do not have 'BO' , it was my perfume he was smelling. Dickhead.

Despite me making an effort, doing things nicely with a jolly attitude so I thought, he's torn into me or 'ignored' me in vicious ways all day. First I wasn't helping him work on the boat, then when I stood by the boat ready to hand him tools (wtf?) he was mad because he was working on it..he's only going to sell that boat but. When I said I could list it on eBay he went ballistic as he thought i wasnt appreciating his effort, i said it seemed like the boat (which is a crappy boat anyway) was more important to him than people and that made him mad. We were supposed to go see neighbours but he told me I stepped into the boat in an angry way (after he'd told me off for being lazy) and I, being v upset at that point, sat on the boat crying with sad rage so came back, awful afternoon as I couldn't get off the island, he got mad because I was in bed on iPad instead of outside.... We got a dinner invite so I was relieved, still v upset, got into car and drove 30 mins- the whole time he was telling me how crap I was, can't remember exactly why but I was sobbing when we got to destination , I got him out of car and drove off saying I had to get a bottle of wine, called women's aid (again FFS!) had a tearful 10 min chat which cleared my head.

Oh yes I remember what the problem was then- he got mad that I'd not told him (he says I lied to him) that DS was home from uni, not visiting an out of town friend like he told h, as DS changed his mind about going. He just finished his uni final exams and wanted to sit around and do nothing but play computer games for a few days- fine with me, he's worked hard and earned a rest. But h said why hadn't I brought DS out with me... And that he could get train out v early to come to a boat show with us tomorrow ... I texted DS to ask if he wanted to go and he immediately sent back no, and h furious that he won't come. Transferring abuse from me to DS and back.

Anyway got through dinner. Funny that it is ok when others around, but ride back was awful- I drove so he could drink, got criticised on my driving, etc. and basically told that he is not happy, the usual reasons all being to do with me. There's no point in talking to him. I need to talk to solicitor. I did a quick calc and wondered if I can buy him out of the house... Even to get him out for say a year would give me time to clear my head. Last time I spoke to solicitor he said I'd need to move out and that's where I got stuck- can't see the point of wasting money on rent when there are 2 houses. I cannot force h to stay out of one house but there might be a way. Sorry this is long but I'm writing it down to remind myself as I've already forgotten parts. And it was unbearable.

You write anything down you want to - and you know there's no apologising on this thread.

It's so draining to be told that you're wrong, whatever you do. Your weekend sounds so oppressive - and the fact that it's better when you're with others just shows how calculated it is, on some sub-conscious beliefs level in his mind.

Renting when you have two houses between you sucks as an idea, I agree. Although I did just that (our second house is rented out, though). And I just love the new experience of spending money that is mine in whatever way I choose, with no real comeback. But then I get a whole heap of benefits because of the DCs, which helps my income.

Hope you do find a way. Keep searching!

I think that even if you do decide to rent, despite having the 2 houses, you will enjoy it because it's YOURS. Your choice, your stuff, your space. I stayed in our property, but because there is no home ownership involved, it's a council property and ex's name is not on the tenancy. So as I cannot just move to a new "completely clear of ex and just mine" place, I have thrown myself into doing a lot of remodelling and decorating to "make" it mine IYSWIM.

Sometimes you have to do what's best for your mental and emotional health, and hang the logistics of everything else. Because when it gets right down to it, yes, housing is obviously important and needs to be addressed, and certainly you need to protect yourself financially... but a particular house? It's just bricks and mortar. There's definitely something to that expression "home is where the heart is."

So I've gone NC. As in I don't call/text etc. I respond in simple terms to his texts and don't engage if they're not in relation to our DC. If he calls I'm polite enough to answer and then pass him to DD1/twins and don't engage if he tries to talk to me about anything other than our DC. I think I'm finally 'there' withe regard to how I communicate with him. He doesn't seem to like it and hangs up on me if I won't talk about us/my faults/his issues. But I feel like I've turned a bit of a corner. I don't care if he hangs up, I don't call back or text asking what his problem is. I just..get on with my day!

So that's the update. Now here's the question. I signed up for something today and automatically said mrs when asked my title. Whilst still correct legally, because we're not divorced, it's not really applicable anymore, is it. Do any of you still use Mrs? Or do you use Miss? I'm a bit on the fence..not sure which is right! Help!!

I use Mrs. Just simply habit to some extent. And because I equate "Miss" with sweet young teens and 20-somethings, not women my age.

Use what you're comfortable with IMO.

Hi all, was worried I'd killed the thread with all my me-me ranting . H is away, I'm sensing bad vibes, he's demanded on the phone that I take Friday off work and come out tomorrow night. But I've been offered more work, a private job, via a mutual friend (mine and his) so am going to tell him I cannot. Also emailed local WA re legal advice. Called solicitor but bottled out , so hard to do from work. Also went to gp's for appointment about dodgy wrist and mentioned that DS wanted me tested for autism... Had a tearful chat and she put note on my file to the effect that I'm ok except for him...

curt I am now firmly and proudly a Ms and really pleased. Why should we reveal our status anyway- keep them guessing! To me with my anti-mysogynist hat on it seems like a cultural tag saying taken/not taken. I don't think we should define ourselves as being in the ownership of another. Or maybe if my situation were different I'd be proud to be mrs. Hmmm.

On a related note, I've always been a bit relieved to be married in mixed company, like at work, as dating etc seems so daunting. If it helps, I'd keep the 'mrs' if it feels safe.

thats there have been times I thought I'd killed the thread, newly separated, all over the place, wanting advice but feeling unable to return the favour. Seems this thread doesn't work like that

It took me many, many attempts to finally leave. Thankfully I got there in the end. I feel sure you're getting there, one step at a time.

I was a proud mrs (despite the abuse, it wasn't always like that), but now we're separated I'm not sure of the title anymore. But as alice says, miss is for the younger ladies, or the old spinsters, and I'm neither! Maybe I'll try out Ms..see how it feels.

I'm having a nostalgia moment about Ms magazine, which I grew up with as my mother was a feminist (put me off for life) but it's quite good! www.msmagazine.com/ the more I think about it... Ms makes sense. My DD is very much a feminist - it must skip generations as I've been far too traditional and h has taken advantage.

Yes curt I'm really hoping I can get the courage to do something ... H is unhappy as well (as I'm not his dream woman) so it seems a win-win situation to split. Simple?? Will find out! In the meantime it's inspiring to hear about you who've dealt with it already, I'm living in such horrid limbo. Walking on eggshells whenever he's around, deliriously happy when he's not.

I don't look at Mrs as necessarily married. My brain equates Miss as young, single, never married. Ms as single, possibly been married before, possibly professional type (and no I don't mean that as a negative!). Mrs as older, maybe been married, has children.

I think because as a child, when I played with friends, their mums were always Mrs Smith, Mrs whoever.. Never Miss and never Ms, really. So I just equate Mrs with either a mum or married (or both). Does that make sense?

Anyone's mum= Mrs. Makes sense! Really, I don't like Miss' as it sounds so unmarried ... so available. Mrs sounds unavailable. And Ms sounds stridently feminist with a women's rights agenda. We can't win !

You're right with mrs being someone's mum, alice, and I certainly couldn't go back to miss, which is what my ex sil did even before they'd divorced. And I hold my hands up to not being much of a feminist so maybe ms isn't for me either. Ooh. Not sure why this has become a conundrum today. Ho hum.

I am a feminist and I think we should just use Mrs for everybody, married or not. If everybody started doing it, nobody would know who was "taken" or not or whatever. But now we've got different titles, people have different favourites, so it probably won't happen.

But I'm going to keep on calling myself Mrs anyway, just like a French woman would be called Mme. Whatever her marital status.

It certainly would be easier, wouldn't it? I know some would look at it as clinging to the relationship, but for me it really isn't. I just associate women with children as a "Mrs" and that's that. When I was a child, it would never occur to me to question whether a friend's mum was a "Mrs" or "Miss" or "Ms" - she was a mum, therefore she was a Mrs, whether she was married or not. (we were not allowed to call grown ups by their first name - only by Mr or Mrs XXXX)

A bit of contact with ex this week, but nonstressful actually. It had the potential to be stressful, and I remember at one point thinking "a month or two ago, I might have turned this over and over in my head and stressed over it" but this week I just didn't. Very "meh" over the whole thing. I look at that as a good thing, detaching is getting easier. I couldn't even bother to be angry over a few things he said, so that's real progress for me.

Glad to hear the detatching is getting better alice and your time with stbxh was non stressful. I honestly think I'm getting there with how I react to mine. He called last night and a few things he said made my hackles rise, but I ignored it, gave 'oh right' and 'if that's how you see it' type responses. When he hung up, I didn't feel stressed or even bothered. He'd tried to get a rise out of me and got nothing. That felt good..that's progress for me too! I'm getting into the 'meh..whatever' mindset and it's far better! Long may it last.

CurtWild thankfully the contact was just texts. I'm not quite sure how well I can stay detached and not get annoyed in person. Future goals, I guess. Glad to see you're making progress in that regard though. Phone contact is particularly stressful for me, so I am studiously avoiding it. Texts or emails only. It lets me stop and think before I respond.

And yes, long may it last! Every time I have some type of communication (whatever it may be), and I am able to detach and react calmly (or simply in "meh" mode), I am finding it's just a teeny bit easier.

Excellent. No matter how many times I request text communication, he always calls instead. It's not the easiest thing to bite my tongue, but I've started just hearing 'blah blah blah unimportant babble and waffle about blame/marriage/my flaws/his social life' and I'm learning to zone out and only pick up on the bits concerning DC. Far easier to respond accordingly and not get uptight . And I can always come on here and have a bit of a rant and get it out of my system that way

I called ncdv this morning, had to leave my name and they wouldn't accept ms as a title- had to be miss or mrs.

I was hoping to get injunction to keep him out of house but cannot do it. Cant find anyone to talk to now, he's demanding i come out but i feel its unsafe. Been sending texts accusing me of not supporting him although he's ill. Depression, caused by me.

CurtWild I don't request text or email communication. It's the only way I will communicate. If he rings, I say "text me or email me, I can't talk right now" and disconnect. There's not a lot he can do about it.

thatsnot It sounds like you're fast reaching crisis point. If you don't feel safe, don't go. But ring WA and speak to them, find out what you CAN do to stay safe.

alice I think re the phone calls, I'm dealing ok with them and shutting him down if he tries to divert conversation away from our DC so for now I answer if he calls. I've made it very clear that if he shouts or is abusive in any way, I'll consider it harassment, report him, and he will lose the 'right' to call altogether. He huffed and said I was bluffing but I just saud 'try me, see what happens'. He seems to have taken that on board and has been well behaved in communication. It may be short lived, and if it is then I won't think twice about refusing all calls from that point. Feel far more in control than I did a few weeks back.

thats is there nowhere you can speak to about getting him out? How worried are you right now? Please take care.

CurtWild You're stronger than me. I KNOW I will go aggravated if I have to speak on the phone, that's why I won't.

alice I used to get really wound up on the phone..now I have my 'one strike and you're out' policy in place, I feel far more confident. If he shouts/swears/abuses etc, he loses the priveledge for good. Like you say..NO EXCEPTIONS. Definitely taken back some control there