Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Curt that sounds extremely sinister. Log that with someone perhaps? Police? Has he been stalking you so far?

Don't feel guilty about having friends over.

thats Not sure what I could log or to who...my stbxh needs a flat and has found one close to our DC doesn't sound like a bad thing when said like that. And what he said about keeping an eye on me was done over the phone, so no proof other than my word, and anyway it could always be turned into 'it was meant as a joke' or some might think it nice my stbxh looking out for me making me the bad guy again.

He hasn't stalked me, no, but each time we interact I get grilled on whether I'm seeing someone, am I sleeping with anyone, who have I had around our DC etc.

Have you been in contact with Women's aid?

I think that sounds threatening! But ??? If nothing else needs to be nipped in the bud.

I can't stop him moving in there or looking out of his window or walking past my house to get to the bus stop/newsagents etc. Don't think there's anything women's aid could do either.

For the most part what bothers me is him turning up at my door every day because he was passing/thought DC would like it/wondered if I was in. And because he still sees DC and I as a package deal, it won't just be to see them, it'll be to make sure no one's 'moving in on his family'.

Thought women's aid could advise you about setting up contact for kids- and advise you when it crosses the line towards harassment. He cannot think he can just turn up!

He refuses to set up contact. Refuses to talk only on his terms. If he comes to the door, our DC will see him and then I won't feel able to turn him away and upset them. What kind of mum would I look like in their eyes if daddy turns up to see them and I tell him to leave?! He's played this very well. He always told me if I shunned the idea of reconcilliation he'd go for 50/50 custody. This from a man who's been a dad for 3.5 years and never had our three babies on his own. I'm all over the place today, sorry if my posts reflect that.

You're going to have to get tough here. You're going to have to set very firm boundaries, definite contact times, and you're going to have to stick to it. Do not let him in, do not allow contact other than contact times, and ring the police Every. Single. Time. he harasses you.

I was speaking to a medical professional today about some of the abusive behaviour that occurred when stbxh was coming for contact and explaining why I didn't feel safe or comfortable with him coming into my house anymore, and she is going to go back to social services and make a further report. I know it needs to be done, but I'm worried that it will kick things off again. The DCs' safety is the most important, but I know stbxh will go ballistic.

Don't let him see them in your house. He can have visitation in his house. He can bathe them and put them to bed at his place. He can cook meals there.

If you let him in to put them to bed at your house, or help with bath time, or turn up hungry at supper time, it is all entirely too cosy for him.

curt I don't know all the history but he sounds like he's trying to provoke you. And I don't want to be alarmist but post-leaving is a critical time. Like Alice says... Be firm with boundaries and if he doesn't respect your rules please go to police.

I'm in no position to give advice as I'm still stuck (and v v pissed off tonight. In need of a backbone!) but one of the things that scares me is how abusive men become devious and try to worm their way back in. Don't give him the opportunity. And do investigate reporting him for stalking if he says he's 'keeping an eye on you' , the police will be interested in this I am sure!

hansie he won't see them if I don't let him visit here. Plus DD1 just won't let me out of her sight and the twins pick up on that and get upset, so despite not being ideal, it's the best thing for my DC right now and they're what's important here.

He's text this evening to say the flat is his if he wants it but he now also has the option of staying on rent free at his mates for another 3 months, and if he does he can't take them there because he refuses to give me the address.

alice I totally hear what you're saying but in theory and in practise are two entirely different things. He's pissing about and I'm going back to ignoring him if it's anything other than to do with DC. I now think he won't take the flat close by. Why would he pay out for his own place when he can live for free at his mates? And it means he still gets to come here to see our DC.

Alice - in answer to your question - I hope that he will change!

I have invested 23 years. I have moved away from my family and friends. Yes my children are young adults-that doesn't make it easier. Just different.

If it were that easy believe me I would have left. Reality is very different. It isn't easy. You say I could have a nice happy single life. How do you know that? I would be putting myself in a situation where finances would be an issue. I have a part time job which doesn't pay enough to live on. I would have to sell the house. And live where?

It isn't day after day of misery. It's a good day or a good few days, followed by a shit day. Or a fab weekend and you think great, this is how life should be and then he comes home in a bad mood and picks a fight.

I know that you didn't mean it in a mean or funny way, but it was hard to read.

Funny please don't be offended. I didn't say it would be easy. I'm just trying to understand where you're at, that's all.

If I was giving someone else advice on my situation-I would probably say the same as you.
I don't expect anyone to understand because in truth I don't understand myself.

curt perhaps he wasn't going to take the flat anyway and just wanted your reaction? I am really worried about the sinister tone in his attitude. And the fact that it made you worried gave him the satisfaction of knowing he can control you in that way, even if you didn't show it to him. Using the kids as a way to get at you is not an option- he needs to see this. A solicitor could perhaps help?

fish I'm at a similar life stage, kids adults (just) and I used he excuse Of not wanting to disrupt their education, home lives etc, now I wonder if I'm throwing away the chance for something better by settling for what I'm familiar with. The counsellor I'm seeing says when I talk about the situation it sounds like I am in a prison. But of course I think it's a prison consisting of a nice house, enough money, a shared history of kids etc. if I leave my future will be dubious- I'd not be able to afford a house where we are now and I want to stay in London, I'd have to get a leasehold flat and I'm not sure if I'd regret giving up security.

I keep thinking of a parable-type story I remember hearing in church when I was very young: about someone who could walk down a row of corn (ok I'm from the USA!) and choose only one piece but they could never walk down again. I think in the story they end up with no piece at all because they are not totally happy with any of them. I feel like I chose the first crappy, substandard piece I came across just to have something... And am having to finish walking down the row being jealous of all the nice pieces I could have chosen!

thatsnot hey, as a fellow detassler in my teens, I understood that analogy.

That's not - thankyou.

I have a few friends who's husbands have left them. They were forced into a situation of no money, struggled to pay bills, lonely, etc. I would be voluntarily putting myself in that situation.

It's weighing up everything.
I too live in London and everything is sooooo expensive.
Hair colour and cut £150 haha priorities

I understand the worry of - am I just making a huge mistake? I have that too. And the fws know this and play on it because however much they think they despise us, we're their comfort zone- literally proving comfort in the face of their difficult, demanding and abusive personalities. It's in their interests to discourage courage and independence. Instinctively they know their comfort relies on fear and insecurity in their partners. and the fw type is instinctively and therefore powerfully manipulative at a very fundamental level - so it's no wonder we struggle to free ourselves of the fw version of Stockholm syndrome!

Hi everybody I haven't posted in a very long time. DD (9) has had an up and down relationship with her Dad since we split up a year ago. It's currently thoroughly 'down'. Nothing big has happened but she refuses to see or speak to him. It sounds like it's just everything added up into her being fed up of the whole thing. She's fundamentally scared of him. Can't broach most subjects as she'll be told she's 'going on' and she's scared he'll shout. He promises not to drink when he has her, but then takes her out, lies about it, and expects her to do the same. He tells her he still loves me, and tries to form some kind of weird traumatic bond with her by saying he misses her every second, can't cope without her, doesn't eat or go out etc. She says she misses him, and is worried about him, but absolutely does not want to see him. He's just upset her too many times now.

I don't want to put this decision on her shoulders, and I've explained that I'm backing her on this, it's not all down to her. i've tried explaining to FW what he's doing wrong, but of course he just lies, or disagrees with everything.

I'm worried especially about how this looks if he chooses to go down the legal route. I'm sure I'm supposed to make really clear what he should be doing, but I don't feel like I'm doing that, as he just says it's all lies, or pathetic excuses. I'm also aware that it's entirely pointless - on any other subject I wouldn't even bother communicating with him on it.

So what do I do?!

DD is in bits, feeling guilty and worried and like a terrible person. i reassure her that she's done nothing wrong, that her Dad is a grown up, and will look after himself.

Will try and read some of the 300 posts I've missed!

noregrets from your first paragraph it sounds like he's being EA to her- could this be the case? In that case your first responsibility is to protect her... Doesn't answer your question re what to do but sadly, as with many things, it is down to him to decide to change and be a decent dad. Pandering to him will just reinforce bad behaviour on his part.

Can you get someone else, who he will listen to, to tell him he needs to get himself together? Sounds sad, especially if he's drinking and getting morose about you and lost relationship. Look after yourself, he's not your problem, and your DD needs you to be ok so you can get on with your lives.

Just dropped in to catch up.
Fish I think the enormity of the change in circumstances you would face if you left seems very daunting from inside the safety of the golden prison. I felt the same before I left XH. But I was propelled out by a jet of misery and found myself in a tiny rented house near to the family home. I adjusted my lifestyle to my new circumstances and found I was still happier out than in. Nothing would have made me go back! And I am proud to support myself and make ends meet.
Could you maybe think about how you would earn enough to live on if you left? And consult a solicitor about what you could expect in a divorce settlement? Knowledge is power.

thats yes absolutely he's being EA to her. I've had to totally reset my way of thinking since she broke down in school a few months back, resulting in them referring to SS. All fine, as they're content with the actions I was taking. But in retrospect I accepted too much of what he was saying at face value when he is a liar. I'm over it now - I see it through SS eyes and will continue to concentrate on what's best for DD.

But - it also matters how it looks if he tries to take this further. How to I prove that i've taken steps to ensure he's clear on what the matter is, when he just lies, denies, pretends he has no idea what I'm talking about, and that I'm bonkers. I've given up talking about it to him at the moment, but he could easily take me to court, and probably make me look awful.

Classic tactics noregrets to deny and pretend he doesn't know what you're talking about. Why is it your fault, and how could he take it to court? What for, denying access when it's clearly not in her best interests?

It might be a good idea to preempt any action on his part if you think he's going to take it to court by speaking to SS/ a solicitor. Could women's aid help?

KouignAmann thanks for the inspiration, I would so love to be in a little house right now just for me and the occasional DS/dd. I'm scared of how I how I'd manage on my salary and insecure work but I'm sure I could manage, we had no money most of the time the kids were small and I made it work. But also memories of that time and lack of money also make me feel that I'm actually lucky and shouldn't throw away a good thing... Not bad enough to go but not good in any way whatsoever.

thats thank you for posting, especially when I can see you're not in a good place either. It's me minimising things as usual - I'm clearly making a big deal out of nothing by not taking her to see him, therefore I'm at risk from court. I can see it now I've written it down! He's totally out of order, and I'm doing nothing wrong. Might chat through with SS to get their validation.

Wow I've finally read all 13 pages. Such a lot going on! It also reminds me of when I first started posting on places like this, no idea what EA was, just concerned about treading on eggshells, scared when the screaming in my face and smashing things was going on. I read Lundy and realised he was not some unique special individual, he was cut from a mould.

It's been over a year now, and it's been hard work. He has not given up, but I'm no longer waiting for him to. I (try!) to make him as irrelevant as possible, and concentrate on protecting myself and DD. I wish I could pass on some gem of advice that would help everybody, but I really don't know. I've done a course of counselling, but more importantly I've just accepted that he'll never change and that I have to crack on. I was so impatient to feel better I was getting really depressed. But time has honestly helped.

I'm 35 with 9yo DD. Was with FW for 15 years since I was a teenager - hes 18 years older than me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

I hope everybody finds the strength they need to defend themselves.