Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks alice, I am. A lot of it has come from sharing things on here, advice from people like you who are experiencing the same kinds of fuckwittery, and just the feeling that I'm back in control of my life rather than it being controlled by stbxh

Thanks again to both of you. I think you both sound very in control and strong, the way I hope I can be. I can see how a thread like this would
help, so many similar stories to enable you to see it's no you and theres nothing you can do to stop another persons behaviour.

Sadly im so ground down by ex that im still being soft. I contacted him today to sort contact and maintenance and all I got was abuse. I have now asked cms to take direct payments and will to hear from his lawyer.
Must stick to my word, will keep on these threads to help.

Sorry that im asking for support without giving at the minute im just to
messed up to try to give advice and am only learning when it comes to EA.

No need to apologise phoebe, that's what this thread is for..support. There have been times when all I've done is come on here and need a bit of tlc without giving any back.
I'm not strong, believe me, but I'm stronger than I was. I've only been separated from stbxh for three months and he's been a complete arse for most of it. I have soft days, I have days when his desire for NC tears me up, I have days when I wonder if counselling would have helped, I still have whole weeks where I miss him (the nice him).

pheobe definitely do not apologise!! I feel strong today, tomorrow I might not. I been on here so many times going around in circles over the nonsense pulled by STBXH. But a lot of it is time - it has taken me quite some time to reach a point where I'm not trying to be "nice" and the "people pleaser" and just doing what is best for my DCs and myself. I've been separated almost a year now. What a huge difference a year makes!!

And I struggled for months over the contact issue - he was coming to see the DCs twice a week at mine, and just taking over and being aggressive and abusive and I literally felt at times like he'd never left and we were still trapped in it. Now that I've stopped doing that, I feel so much better (and so do the DCs).

Hi Pheobe, Alice and curt

Curtwild my h also blames his father and grandfather for the jealous family trait, and his parents marriage split for his need for attention.
I personally think its bollocks. We are in our mid 40s at what age do u take responsibility for your own actions?
I don't behave like that.
We are sat on the sofa and he is watching tv. But because he doesn't have my attention every two minutes he is commenting 'oh wow, did you see that, oh god blah blah' . It's all so bloody childish.

I can understand how difficult it is when you have young children. But to be honest it doesn't get easier. My boys are 24 and 19 and don't need looking after but it also makes life lonely when you gave a controlling, un supporting h.
I am so proud of you Alice and Curt for having the strength to get out. I wish I could find the courage.

And Curt all the counselling is doing for me is to realise I am stronger than I was a year ago.
He hasn't changed at all but I am.

Funny I go to counselling by myself, and it has helped me immensely. It's helped me to vent, get my head around things, think about ways to focus on myself and the DCs and what is important rather than worrying about what STBXH will do next.

Oh funny I do hope you find the courage eventually. It must be so hard as you've obviously been with your h a long time(better the devil you know) The one thing to make it easier for you as that you could cut your h off. I was relieved when I split with ex couple of month ago as I stupidly thought that meant all the abuse would stop.

I think it helps reading threads on here as you can see what a proper relationship is like and it gives you hope.

Curt and Alice the fact your even strong some of the time is great if that's enough to help you carry on the bad days.I think in some ways it's good, the more you go through the stronger you get.

Wow lots to read here- curt you were saying (and others) about him blaming his father, we all know THAT IS NO EXCUSE! Lundy speaks at length about this and it really resonates with me. I blame FIL for being an abusive d*ck to his family but it's no reason to copy- in fact it's a reason to self-reflection and determination to do different. I see so much of the same. And I will NOT be MIL... Downtrodden, no opinions, gets shouted at all the time.

funny it's hard to make a stand, isn't it. My kids are 18 and 20. I spent all these years smoothing over and keeping the peace, now I just want out but I feel such pity for him, he is a selfish baby.

I never thought I was in an abusive situation when the kids were small, just thought I wasn't good enough and h was quick to point out all my shortcomings.

Glad (well not glad!) that you lovely younger ladies can get out with more understanding of the dynamics of abuse! For me it's now habit.

I feel sad reading your post thatsnot,just as funny's. As although im glad im cutting ties now, it's never too late.

If it wasn't for mumsnet I wouldn't have realised that ex is Ea, I'd never even heard of stonewalling etc. I like you thought it was me, im still a bit unsure. I hope in the future I can meet someone 'normal' and have a nice life but what I keep trying to tell myself is that anything is better than the abuse. You deserve more and could be happier on your own given time.

Maybe now you've realised it'll give you the courage as you will see the games etc and knowing it's not going to end. When your unsure you think when you've changed x y or z then it'l all be fine when it won't as he has to change. I feel so worn down and that's only a small number of years, I see why it would be so difficult for you.

Pheobe - yes 23 years and still being disappointed by him. I can't imagine him not being part of my life. That's the sad thing.
I keep expecting or hoping that he will change. The weekend away we have just had I caught a glimpse of how it could be. Hopes are raised and then within a couple of days they are shattered.

I find it all exhausting. The counsellor will ask me why I haven't voiced to him that I am not happy about him doing x y z. But I have said it so many times he doesn't listen.
He constantly rolls his eyes at me. Or big sighs.
Also I have been told not to keep asking him what's wrong? I find that very hard. To me it's a natural question if someone is upset. But the counsellor says I can't fix it, it's an attention thing he does apparently.

Thatsnotmyname - do u think u will leave. I worry that I won't be able to support myself, where will I live, etc

I totally understand funny. I miss my ex when he's behaving nicely, in my case that happened less and less. Hope it helps you talking her to get out your frustrations and so you don't feel like your going mad.

It's good you have a counsellor so you can get coping strategies.

phoebe it gets worse over time. Always. I've been reading this tread for a couple of years now so am an expert

funny I'm trying to work out how to leave. Just started counselling, second session is Monday and I'm really looking forward to it... I spend all my time (even at work! But still enjoying my job and performing rather well by all accounts) over thinking the situation, the future, the past and how I might have been part of the cause because of my personality.

You'd not believe the bile he is spewing right now about the RH trial. Personally I think it's all very very sad. But h is saying... '...those B&&ches, it's natural for a 53 yo man to be attracted to young woman, what's the problem? They just want money...'

thatsnot Not sure of everyone else's age, but I'm over 45, although I suppose that may not be obvious as I do have young children still. So definitely not of the "younger" set. Getting out is still a good option no matter what your age. Life is too short to spend it being trapped in a miserable relationship.

I think we ALL miss our ex's "good behaviour", but that good behaviour doesn't make up for or cancel out the bad behaviour. And in my situation, the bad behaviour had progressed to daily, so what was the point of staying? I was truly concerned about the risk to the DCs and had no choice.

... and after a torrent of the most misogynistic, anti-'feminist' abuse (all justified with 'that's what happens in nature, males just want to breed') he shows me some really good work he's done for our neighbours here and it makes him look like such a nice helpful guy. We own some land in a flood prone area and he's worked out how we can all protect things, liaising with all the local agencies etc etc. He looks like such a decent helpful guy to others and gets a buzz from that. Pity!? I am so confused!

alice you are so right. I am battling with excuses now as to why I trap myself, got every reason to leave!

Have to agree..I'm 42 with very small children and realised that my life was ticking away unhappily. I know stbxh can be lovely, but he's inconsistent and unpredictable. A few occasions of nastiness is almost acceptable, but when you're literally waking up each and every day knowing he'll kick off about something, there's very little left to work with. I was constantly exhausted physically, mentally and emotionally. He thought nothing of waking me up at stupid o clock to have a go, wake DD1 and the twins by shouting and then he'd disappear back downstairs saying 'looks like you won't be getting any sleep tonight..' Truly repulsive behaviour..and he's angling towards a reconciliation..suggesting counselling. No. Never. Ever.

curt just that is HORRIBLE.

I've taken the step of booking a holiday for myself and the DCs. Very much looking forward to it. A week at the seaside this summer for an excellent price.

alice that sounds lovely! And I bet you were able to book that without asking- and- without the fear of being told that it was the wrong place, time, thing to do. Now you can look forward to it, with the DC, and not worry about when he's going to choose to kick off about something. Really pleased for you !

thatsnot It's good your seeing a counsellor as it'll help you get stronger and keep your sanity knowing it's not you causing it.
While i'm sure your not perfect as I'm not it doesn't mean anyone has the right to react to you in an abusive manner and your dh would still behave the way he does regardless of your behaviour.
I also am open mouthed at you dh views. My ex has made racist and homophobic comments many times that I just ignored when I realy should have realised what kind of person that makes him.

curt your ex sounds awful. I had a friend who's partner would do same thing and not let her sleep, obviously a severe form of EA and would really mess with your head. That would be enough alone not to try again as anyone who could do that is seriously messed up.

Alice That's great you have a holiday booked, hope you have a nice relaxed time. I think organising a holiday on your own is symbolic.
It shows your moving on and accepting that this is you family set up now, it might be the best holiday you've ever had.

I'll add that I'm 34, ds is 6. I've just started a new job so that helps with the fresh start, hoping i'll make some new friends and maybe get myself a social life again

phoebe my ex made loads of racist and homophobic comments. Yes, looking back I do think I should have clued in more as it's a definite indicator of their values, isn't it?

It's the only holiday the DCs have ever had, so we're looking forward to it. DC2 was concerned when I told him we were going to the beach, as for some odd reason he thought we were going to have to LIVE on the beach the whole time - sleeping there and everything. So I brought up pictures of the place online and showed him the photos of the accommodations and everything - much happier DC now. They've been "suggesting" things to bring along - practically everything but the kitchen sink!!

It does feel like a big step forward to do this holiday with myself and DCs. I was nervous at first, but the more I think about it, the more confident and happy about it I feel.

Alice I do feel an idiot for having a child with someone who ha sviews I don't just disagree with but find disgusting. I think the reason it didn't put me off is because lot's of my friends and workmates in the past have the same appalling outdated views and I was used to just ignoring that side of them. Though I should make it clear that I always put my own views across.

I'ts just such a worry now because i'm fretting about my son being exposed to ex views and the way he is emotionally cold. my son is sensitive like myself and ex doesn't know how to handle that.
Something that stuck with me was when I once asked ex for foot massage and he said yes but that he would do it later as he didn't want our son to see him do it. My response was rather Wtf? and I still can't get my head round that.

That is so nice to hear about your holiday,sounds like fun.
I bet it'll be nice and relaxed and a nice break away. I think it's another thing that'll make you stronger. Make sure you take lot's of photo's to remind you. I would like to do the same, we never went on holiday as a family, it would have ended in arguments as a day out was hard enough.

Alice - well done on booking your holiday that is just fantastic.

I am 47 one DS at home 19 and the other left home.

Counselling tonight. Been going nearly a year now. She thinks that we are making real progress !! Hmmmmm
I see it as two steps forward and three back.
The problem is I don't think I have done much wrong, I think he is 90% to blame for rocking the boat! not being happy with his lot. He says he is bored. He doesn't want to come in from work and sit in. He wants to be out doing things. Which usually is watching footy, playing golf, pub, all things I have no interest in.

Funny I'm curious. Why are you still going to the joint counselling sessions? You clearly don't think they are doing any good, and I have to agree with you on that. He's obviously not getting anything out of it, other than occasional justification about his behaviour and stringing you along into thinking that he'll change at some point.

You do realise that if he hasn't made any changes after a year of counselling, he most likely isn't ever going to make any changes. This is his way of keeping you roped into the relationship.

Why do you stay? I am asking as a simple question - not being funny about it. Your children are adults, you could have a lovely single life without any of the contact visit nightmares with him because they are adults, and you could literally go your own way and never have to deal with him again (other than a rare occasion like a family wedding or something when your children get married). Why stay and let him drag you down and make you miserable?

Stbxh, after visiting DC at the weekend and discovering I'm not interested in counselling or reconciliation, has fallen on his feet and found a flat. It's on the other side of the street from my home, but further down (a small set of new build two storey flats..very nice) The last one's been empty a while so I suppose they snapped him up when he showed an interest.
He phoned to say night to DC last night, informing me first of his imminent move and finishing by saying 'it's perfect, I'll be able to see DC every day and keep an eye on you'

Is he just going to turn up every day to see DC? Can I
turn him away if he does? I'm going to be looking over my shoulder every time I step out of my own front door, wondering if he's 'keeping an eye on me'. I now have visions of him watching who's coming in and out of my home. I won't dare bring friends back, not that I often do anyway but I have a couple of very platonic male friends I've known for years who pop in for a coffee sometimes and I know he'll accuse me of all sorts. I know it shouldn't matter but it does.

Aaaargghhh. And breath.