DP dragging his heels about our future

[CarryOnDreaming]

I’ve been with DP for 3 years, living together for a little over half of that. I’m 35 and he’s 34 although we both feel younger than that at heart. We clicked from the word go – we have the same sense of humour, interests, plenty of chemistry, get on great with each others’ friends and trust each other completely. He’s held in high regard by colleagues, friends and family and is a truly lovely person. Great, I thought: FINALLY someone worth it on my wavelength!

When we first got serious and had the talk about out future, he said he envisaged us marrying in around 3 years and starting a family in around 5. I was 32 at the time and thought 37 might be pushing it to start TTC, but we’re both ambitious career-wise and told myself it might be just as well we got that side out our lives figured out first, as well as not rushing into things.

3 years on and there’s no sign of taking the relationship on to the next stage. I had a talk with him about the future in a non-pushy way and while he says he definitely still wants to marry me and have a family, it’s in abstract terms of “some day” as he doesn’t feel ready yet. He insisted that was no reflection on his feelings for me. The reasons he gave were 1) He’s overwhelmed by his demanding job and couldn’t see how planning a wedding / being a dad would fit into that right now 2) Our house isn’t big enough to accommodate a child and we can’t afford to move 3) He’d never considered settling down with anyone before me and while he thought becoming a dad was what he wanted, he now thinks he might have been in that mindset just because it’s what people do, and now he’s not 100% sure if he wants kids because life’s stressful enough and at present we have freedom to enjoy ourselves which alleviates that stress.

I’m a planner, whereas he prefers to go with the flow, but when it comes to my fertility, I don’t think he’s quite grasped, despite me explaining it to him, that it doesn’t quite work that way! He seems to see things back to front compared to me, ie: my solution to our house bursting at the seams with no room for a child would be to save up for an extension, whereas he says we can’t afford that (we could if we budgeted, but the thought of spending large sums of money on anything terrifies him) and then a year down the line he’ll still use the same excuse about the house not being big enough!

I love this man with all my heart. He’s not only my partner but my best friend. We have a really warm, affectionate loving relationship and I couldn’t imagine not sharing the rest of my life with him or wanting a family with anyone but him, but when I’m laying awake at night I worry that I’m going to look back at the age of 40 and nothing has changed and I’ll have missed the boat. I often wondered why such a charismatic, loyal, caring, funny person such as him hadn’t been snapped up before – perhaps it’s because he’s just too much of a Peter Pan? Or perhaps I just need to be patient and stop worrying so much? Opinions welcomed, thank you.

"because he is denied you your woman's right to have a family and children"

Dont be ridiculous. Nobody has a right to a family and children - what you have is the right to 'pursue' these things if you so wish. And furthermore, 'he' would not have denied her anything - she doesn't have any right to his progeny. If she stays with him and time runs out for her to conceive, she will have denied herself. No one else is to blame.

Just another thought - the older you are the more tired you will be. Just saying!

I think it sounds like he is not that interested in changing the status quo i.e. you live together but are not married and do not have kids.

My ex-fiance was like that...marriage and kids were discussed in a "some day" type of way. I took that to be a genuine commitment, but it wasn't. I am now 35 and single. I do hope I have another significant relationship one day, but I do not expect to have kids now. The odds are sort of stacked against me, after him having wasted my time for years.

However I'm not that bothered about kids. If I was, then I would look into ways of doing it solo now. If you are someone who really wants to be a mum, then you need to bring this to a head as soon as possible so that you know where you stand with him.

Everyone has the right to family and kids. It is up to them how to protect it from someone who deny it by misleading them. He should let her go. He knows if he wants kids or not, if it will be with her or not. COME ON! You paint men as having half a brain. It is not true. Most times they are smarter than us, because we involve too much emotion which blurs our view of the cold hard FACTS!

FedUpWithJudgementalPeople, it is not too late for you, if you are determined. But not with this defeatist attitude. You are effectively diminishing your chances by not believing it is possible. And, at 35, it is definitely possible!

Val I do object to you saying that women do not have a grasp of facts because they are too emotional. That is sexist nonense.

However I do agree that the DP should be honest about his intentions.

Val, yeah maybe.
Although I don't think I'm defeatist - just pretty realistic. The hard bit is finding someone you actually want to have children with I think. I don't want to fall in to the trap of 'settling' just so I can settle down.

You also have to take on board that at 35+ (you still have to get pregnant), this is considered an old mum and there will be more complications associated with age.

"He's said 100% he intends to propose to me, he just won't be led on when"

But those two statements are contradictory. If he was "100%" that he wanted to marry you and spend the rest of his life with you, he would have proposed already wouldn't he?

In your thirties, living together, been together 3 years, the only reason not to propose (or decided to get married as a joint decision, as though this was 2014 not 1954) is if you are actually not 100% sure. Because proposing doesn't cost any money, and neither does getting married, virtually, so there are no other reasons to wait.

And if he's not 100% sure after 3 years, that's a no, isn't it?

Men can be poorly informed/niave about womens fertility compared to women.

I must admit I had been when I was in my late twenties had originally had plans to have been married by 30's and have a family.

Had several umming and arring relationships where they gave up to be honest and the previous one which was with a woman 6-7 years older while i was in 30 I was just flaky, she couldn't hang on for ever, I made crap excuses about how travelling with work was barrier etc.

Finally realised had to get a grip and go for it, though for me didn't happen till mid to late thirties, DW is 6 years younger.

I feel for women as time can start to appear to run out quickly and you have to make tough decisions, eg 1-2 year dating/cohab - year engaged? Going back on dating scene is going to be same time frame unless you just charge into a RL and get knocked up and hope you can actually get on when the dust settles.

I'd agree with Unexpected

"Everyone has the right to family and kids."

Val, honestly you're talking rubbish. Unless you're physically able to produce the sperm and egg yourself and then incubate the blighter for 9 months, you don't have a right to the end product.

The OPs partner is not holding her back. She is holding herself back by choosing to stay with him in the uncertainty. I won't dignify the rest of what you say with a response.

BTW, I'm a man.

I agree, olathe.

Flowery I've made it clear I don't want a long engagement (been engaged before and that dragged on for 4 years and came to nothing) and it's highly unlikely we'd get married in the next year because we have at least 6 weddings of close friends coming up in that time and due to the nature of his work he's very limited on when he could take leave to get married. I'd be happy going down the registry office with just a handful of people, but that's never going to happen because he has a huge family.

So yes, I do believe he's 100% committed to marrying me. He's just one of those people who has to do things his own way and if I said, for example that I wanted to get engaged on our anniversary / my birthday / Valentine's day, etc, even if that was the time he had in his mind, he'd probably not do it then because he'd want it to be spontaneous. That's what I mean by he won' be led. (Frustrating, I know!)

His commitment around marriage is less of an issue to me than the question of starting a family.

I ended up in a similar position to you, with regards to children, with my ex. Having waited for ages and been strung along (having always been
100% open about my desire for children), we had the make your mind up, or that's it discussion. Now my ex then said he did want a dc and I fell pregnant relatively quickly. This could have been great but sadly my ex was horrified once I was pregnant and did not adjust well to being a parent at all. Hence him being my ex, he thoroughly resented our child and blamed me for everything.

However, very soon after having my dc, I discovered that I am unable to have more children due to an age related condition. All in all I'm relieved that I did have a dc then but it was a very difficult time in my life. I wish that I had taken heed of the warning signs earlier with my ex. He fobbed me off for so long and I just accepted it, believing what he told me. I was stupid and naive. It was never my ideal to be a single parent, but under the circumstances, I am lucky that I ended up with a dc at all. With hindsight, if even making a decision about having a child is fraught with difficulty, this is not a relationship to bring a child into.

Men can be poorly informed/niave about womens fertility compared to women.

I totally agree with this - until I sat him down and had a talk to him he genuinely thought women had no problem conceiving until they went through the menopause.

People do have the right to marry and found a family under article 12 ECHR actually.

It is correct to state that the op does not have the right to marry him or bear his children... Obviously...

I think it is a little ridiculous to be thinking you need to have a man to have a baby and also that you couldn't find someone better - that's not a reason to be with someone.

Of course having a baby while you are single might not be something you'd want, you might prefer to be with him and have no children but that'd be your choice because the option is there to have children alone.

I don't like this idea that you have that he is dragging his heels. People just don't do that. Yes you can disrespect what someone has said to you and try and bully them into doing what you want but this is not alright. Your friends all doing it doesn't make it alright either.

The idea you get to examine his reasons before you will allow him to have them is ridiculous too. He doesn't want children, it is nothing to do with the size of your house. He doesn't need to give you reasons just tell you how he feels and you have to tell him how you feel and respect each other.

I agree that you need to decide whether you want to leave and have children or be with him and have none. He might change his mind later but you can't take that risk.

quietlysuggests nails it for me. Great advice.

I think people on Mumsnet sometimes rush far too quickly to assume that a relationship is over because of a difference of opinion. If this were actually the case, no partnership would last more than a couple of months.

I also know a LOT of ambitious men (and some women) in their 30s who were terrified of the commitment that children entail. In all cases, the men were reluctant right up to the birth. In every case, however, they are amazing fathers - once the baby arrived, they took to it like a duck to water.

I think there is a feeling that you have to be 'ready' to have children, that at some level deep down you will just KNOW that it's the right time. In my experience, many people who have highly successful careers and highly rewarding lives outside of work don't actually feel that - and they worry that they are in some way unsuited to being parents as a result. That's absolute rubbish! It's simply that in your 30s, with a great lifestyle, it does involve quite a lot of change and an exchange of lovely things like long foreign holidays for the amazing, rewarding, frustrating and knackering experience of parenting. I think we also have extremely high expectations in terms of standards of living now, and a notion that parenting has to be extremely expensive, with each kid having huge amounts of space, expensive hobbies, designer clothes, toys, electronic goods etc... It doesn't have to work that way! My neighbours have the most lovely family life, and they've raised 3 extremely bright kids in a smallish 3 bed semi via state schools.

I think that you need to sit down and have a proper discussion with DP about this, at a time when you are not tired, drunk, or anxious. What's more, this needs not to be a 'one off' decision, but a process of starting to plan the next few years. His behaviour smacks of genuine evasion to me - he has probably been pushing this to the back of his mind because of the financial situation and vague concerns about parenthood, which he needs to confront in a supportive atmosphere.

I would just tell him that you want to have a baby now and don't want to wait around on the off chance you will be able to conceive easily in your forties. If he is not up for it I doubt he ever will be but at least you will know for sure before wasting more time on him.

No, ola-man, I have the right to the end product, because I can choose a man to impregnate me. The world does not end with one specific speciment (eg OP's beloved). There are 3 billion of them. What are the chances of failing in this mission? Big fat ZERO.

And the parter IS holding her back, by giving her FALSE hopes. As far as I can remember, this has a legal name or something - misrepresentation - was it? Can you please quote the law on this, Mr lawyer?

Or... let me:

Misrepresentation is a concept in contract law referring to a false statement of fact made by one party to another party, which has the effect of inducing that party into the contract. For example, under certain circumstances, false statements or promises made by a seller of goods regarding the quality or nature of the product that the seller has may constitute misrepresentation.

even if that was the time he had in his mind, he'd probably not do it then because he'd want it to be spontaneous. That's what I mean by he won' be led

So he's just a massively controlling arse then?! Why would you want to marry and have kids with someone like this?

It does piss me off that some people seem to be suggesting that men don't have the right to decide they don't want children if their female partner does just because women's fertility declines.

Most people who end up with pg that they didn't choose take care of and love the child - that doesn't make it ok to pressure or force someone into having said child.

Oh OP, your situation struck such a massive chord with me.

I have been in a very similar situation to yours. I still am in some ways.

I just wanted to jump in to mark my place, and then I'll answer more fully once I've read the full thread.

even if that was the time he had in his mind, he'd probably not do it then because he'd want it to be spontaneous. That's what I mean by he won' be led

Oh dear, that's worrying, are you sure 100% he wants to marry you???

Offred, fair enough point but women do have a shelf life when it comes to producing babies, fact - also, it's normally a natural progression in a relationship and a lovely one at that.

Or that men aren't capable of and shouldn't be expected to be able to make a decision for themselves about children.

More sexist bullshit tbh.