DP dragging his heels about our future

[CarryOnDreaming]

I’ve been with DP for 3 years, living together for a little over half of that. I’m 35 and he’s 34 although we both feel younger than that at heart. We clicked from the word go – we have the same sense of humour, interests, plenty of chemistry, get on great with each others’ friends and trust each other completely. He’s held in high regard by colleagues, friends and family and is a truly lovely person. Great, I thought: FINALLY someone worth it on my wavelength!

When we first got serious and had the talk about out future, he said he envisaged us marrying in around 3 years and starting a family in around 5. I was 32 at the time and thought 37 might be pushing it to start TTC, but we’re both ambitious career-wise and told myself it might be just as well we got that side out our lives figured out first, as well as not rushing into things.

3 years on and there’s no sign of taking the relationship on to the next stage. I had a talk with him about the future in a non-pushy way and while he says he definitely still wants to marry me and have a family, it’s in abstract terms of “some day” as he doesn’t feel ready yet. He insisted that was no reflection on his feelings for me. The reasons he gave were 1) He’s overwhelmed by his demanding job and couldn’t see how planning a wedding / being a dad would fit into that right now 2) Our house isn’t big enough to accommodate a child and we can’t afford to move 3) He’d never considered settling down with anyone before me and while he thought becoming a dad was what he wanted, he now thinks he might have been in that mindset just because it’s what people do, and now he’s not 100% sure if he wants kids because life’s stressful enough and at present we have freedom to enjoy ourselves which alleviates that stress.

I’m a planner, whereas he prefers to go with the flow, but when it comes to my fertility, I don’t think he’s quite grasped, despite me explaining it to him, that it doesn’t quite work that way! He seems to see things back to front compared to me, ie: my solution to our house bursting at the seams with no room for a child would be to save up for an extension, whereas he says we can’t afford that (we could if we budgeted, but the thought of spending large sums of money on anything terrifies him) and then a year down the line he’ll still use the same excuse about the house not being big enough!

I love this man with all my heart. He’s not only my partner but my best friend. We have a really warm, affectionate loving relationship and I couldn’t imagine not sharing the rest of my life with him or wanting a family with anyone but him, but when I’m laying awake at night I worry that I’m going to look back at the age of 40 and nothing has changed and I’ll have missed the boat. I often wondered why such a charismatic, loyal, caring, funny person such as him hadn’t been snapped up before – perhaps it’s because he’s just too much of a Peter Pan? Or perhaps I just need to be patient and stop worrying so much? Opinions welcomed, thank you.

I do need to sit him down and have another talk with him. Not good timing at the moment though as one of his relatives is dying, another has just been diagnosed with cancer and his car was stolen yesterday, so he's pretty stressed ATM….

If he knows about children then it is fairly safe to say he is not scared or reluctant or naive. He has an excellent basis on which to make an informed decision.

From what he has said; he doesn't want them now, he likes having things his way etc and from what you've said it seems highly likely that he doesn't want children and is just trying to avoid telling you.

However, no-one on the Internet can tell you how he feels only him. You need to outright ask him and then make your decision from there but please don't disrespect him or yourself by thinking you can convince him against his better judgement.

I think he just needs to be told, quite firmly, that the situation needs to be moved forward. No ultimatums at this stage (and there's no point issuing an ultimatum unless you're prepared to go through with it) just have a blunt conversation to establish how the land lies, and make it clear that at present, he's having everything his own way.

Until we can be sure that he definitely DOES NOT plan marriage and children in the forseeable future, I'm not sure how else we can advise the OP.

I can tell you one thing having an older parent is no fun, I lost my mum when I was only 39.

Not sure anyone can ever be sure. If he's minded to lie and manipulate he won't necessarily be honest. The extension thing is obviously bullshit so I'd expect more bullshit tbh.

OP - I agree that if his car has been stolen, then maybe delay your Big Conversation for a day or two. But if marriage and children is genuinely what he wants, then it shouldn't be a huge, difficult conversation. However, if you're not careful, you'll always be able to find a reason to put off the conversation - ill relatives, it's nearly Christmas, the porch is leaking etc etc. I get the impression that, understandably, you're a little reluctant to prod the situation in case you hear bad news?

What a surprise- there's too much going on in his life to talk about it at the moment.......

If he wants to get married badly enough, he'll make the time. And if he wants a baby badly enough, you'll find room in your house. But if he doesn't, then there will always be an excuse.

I think he just needs to be told, quite firmly, that the situation needs to be moved forward. No ultimatums at this stage (and there's no point issuing an ultimatum unless you're prepared to go through with it) just have a blunt conversation to establish how the land lies, and make it clear that at present, he's having everything his own way.

We had pretty much this exact conversation two months ago. He said he definitely intended to propose to me, wasn't quite ready yet and didn't want kids now, but wasn't ruling them out in the future. I said if he only telling me what I wanted to hear because he didn't want to upset me and he didn't want to marry me, definitely didn't want to have children then I'd rather he just be honest with me, but he insisted that wasn't the case.

However last week he was talking about the holidays he wants us to save up for in the future and I'm thinking: saving for a holiday is not my priority! Did I actually get through to you??!

Last night I was mulling it all over in my head and barely slept, hence posting today.

Hmmm, "not ruling kids out in the future" sounds a VERY long way from "let's TTC now". To me that sounds like an almost-no, not an almost-yes. Can you live with an almost-no?

I'm sorry that you and he are in such different places over this issue.

This is where the problem lies, you both want different things.

Whether he likes it or not he's going to have to give you a time to work on, i.e., in 2 or 3 years time, meaning you will be 37, 38 and will still have to get pregnant and I assume you'd like a baby by 40 so in essence he needs to give you at least that.

Honestly, it broke my heart losing my mum, she was 43 when she had me and my twin.

I hope I'm wrong but he's full of excuses cos it's not what he wants to do.

Right finally got through to the end of the thread.

OP I have been where you are right now. And I started a thread on it. And I had many of the same responses as you have had on here. And I've lived to tell the tale.

I'll tell you my back story. I was with someone for 3 years who was a total commitment phobe. Kept saying we'd get married 'some day'. In the end he walked out on me when I was 31, and I was left devastated but actually had a lucky escape (cos he was an arse). The reason I'm telling you this story is that some people upthread have said that your DP will dump you only to have a child straight away with some bimbo. That's what I thought would happen with my ex - but 5 years on, he's never even had a serious girlfriend, never mind any sign of having kids. So some men really are just commitment phobic.

Now on to my current DP and the subject of my own thread 2 years ago. I finally met the love of my life. So happy together I could barely believe my luck. He is divorced, so I understood that he wouldn't want to jump into marriage straight away. But then he told me that he'd had a vasectomy. He was adamant that he never wanted children.

I had to make the decision whether to stay with him and never have kids - or leave him at the age of 34 and take my chances.

He really is the love of my life, we are so happy together in every way - but I knew that if we never tried for DCs I would come to resent him and it would eat away at us and destroy our relationship anyway. But I was really careful not to push him into an ultimatum, because I didn't ever want to think that he was doing anything just because he was forced to.

So I ended up telling him that I loved him, I wanted us to have DCs and if he really couldn't commit to that, it would destroy us eventually so I might as well leave now while I have the chance to find someone else. I left him, and within a few days he came to his senses, realized how blinkered he was being and agreed to ttc. He had a vasectomy reversal a year ago, and we are now ttc just like any other normal couple.

While we were going over all of this, I went through everything you're going through. We loved our life, had great holidays, lots of freedom, and DP didn't want that to change. He sees lots of 'reluctant' fathers who don't seem happy, and he has a few single mates with no children who are happy. So he just couldn't see why he would change that. Once I explained to him that this is something I wanted with my whole heart and soul, and that we were so in love and happy together that it would be wonderful to create something that was a part of both of us, he started to come round. I explained that yes, our life would change, but it would change in wonderful ways that we can't even imagine.

I also talked to all of my married friends with children. Pretty much all of them said the same thing - that their DHs weren't really that fussed about having kids, sort of agreed to it in a 'yeah ok let's try' kind of way, then had a shock when it actually happened. In other words, there aren't many men out there who emphatically, enthusiastically throw themselves into desperately wanting kids. They're all wonderful fathers when it does happen, but their thought processes to get them to that point might be a little different.

Now obviously in your case you don't have the massive obstacle of a VR to get past. So what I would suggest to you is that you lay your cards on the table - explain to your DP how much you love him and want to create a family with him. Also explain that if he never agrees to it, it will cause resentment between you, and you don't want that to destroy what you have. And then explain that it could take up to a year to conceive anyway, so it's not like you're going to have an instant baby as soon as you agree to try.

As for the marriage thing - well I'm in the same boat as you there too. DP says he definitely wants to get married, but just can't think about it at the moment. I'm frustrated, but I'm not in any hurry to do it just yet either. As for those upthread saying this is 2014 and not 1950 and why don't you ask him yourself - yep, I've heard that one too. Well to me, the simple reason is that I've always dreamed of being proposed to. And i want it to be special. My sister 'told' her DH that they were getting engaged, and dragged him to a ring shop. 8 years down the line, she never stopped complaining that she never had a 'romantic proposal' and has ended up having an affair and leaving her DH. OK, I know that's not the normal situation, but that has heavily influenced me into thinking that if / when it happens for me, it will not be because I've pushed it in any way.

This person isn't just on a different page from you, he's reading a different book!

You talked, he gave you a vague answer and he's thinking holiday while you're thinking extension and baby.

The reality is that he is telling you the truth, he is not ready for the life you want right now and he may never be ready, he told you that.

There's nothing wrong with that, except it's not what you want or need just now.

You need to decide for yourself what's most important to you.

Dreaming - you really need to stop giving him any wriggle room.

"We had pretty much this exact conversation two months ago. He said he definitely intended to propose to me, wasn't quite ready yet and didn't want kids now, but wasn't ruling them out in the future."

This really is not the exact conversation others on this thread (including me) have suggested. We have suggested you, yes, that's you, the woman in the couple (not whatever disney prince charming you think you'd like to have as the man in the couple) sit him down and say "I am 35. I need to start TTC in the next 6 months. Will you marry me and start TTC?"

Are there any reasons why you feel that you can't say this?

At the risk of being very harsh (but you do sound like you need to be told bluntly): is it because you you are stuck in some sort of fairytale where you think he as the man should be doing the proposing? If you really think this way at the age of 35, you probably aren't mature enough to be considering parenthood. Is it because you think that he will say no and that will be the end of the relationship? If that's really the case, you need to have a long hard look at what your relationship amounts to, because if you really believe he thinks like this, then the relationship doesn't amount to much anyway.

A while ago the Observer problem page had a letter from a woman whose husband had strung her along for years with the 'maybe kids in the future' line and she was now 43 and he's definitely decided 'no'. It's here - I really think it's worth reading along with many of the reader comments, which were extremely helpful and based on similar experiences.

I think to summarize what I would do in your situation:

1. Lay all your cards on the table. You love him, this is what you want. TTC in 'a few years' isn't an option. Biological clocks are scary things.

1. Don't give him an ultimatum. If he folds and agrees, you'll never know if it is because you forced his hand. Rather, make up in your own mind what you want to do, and tell him this is how it is. If he really is just being a bit vague then this will be the wake up call that he needs.

is it because you you are stuck in some sort of fairytale where you think he as the man should be doing the proposing? If you really think this way at the age of 35, you probably aren't mature enough to be considering parenthood.

I don't agree with this. I am waiting for a proposal, and I'm 35 and definitely mature enough for parenthood. There's nothing wrong with waiting for a nice, memorable, romantic event that you will look back on for ever more - IF you are pretty sure it's on the cards and can afford to wait. I agree, if you have any doubt that he will ever do this, then it's probably not best to wait. But if you think he will, if he says he will, there's nothing 'disney princess' about wanting that.

I haven't read every page of this thread, but my thoughts on this is that he WILL have children one day if/when he gets to the stage that he really feels ready for them. If you cannot have children by that point, then he has the option to leave you if he chooses to do so and find someone younger.

You don't get that choice, so you have to act right now. You need to be starting to TTC in the immediate future, if you seriously want children. Therefore you need his cards on the table pronto.

If he doesn't want to TTC before you miss your fertility window, then you have to choose between staying with him and more likely than not remaining childless, or leaving him and finding someone else/a sperm donor.

At the end of the day, him being non-committal about this obviously isn't an option for you anymore. If he isn't going to be ready for children in the immediate future, he has to be honest and tell you NOW, so that you can make your choice.

You got through to him all right.

Don't wait - what everyone else on this thread has said will happen, will probably happen.

He is stringing you along.

It's a bit of a false argument to say, well, is it a good idea to leave a brilliant relationship at 35 and then perhaps not meet anyone and never have children anyway? Answer: yes, it IS a good idea. Because:

1. there is a huge risk here that this kind of guy - happy to basically thwart your life plans to suit his own - will wake up at 45 and decide he does want kids after all, and leave you for a 25 year old. The final chapter in a long process of basically fucking you over.

1. If you really want children, there is the option of sperm donation and IVF - possible to do alone, and possible to start new relationships afterwards without the pressure on.

1. If he strings you along until you can't conceive, it's more likely than anything that your relationship will be ruined by resentment anyway.

Nuttybiscuits thanks for posting. I actually read your thread at the time, in fact I think I may have even posted on it under a different name. I remember thinking how strong you were to leave and I was so relieved when your DP came to his senses and realised he wanted to ttc with you.

I'm on the same page as you when it comes to engagement. One of my friends told her DP exactly when and how she wanted him to propose to her and now complains that it wasn't romantic. I'm a big romantic and so is DP so it's important that the proposal feels special and not forced. Yes, it's 2014, why shouldn't I ask him myself etc - that may work for some, but it just wouldn't for me. Another of my friends did that and I'm not entirely convinced it was what he wanted, he just felt he couldn't say no.

"Lay your cards on the table - explain to your DP how much you love him and want to create a family with him. Also explain that if he never agrees to it, it will cause resentment between you, and you don't want that to destroy what you have." I think that's pretty much word for word what I intend to say to him actually.

Nutty - Well, it depends I guess on what you see marriage as achieving. Do you have a joint mortgage and want to know you'd get your fair share of the house if you split? Do you want to be the one who gets to make the decision about switching off life support in the event that your DP gets hit by a bus? If you're in the SE and own an average sized house, do you want to inherit that house without death duties in the event that DP gets hit by a bus? There are all sorts of very practical reasons for wanting to be married which might outweigh the desire for a romantic proposal at some unspecified time in the future.

I mean, I can see why you might have a little bit of a delay (I remember having to make reassuring noises to one of my friends who was worried her DP was reluctant to propose ... I knew that the DP had a big thing planned for Valentine's day in a month's time) but honestly, if you've supposedly both decided you want to get married (which to my mind, constitutes an engagement anyway - never have, even 30 odd years ago when I was a teenager, been able to get my head round the whole "getting engaged to get engaged" thing), and he knows that the big romantic down-on-one-knee thing matters, then if he doesn't pull his finger out and do it within a timeframe of about 6 months (allowing for the idea that there might be big events - like doing it on a beach in Bali or not wanting it to be overshadowed by a sibling's wedding, that might affect the timing) that is indicative of something not quite right.

CarryOn I'm glad you remember my thread - it had a Huge influence on me, quite overwhelming really. I felt I had to NC back and jump on here to offer you support - because I can see your thread going the same way mine did.

Please try and see through the negativity, and the negative comments from posters who claim to know just how your DP feels and what he's going to do. Of course no one can know that from reading your words. Only you know that.

Agree with that you said re engagement - I've seen too many 'forced' proposals and I want something special. There's nothing wrong with you wanting that too. And I'm like you - not too fussed about when it happens, ttc is more important at this stage for age reasons.

I really feel for you, for obvious reasons. Keep posting, and try and just pick out the posts that resonate best with your situation, and filter out the negatives. It took me a long time to learn that, but I've been on MN long enough now (under lots of different guises ) to learn not to take everything to heart.

'Also explain that if he never agrees to it, it will cause resentment between you, and you don't want that to destroy what you have." '

He already did agree to it, just not now.

That's the problem.

There's no time to dither about for the OP.

I'm on the same page as you when it comes to engagement. One of my friends told her DP exactly when and how she wanted him to propose to her and now complains that it wasn't romantic. I'm a big romantic and so is DP so it's important that the proposal feels special and not forced. Yes, it's 2014, why shouldn't I ask him myself etc - that may work for some, but it just wouldn't for me. Another of my friends did that and I'm not entirely convinced it was what he wanted, he just felt he couldn't say no.

BTW, my opinion is born out of decades of watching friends... As one friend (who is now very happily married) put it: "If I really am genuine when I say marriage doesn't matter to me, but I know that it would make DP very happy to be married, then I should get married in order to make him happy." My experience is that where one partner drags their heels for a protracted period, it is not because of a reluctance to get married, it is because they are not 100% about the particular relationship they're in (NB, not a gendered thing - I have watched it happen both ways round). I sincerely hope that OP is the exception that proves the rule, but I've seen too many cases of "I don't believe in marriage" turning out to translate as "I don't want to be married to you in particular" to be anything other than deeply cynical.