DD, counselling and unhappy ExH

[FushandChups]

Since my separation early last year, DD has been coping less and less and following the recent implementation of 50/50 care, seems to have got worse. I decided that i can't bear to see her so unhappy and after speaking with her teacher who has also seen a change, arranged to see the school nurse. This is to get some advice and ultimately, i would like to use this as a way to access some counselling for her. She is in reception.

H is absolutely adamant that this must not happen. He doesn't want me speaking to the nurse and if i do, she's not allowed to speak to anyone else. DD can talk to him (as its obviously me making her sad because she's fine when she's with him) but no way is she to talk to anyone else.

In brief, he doesn't want her labelled and no matter what i say about there being no possibility of her being labelled, it can only help her, she needs to talk to someone that is completely separate from the situation, he is stating it is not happening.

I don't know what to do other than just plough on as she is really hurting and i don't think me or him is enough for her at the moment. She needs some extra help in coping with what has happened but he is obsessed with this label issue.

He is her father so obviously has every right to say no but on this occasion, i think he is not looking at the big picture. I want DD to be happy with herself and her situation and think this could be a hugely helpful step.

Has anyone been through this with their DC post separation? Did it help them? Or should i just carry on, watching my DD just get sadder and sadder?

I wouldn't be surprised if his gf is egging him on. My ex changed when he met his gf and all of a sudden started slating my parenting. It was so obvious, and he admitted that she is insanely jealous of dd and I.

And I'm a stepmum to twice over so I'm not step-bashing.

Work out how you want to parent, what your instinct is telling you and just be confident that that is what's right for you and your dd. Get in touch with your gut feeling about what's ok with you and what isn't - and then just ignore him.

Dd was 7 when I left and she needed to come into bed with me at times. I think you are absolutely doing the right thing. She needs loads of reassurance right now.

If it's any help, i think co-sleeping is completely natural; my 8yr old DS has frequently asked to sleep in my bed since exdh moved out when DS was 6, i just figured "whatever makes him feel better" and thoughtnothing more of it. Donkeys years ago whole families slept together, i know loads of single parents who co-sleep with primary school aged kids. Apart from making them feel more secure, they also work out there's a space in mummy's / daddie's bed = cuddle opportunity. Plus they really warm it up for you on those cold winter nights!

covalone78 - thank you for sharing your story and helping me understand his motivations slightly more. He does think DD (and DS) are perfect - as they are, of course - and won't countenance that she might be struggling to cope with the consequences of his actions. The fact she's fine when she's with him, underlines it for him.

DD always starts the night in her own room but does normally end up in mine. I'm not going to leave her to cry as she is doing it for a reason and it can only hurt her more if i ignore surely. It has been over a year now though - is that long-term?

I think there's a lot to be said for a child who feels safe enough to show her sad emotions in front of a parent because they feel secure enough too; whereas the other parent who says "but they're fine with me" rather miss the point. Yes, they don't feel secure enough emotionally to express themselves, it's not that they're the super-ace parent and "you" must be the cause....

I think long term in your case is not about length of time but attitude.

It sounds like your DD is getting a lot of pressure from your ex and his GF- who by the way has NO FUCKING PLACE 'COUNSELLING' her. The poor thing must be so confused... You could maybe try a soothing night light? My DD has a turtle with stars on its back that project on the ceiling when you light it.
But if the poor thing is waking up in tears she clearly needs comfort. As I said before ignore him and do what YOU feel is right.

I was just thinking that if she goes to him in the night (did he say if she was crying?) then not all is well with him as he says. She may just have learnt not to express her sadness around them.

And I'd be telling him that the only people who can counsel a little girl are neutral people, not highly invested OW.

It's good if they get close, but she should not be the one your DD can rely on.

On the other hand, you can do a lot by allowing her to talk about things, including her fears and sadness without dismissing it or taking it personally or criticising your ex (not saying you are).
You can ask her to draw families, make up stories and so on, that will give you a glimpse of what goes on in her mind.

DD does have a night light (introduced at the beginning of the year) and is a little squirrel which does seem to calm her. And we always have a chat once the main light is off/bedtime stories are done about her day and how she's doing which is when she tells me things.

I agree that I don't want DD to not like the gf, she is a sizeable part of her life now so should feel happy, comfortable and willing to talk to her. But I do object to her talking to her about how DD feels about me!! Unbelievable.

Spoke to the school nurse and, with DH's consent, she is going to start spending half an hour with DD on a Monday to try and get her to talk about it. She said that what I am describing sounds like perfectly normal behaviour for someone who has been through what she has. She eased H's mind about her getting labelled (well, he accepted what she said) and hopefully this will be enough for DD to start expressing herself better.

H's parting shot was that he worries for my sanity and from what he's been hearing, he should just take the children - so that hasn't gone away but I can live with that, provided he doesn't go through with it. I am now obviously worried that when I go to get them on Sunday, he won't allow them to come home with me - but that's another battle for another day!

Saw DS when at the school nurse and he was clinging to me as we left saying he wanted to be with me - so have nice, snot covered jumper for work. Clearly, my DC are desperate to be away from me

I'm not surprised your DD feels like she can rely on you. :)

Threatening to take the DC is a common tactic used by abusers. My exH did it. And he ended up with skype contact.

You keep doing what you think is right for your DD.

Do you think ex and gf may have been saying something to the kids about them living with him all the time, or could they have overheard some discussions? My cousin used to get clingy and upset around the parent who was the current one he was about to be taken from (aunt and uncle took threatening to oust the other one in turns ) as he was scared of losing them.

I don't think so and can't imagine it but i would never have foreseen this week, tbh, so who knows?

I have worked full time since DD was 6m so i wondered if she was just making up for lost time as I'm obviously now around whenever she's not with H or at school. It does feel like its more than that now though.

Threatening to take the kids away from an unstable wife is a common tactic when they start to lose control. Smile and ignore.
The school nurse sounds great. Fingers crossed you get your happy, secure little girl back soon.

He's telling her that she'll come and live with him and won't see mummy, isn't he? He's making her keep it a secret?

His gf has been fed a pack of lies about how terrible you are, and he's going to do whatever it takes to get the kids taken off you full time.

You have to trust your instincts here! Go and speak to the HV and get some therapy for your dd, get outside help, and stop this 50/50 now. It's the root of this.

You need to intervene to help your dd, she's crying out for help here.

Hissy can you not see that if she were to stop the 50/50 now then she would be as bad as he is threatening to be?

No Qix, I see a little girl exhibiting extreme signs of stress and upset, and failing to deal with a situation that's been forced upon her by a controlling father and idiotic gf.

She's not coping, her teacher's worried and there are alarming signs at home.

Fush you are being told by this supposed man to go against all your instincts, he's gaslighting you and attempting to bully you, undermine you and isolate you from your dc.

He doesn't get to call the shots in your lives any more, and certainly not to the detriment of your dc health.

Let he co-sleep if she's worried, she's so little and needs the reassurance. If need be tell her that weekends are ok, but only x nights a week during school times.

Her father sounds to be trying to poison her thoughts and she's worried about losing you.

You need to get help for her, and to reassure her that you love her and are there for her.

She needs stability, and that's not with him for now.

It wasn't long ago that we were all open mouthed at the awful story of the woman on here who had to turn her ds over to a man that verbally abused him and physically/sexually assaulted him.

Granted that the severity isn't the same, but the signs are there that the current arrangements are causing extreme stress in you dd life.

Stipulate a couple of weeks off, to see if there are any changes for the better.

A decent parent will allow whatever it takes to stop their child suffering.

All evidence so far proffered points to the father in this instance not being invested at all in the wellbeing of his dd. More in point scoring and finger pointing.

This is a very worrying situation.

Exactly Hissy.

I won't stop the 50/50 for now as there is no evidence of the things you mention, Hissy.

All i see is a sad and needy little girl who needs some help adjusting to her new situation. I plan to keep a very close eye on her (and DS) over the coming weeks and see how we go.

Personally, I think H is moving and changing things too quickly for my children and has done since he's left but i can't tell him what to do in the same way he can't tell me (much as i want too!) There are red flags - I acknowledge this - but they are more around his treatment of me than DD and i think a lot of this stems from not wanting me to have any say.

BUT - i will fight to protect both my DC and if through counselling, anything like what you suggest comes out - i will take it further.

I just want the dust to settle, DD to get some help and move on myself. I saw my GP today which helped and have been referred so that will also help, i hope.

Fush w.r.t co-sleeping - my 3,5 and 7 year olds take turns swirling in and out of my bed over any given night, it's a rare night that I have the bed to myself. Luckily I have a superking for when all 3 are in at once! I am happy to allow them to do that for as long as they feel the need to, as it is completely natural for them to be close to their mummy whenever and for whatever reason they have woken up. I think for your ExH to say it is weird or damaging would make me think he is the one with issues! All the best with everything, I hope your little girl starts to feel a bit happier, I am glad you are starting to feel better yourself at least. It hopefully should all get easier soon.

Your second message is very heartfelt - thank you Hissy.

The nurse did say what DD is exhibiting is 'normal' in the circumstances and i will keep a very close eye. It is just an awful situation but i can't just impose my will - surely i am just as bad as him then?

That's why he said he left - i was the controlling and abusive one. I don't know as i have always been strong willed and decisive and didn't think these were bad things but this is why i think i will benefit from counselling too. Give me the power back?

And DD can sleep with me whenever she needs to - you've all removed my doubts on that front

My ex was abusive, when he left I was worried about my ds and if he'd need support. My HV said she'd help (up to 5yrs old, but more if you need it) AND our surgery has a child psychologist if need be.

He didn't need any therapy, because the situation when ex had left was a lot better than when he was with us. He was 5. We talked a lot about things and I told him that all his feelings are valid.

Your child is struggling and showing signs of an inability to cope. At 5, it's hard for them to express their feelings. Do you talk to her about how she feels? Ask her to draw pictures to show her feelings if it makes her feel better? Sometimes that can help them express themselves.

Don't allow your ex any input on your parenting. But do inform him that you'll be grateful if his gf confined her activities to her own life and not conducting inquisitions of your child about you, as it's inappropriate and intrusive. It also unsettles dd, and unacceptable.

Trust your instincts and keep talking to dd, let her know that you'll be there for her no matter what.

Some kids find this stuff harder than others, if the 50/50 is too fast for her, ask her what would be ok? She has a right to be asked her opinion, and be heard.

Ime those who accuse us of manipulation and control are describing themselves...

Sounds like him pissing off is the best thing that could have happened, he sounds awful!

I also told DS that if he needed to cry, that was ok too. I tell him everyday how proud I am of him, how much strength he's given me just by being him.

3 yrs on, he'll want to sleep in with me in a heartbeat. Any excuse!

Sometimes he "has a bad dream" (apparently) and I wake to a snoring little companion.. sometimes he can be really quiet...

Trust your instincts. You're a good mum. He's trying to undermine you. He won't succeed.
You've got mumsnet! :)

Did I read that ex was the primary carer before the split?

Only one person can know what you read, fifi.
But the OP did write that he was the sahp before the split.
So?

ExH was too. It doesn't make him an adequate parent or even the one who knows the child the best.

Being a bloke doesn't make him the worst parent either! I'm just thinking that DD went from spending most time with him to most time with her to equal time with both. She prob doesn't know if she's coming or going. I don't think changing arrangements again would help.

As the primary carer he could have had DD from the off. He let OP have residence which doesn't sound abusive to me, esp as he's actually keen on having DD. Though as a year has passed on sure that's different now.

OP has been told that DDs reaction is normal. Being a bloke he prob just sees intervention as unnecessary much as they generally don't go to the doctor etc themselves. That doesn't make him bad, they just have different styles.

Nobody is saying that being a bloke makes him a bad parent.
Not wanting his child to have external support does.