Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

maybe you could say that to him, that there is no other reason to communicate other than over contact for the DC? Any other texts than seeking to make contact arrangements, logistical issues or problems during contact, will be considered harrassment, that you will forward all future ones to the police, and result in an harrassment order?

I don't see it as high ground, its stepping away from him trying force you to engage with him.

He seems to think that after separating on the grounds of abuse, you are there to help him deal with the breakup and take the anger he believes you should take, and also he is fighting you all the way to ensure that he doesn't get any blame for this.

I'm making a big assumption that everyone else is sstronger than I am here

I don't feel very strong right now, and I know he knows that and is using it to his advantage. If I'm not very careful I'll find I've apologised for something or other and he'll have found the chink in my armour.
Alice he, as usual, sees every reaction of mine as an overreaction or personal attack. I've tried being very to the point with him, contact me about DC or not at all, and that is me being obstructive apparently.
I'm slowly beginning to suspect that, unless he has a relationshop with me, he's not interested in a relationship with our DC. I think that's what all the control has been about. I don't think he even understands why I don't want to be with him, or even to comminucate with him. I'm beginning to think as far as he's concerned, from things he's said, that it's all or nothing.

Fi I don't think it's a matter of stronger. I think it's sometimes easier to see something when you're not in the middle of it. Look how quickly you pegged MY STBXH's behaviour and gave me good advice. And I waffled a lot. You were clear, I was stressed. Because I was in the middle of it, you were seeing it from a much clearer angle. I'm not sure if I am saying it properly.

CurtWild I don't feel very strong either, but I feel that if I don't start taking control of my own life, then I will never make a solid break. I am trying to maintain boundaries to keep us safe, and I'm hoping that as I get more comfortable asserting them that I will feel more confident and strong as well.

It seems to me his relationship with our DC is dependent and conditional on him having a relationship with me. Talk of 'coming home' last night has had me re-reading his texts and there is a definite 'all or nothing' type wording, and he seems to believe I need to give him a chance to prove I can trust him. There's also things in there like 'until I'm sure we're 100% over', him having 'chosen' me and lots of 'you are my wife'.

He still sees DC and I as a package deal.

yes, i do agree Alice it is a lot easier when outside of the emotions and insecurities of it.

You have moved on loads Alice

I have today made quite a leap forward on the clarity front, managing finally to verbalise my definitions of whats appropriate for contact. All I've been previously is a jumbled mess, really awfully so. I think I managed to pin a lot of it, and you know what it ends up looking like.... everything you need to be just to be a regular parent, all the things that a regular parent assume to be the case, but with FWs it all has to be painstakingly pointed out. The normal boundaries of childcare having to be laid out says it all doesn't it?

The trouble is, as far as they are concerned I am just stuck in the past and refusing to move on and let it all go. How can it be let go? the past means just yesterday, and the behaviour of the past predicts it will also be tomorrow... that he's a FW.

I am sorry that you are still listening to him Curt ... its very hard to do that complete detaching from rather than just hearing his words to really listening to them and expecting yourself to respond or change things as a result. I think part of the process is to spend a long time trying to work them out, which is why Lundy is so good.

I'm not really sure how much I've moved on Fi. I think having STBXH in a different location helps greatly though. I was really struggling with his behaviour when he was here twice a week, throwing his weight around and it felt like we'd never even separated as he was still here so much. I've not physically seen him in a couple months - which helps greatly IMO. I highly recommend sending them away somewhere - maybe in a box? air holes optional. (now we all know that's a joke, right?)

alice fairy I feel pathetic at the side of you two. I gather momentum and start getting back on my feet then it goes pear shaped.
How do I communicate a contact plan to someone who responds with 'I won't let you control the situation' ??
I say I won't discuss anything but our DC, he says then he won't discuss our DC.
I say only communicate via text so he calls and calls and when I ignore it says he wanted to say hello/goodnight to DC and I've prevented him from doing so.
He knows I want our DC to have a relationship with him so he also knows I won't go NC unless he does.
I'm running round in circles like a bloody headless chicken and I don't know what to do.

I honestly jusr don't know what to do.

Its so rough on you all, a horrible lot to realise and accept, but... he is telling you clearly that he will keep using the DC to blackmail you into staying in contact with him so he [thinks he] can make it your fault if he chooses not to see them.

There will be lots of this. there will be lots of him telling everyone how frankly the bitchiest witch from hell you are and probably completely crackers too, to anyone that he can convince.

Well no you have prevented him have you. YOu are trying to draw the lines in the sand.

without him in your head, decide whats best for them (that you can manage too, without any bending over backwards mind! - its what suits you all and fits in well for you all to be happy with) - offer it. Include whether you are happy for him to call them for a few mins to say goodnight (without winding them up or using it as a way of ffinding out who you have there at night).

this is such a painful part of an altogether painful process.. but deciding what you want and sticking to it then limiting the lines of recourse for him is the most pain free way (ime).

So, no its not pathetic of you, its part and parcelof the unravelling of it all.

So thinking of him will cause the circles, thinking of your DC will cause you to know whats needed for them, and how that can best fit ffor you?

CurtWild have you spoken to a solicitor about all this to find out what you can and can't do legally? I'm going to PM you a phone number for a legal centre that I've used to get free solicitor advice. You sometimes have to keep ringing until you get through, but they are there from Monday through Friday 8am until 8pm and they have been extremely helpful to me. And there's no cost involved.

I think for now CurtWild until you've sorted the legalities of it, you need to just detach. He is telling you he wants you AND the DCs as a package deal. You've already stated that's not going to happen. Now you need to detach and ignore until he realises you mean it. If that means the DCs go without contact while he is being uncooperative, then they go without contact. They'll be okay - how beneficial is the current contact when he is cancelling and being dreadful anyway? Better to just stop it altogether until he realises things have changed.

I've had to come to the realisation that STBXH isn't as interested in having a decent relationship with our DCs as he should be. It's upsetting to realise this, but there it is. It's not helpful for me to be the driving force behind the relationship. If he can't man up and deal with it, then I need to just ignore it and move on and do what's best for the DCs.

I think that you may need to consider this as well. Yes, in an ideal world, he'd make an effort to just be a decent parent. But he's not making that effort - he's expending vast amounts of energy trying to wear you down instead. Break contact and give yourself some breathing room. Report any harassment to the police. Do what is absolutely best for you and the DCs - without him - and hold those boundaries firm.

Believe me, this is something I struggle with regularly. But I'm trying really hard to keep firm on it all, as I believe in the long run it's what is best for the DCs and myself.

Thanks fairy It's like I unravel it all in my head and sort it all out how it 'should' be, how it works for me and what's best for DC. And then he tangles the whole bloody thing up again because he won't give me straightforward answers. He's determined to make this as hard on everyone as possible and for what? To keep me in line. Certainly not for the benefit of our DC.
Thanks alice, I haven't spoken to a solicitor, no, so that might have to be the next move. I appreciate you both taking the time to give me some words of wisdom

CurtWild If it helps, I have 3 scenarios in my head. How I think it should be, How STBXH wants it to be, and How it IS. I have to accept that "How I think it should be" is not going to happen, as obviously STBXH is not willing to be a mature adult about all this. "How STBXH wants it to be" is not going to happen, as it's unrealistic and not beneficial for the children or myself. So that leaves "How it IS." And that is what I have to work with.

In that context, I find that I'm less irritable if I discard completely my mental ideas of "How I think it should be" as it's just frustrating to think "he SHOULD be doing this, but he isn't." So I take it as it comes. He ignores DC, I enjoy the peace and quiet. He kicks off, I ignore and enjoy the peace and quiet. He harasses or threatens me, I ring police. Less stress for me, and better for the DCs to have things a bit less "eeeeeeeee!" all the time.

alice brilliant. All of that makes sense.
I need breathing room.
I need to get back into the head space I was in when I first left. I was determined. I was focused. I didn't want him in my life any more than he needed to be for DC.
He's insinuated himself further in as time has gone by, and the epiphany that he does still see DC and I as a package is something I need to nip in the bud.
Whilst I want him to have a relationship with our DC, nothing he has done lately has been for their benefit, his behaviour has been more damaging than nurturing.

I won't have 'a dad at all costs' for them. If I'd wanted that, I would never have left. That is my bottom line.

Hi Vixens, haven't read back coz been AWOL for a while due to extreme stress, lots of work and feeling like a failure. Sending love and peace to all though xxx

But I'm starting to feel stronger. Feck it takes such a monumental effort to get my brain free of his claws. Today I said how sad about peaches geldof's little babies. Fw said v sad for ours too, they're being scarred by my stubbornness of wanting to 'destroy family' - how horribly shocking that he could use such a tragedy to flout his own agenda. And anyway it's not me being stubborn, it's me trying to make things better

heart goes to the little children of Peaches, torn apart so by her own mother'sdeath and now her two little ones left behind.

Sorry to hear of extreme stress breathe but very good to hear of strengthening. - horrible FW yes, as we know its them that are the destroyers and decimaters of families and lives. It is you trying tomake things better and thats good

Breathe Appalling comment by your FW, but you know better. It's the nature to twist everything into their own agenda. Detach - you know he's wrong. Do your best "eyebrow raise" and ignore. He's looking to upset you. I hope your stress level goes down soon. You're not a failure - put that thought right out of your head.

I need to indulge in a self-absorbed pity rant. I am somewhere I don't want to be, doing something I don't want to do. Supposed to be cleaning a boat but feigned a headache and came inside, will go back out in a bit. I am tempted to take an overdose of paracetamol but I won't , really won't, but am feeling so trapped. I am on an island so cannot go out for a walk. Am crying with frustration. It's supposed to be bank holiday and I work tomorrow ... I am annoyed with myself because I overate out of boredom this morning, was tempted to eat a plate of flapjacks but stopped myself so that's good- was planning on binging/purging which I haven't done for years. I can't go anywhere, I'm not sure whether I'm just feeling like a martyr because I'm dressed in grubby clothes feeling hard done by when I would like to be a) seeing friends wh invited us to an event 2) going for a walk 3) visiting my gym (home not here) to do yoga class 4) just about anything except what I am doing. I wouldn't even mind cleaning the boat but I've been watched over and told I was doing it wrong.

And when I mentioned that I had to wash clothes/sort food etc and get ready for work tomorrow I got a lecture about how little I earn... (Not really true anyway!)

At least boat is being cleaned because it's being sold, replacement boat (££) arriving next week so that will hopefully keep hm occupied.

I know it's all unacceptable and I started counselling last week. But I still feel like a moral failure in that that I should be more enthusiastic about cleaning the boat! I will say this now: I am SO not into boats. Wish I were but I'm not. The most fun I've had all weekend was doing a few eBay listings. So grateful for Internet. And a chance to rant- thanks for reading!

I hope you're feeling a bit better thats. Sometimes it helps to rant and get it out. Were you cleaning the boat because FW said you must? What would he have done if you refused?

That sounds grim, That's even if you LIKED boats, being forced and guilted into anything is horrible and ensures complete non enjoyment. Who are these fws to dictate how we should be spending the limited time we have on this planet grr!! Keep strong sweetie and remember- we're worth more than the crappy fw agenda pretends.

Thanks ladies. Getting rid of a FW is never simple but I wish I'd done it when I was younger (hindsight!) as keeping everything together 'for the sake of the kids' has made me an expert in glossing things over and pretending all's ok and now that the kids have left home I simply cannot stand up for myself without causing a seismic eruption. It was such a boring day but I did as expected, acted ok and now I'm back home at last with my wonderful cat. I didn't want a big row as he would have screwed it up for me. He's stayed over to finish doing the boat as I have to work tomorrow. I had a minor-major carb binge just before I left (stupid box of ancient stale Jaffa cakes, ick). I'm expecting great things from counselling, no session this week due to holiday- but I have this need for someone to tell me what to do, and they won't do that. Time is passing me by...

PS I still feel like an 'ungrateful b' as he calls me, because I should feel delighted that he provides me with a house and boat to clean.

These fws are charmers, aren't they . Counselling will help you feel stronger sweetie, good luck. Mine told me how lonely I'd be without him as I grew older. The thought of growing old with the bad tempered selfish prick had the opposite affect to the one intended!!

Hi ladies back again and feeling 'disappointed' by my h behaviour. I just feel so let down by him.
We have been going couples counselling for nearly a year now. I say the same things week on week. The last session she told him he is passive aggressive and abusive.
I have suffered anxiety and panic for the past 3 years. Started a job in September and the anxiety is controllable.
We decided to have a mini break. Away from the family and a chance to really talk. All was fab and I thought we had turned a corner.
Since getting back wed morning he has been out wed night with lads, all day Saturday at football. He came home at midnight absolutely pissed. He had a hangover all day Sunday. He started to feel better at 5pm and went to play golf until 8.30. Bank hol Monday he said he needed to work for a couple of hours. Text me at 3 to say he had finished and was popping to the pub for a drink. My day off wed he calls to say he is finishing work early. Home at 4 to get changed and play golf then have is regular wed night out with lads. He is 45. Been together 23 years.
He is just so bloody selfish.
Thoughts please

Hi funny so sorry to hear you are suffering . It does seem he is operating to a schedule that is completely unrelated to having a partner in his life. Shouldn't it be about doing stuff together or at least talking about it together? Has he always been like this? If the counsellor is saying he's pa and abusive, that says it all, really, because they don't usually come out with such clear statements.