Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

funny how did he react when the counsellor told him that? Does he take responsibility for his behaviour, or just do as he pleases no matter how it affects you?

Possibly he thinks that you had a good time on your break, so he can tick that box and go back to doing what he wants. It does sound selfish especially if he is aware of how you feel.

Yes, I agree with thatsnot. It's possible he thinks that by going on that short break, that's he fulfilled his requirements for "couple time" and has now shelved the idea again. I wonder if you pushed the idea of more routine time as a couple if his first response wouldn't be "I went on the break with you, what more do you want?" That's just a guess, obviously.

It does seem like he is determined to do things only for him and is not interested in time together as a couple.

Hi thanks for your replies.
Yes he has always done his own thing but not to this degree.
He was shocked when the counsellor said he was pa and abusive. And says all the things in the counselling he thinks we want to hear. But doesn't put into practice anything. He picks tiny bits out of the session and twists them.
The break away was very honeymoony and lovely. Actually it was all about sex.
Yes Alice that is exactly what he would say.
Less than a week back and I feel shit

Hi funny, have to agree with everyone else. He's 'done his bit' with regard to couple time and thinks that should suffice. My stbxh used to roll this one out when he had a full week of stuff just for him with no space for time with me and DC - "I stayed on last saturday or have you forgotten about watching together? Nothing I do is ever enough is it..next time I'll just go out.." blah blah blah and all that. Basically we'd have a decentish weekend that I had to feel grateful for him spending time with me as he always made it known there were better things he could be doing.

Your H sounds very self absorbed, I really feel for you.

Stbxh is making noises about us not having done enough to save the marriage. He wants a deep and meaningful conversation over wine. And possibly counselling. This from the man who tells me to fuck off and good riddance then kicks off when I take him at his word. I did everything I could to save this marriage, he did bugger all but make empty promises. Pretty words that never became actions.

CurtWild I suspect it's because it's occurring to him that you actually seriously do not want to be with him. Keep up the NC, perhaps the message will finally sink in.

alice I think that's it. I've had some very length texts about how he feels his dad is at fault for how he's behaving towards me. Obviously our parents are strong models for how we deal with things, I'm a lot like my mum but I wouldn't blame her for me being a certain way, I pick and choose the traits they exhibited when I was growing up, if stbxh's dad was a fw then it's certainly not a trait I'd choose to have!

He's panicking because reality has hit him. He told me he had a flat, he's now admitted his mate let him flat sit for free for 3 months (so he's been loaded for 3 months with no outlay while I've struggled to sort my finances and he hasn't contributed a penny to DC). He now needs to find somewhere to live in the next two weeks and, even knowing this would happen, hasn't saved for a bond or even viewed anywhere.

Best guess is he figured he didn't need to look for a flat. That after 3 months apart I'd be begging him back and he'd graciously agree to move in. Oh. Dear. Me. If that's true he's very, very mistaken.

CurtWild that is EXACTLY it - he didn't bother looking for another flat because he figured he'd smooth it over with you, and now that the deadline is approaching, he's pulling out all stops to get you onside and wine and dine you to sweeten the deal. Be careful, because I think that once he realises that's not going to work, as the deadline gets closer, he may just turn nasty.

I've just found this thread and hoping reading others stories with
help me come to terms with my situation.
I have only recently realised my ex of 3 months is EA and am still
trying to come to terms with it. I have been trying to work things
out with him and get along for the sake of our child but he is making
it so difficult. I know I need to stop trying now but I'm wondering
how you deal with the guilt? it doesn't matter that he is causing the
problems, I still have to see my child suffer if I don't let my ex have
everything his way. Can anyone share how you deal with it? please.

Apologies for the weird way I've posted, still getting used to posting after lurking for years.

pheobebinks welcome. Can you give specific examples (that won't out you in RL of course!)? What type of things is he doing?

It just makes it easier for us to offer relevant information, that's all.

alice glad to have my thoughts seconded. I wondered for a while that maybe I'd read him wrong, but I know him, far better than he'd like to imagine. He's doing exactly the same thing he did when we separated late 2012, he moved out that time and went to stay in London. As soon as his welcome run out, he poured on the charm and idiot here took him back.

Back then, DD1 was barely toddling, the twins were newborn, I was exhausted with hormones flying everywhere, and the house was his so he had a legal right to move back in. No I'm far stronger, the house is mine and after the year of hell he put me through there's no chance of me wanting him back. I've mentioned his turnaround to a few friends and it's unanimous that on no grounds should I even consider taking him back. Everyone can rest assured that I don't intend to!!

In regard to him turning nasty once he figures out I'm not interested, that's a very real possibility.

Thanks for responding alice. It's hard to put it all down. Ex didn't live with me. He lives in a flat he says is unsuitable for our ds to go to (I think it would be fine if clean and tidy) so he has to come here.

I work shifts so has meant ex staying over or being here when I am.
Ex treats my flat like his home yet says he feels uncomfortable here.
He is constantly bringing up money, he holds it over me. I have now
contacted cms to to get in place an arrangement so that ex can stop making out that he is being generous and being kind to me by giving me money for ds. I keep trying to speak to ex and arrange times or days
for him to look after ds but he gets angry and wont discuss anything.

It is the usual pattern where he will agree that he has problems,agree to change then decide it's all my fault and that he can't speak to me.
He will then calm down after couple of days and so the cycle continues.
This is wearing me down and I can't do it anymore.

phoebe okay, I see that you work shifts, and I know from experience that childcare when you are working shiftwork is next to impossible, but if he's there to do childcare for you, you really need to sort that. Talk to your work or find someone else you trust to have your DS when you're working or get someone else you trust to come over. But separate HIM from the childcare. If you look back on here, this seems to be the huge difference for most. While you're reliant on him for childcare, he knows he can throw his weight around and cause you all sorts of problems, have access to your residence, and generally make your life miserable.

I have finally sorted outside childcare and finally (at long last - believe me it took FOREVER) reached a point where I can say "No, your contact will not be in my residence - we can meet in a public place or not at all." STBXH doesn't like it, and is stropping all over the place about it, but too bad. My residence needs to be a safe haven for both myself and the DCs - I could no longer cope with him invading it regularly for contact and making it feel like a trap I couldn't escape from. Huge improvement once that was done!

We tend to tie ourselves in knots going overboard to be "fair" which hands the abuser the chance to walk all over us with barely a squeak in protest from us. I've come to the conclusion lately that the separation needs to be more complete and more business like - making solid arrangements for contact and child maintenance and then holding them to it, and documenting everything (just in case). The less control they have over our daily lives, the better (and less stressful IMO) it will be.

Oh, and as far as his flat being unsuitable, simply tell him fine, then you will have contact in a public place with DS, stipulate what days and what times, and then stick to it. It is NOT your fault that he deems his place unsuitable. If it is, then he'll have to make do with contact in a public place - until he finds a place that IS suitable. And that is life, he'll have to learn to deal with it.

Thanks again alice. I have family looking after my son as of this week because of ex angry outburst. I don't need to rely on him for childcare it's just that it made it easier for ex to see ds. Ex contacted me to ask if I wanted him to look after ds whilst I was at work. I've said no as he wants that so in his mind he is doing me a favour, and in his mind think he's being kind to me. I stated that I didn't want him in my home and to arrange other times to see his child . . .he hasn't.

He has also said that he will be looking for a better flat and when he does he will be paying less maintenance, he doesn't seem to understand that isn't how it works. He has given me less than a 3rd of what he should this month as he has more expenses. I am struggling to deal with his behaviour. I will keep reading these threads for tips.

It sounds like you're going to have to go the route of telling your ex "you need to make arrangements to have contact outside of my home, if you don't, then you won't be seeing him. End of." It may mean he doesn't see your DS for awhile until he gets the message. But he'll figure it out eventually.

That's what I'm struggling with alice as I know that if I don't have contact the way he wants then he wont see my son, though he'll use a different excuse. I feel so bad for my son that I end up doing things on ex term. It's so hard to see my son suffer. I know I have to but getting my head round that is another thing. Thanks for your help.

phoebe same here re stbxh seeing our DC. He still views us as a package deal and a relationship with them seems dependent on a relationship with me. It's hard sticking to your guns but alice's advice is spot on. Good luck.

Thanks curtwild. Your situation seems far harder than mine and more dc involved. You have my respect dealing with that, I think you've had more time working out your ex and dealing with him but as I read upthread it's hard when you know theres gonna be a fallout and theres nothing you can do about it. best of luck to you with what you're going through.

pheobe my STBXH hasn't seen the DCs in months, because he argues over the contact details. I am not playing that game. In the meantime at least I don't have to deal with him face to face. Always an up side. Seriously, you cannot feel badly if he doesn't see your DS - it's HIS (meaning your ex) choice whether or not to be cooperative. You're providing the opportunity - if he doesn't take it, that's his problem. Your son will adapt. And it will be better for you (and your son) in the long run. If you don't take a stand at some point, he will still be messing with your head years from now just because he can.

I know it's difficult, I'm doing the same thing right now. And yes, I feel sad that the DCs can't have a decent relationship with their father, but at the same time, I have to acknowledge that it comes from HIS choices in the matter. So he's only really truly punishing himself this way, not us.

That's it. If you offer him the contact and he refuses it then that's his look out. alice and I discussed this further back in the thread that it comes down to this: if he wanted to see the DC he'd do it, regardless of how those arrangements are made
That's become my bottom line. Of course I'm sad that my DC don't have a proper relationship with their dad, but there's only one person stopping it from happening and that's him. And that's not my fault, it's his.

Happy to report my lovely babies are happy and settled

That's it. If you offer him the contact and he refuses it then that's his look out. alice and I discussed this further back in the thread that it comes down to this: if he wanted to see the DC he'd do it, regardless of how those arrangements are made
That's become my bottom line. Of course I'm sad that my DC don't have a proper relationship with their dad, but there's only one person stopping it from happening and that's him. And that's not my fault, it's his.

Happy to report my lovely babies are happy and settled

CurtWild You are sounding much more relaxed and positive today - so glad your babies are settled and happy, and that you seem to be as well!

Thanks alice, I am. A lot of it has come from sharing things on here, advice from people like you who are experiencing the same kinds of fuckwittery, and just the feeling that I'm back in control of my life rather than it being controlled by stbxh